I see the mass leafleting campaign at our local stations was in full swing this morning - well done to all involved.
And well done Pat for braving the cold by the up platform - I would have stopped to properly say hello but was running (as usual!) for a train (which was late (as usual!)).
The Brockleydonians up the line have blogged this and the petition is here for those yet to sign: http://www.gopetition.com/online/30683.html
It's also alarming to note that a proposal to reinstate the SLL (and/or a Bell-Vic line) could threaten even more of our train services.
http://brockleycentral.blogspot.com/200 ... aches.html
Cuts to Southern trains
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digime2007
- Posts: 258
- Joined: 10 Sep 2007 18:26
- Location: Sydenhham
My apologies digime - I am sure that any backchat at Syd station yesterday is likely to have come from me.
Gaz - you are correct in saying that local politicians supporting the reinstatement of the South London Line or a new line from Bellingham to Victoria are threatening our local services.
Alex Feakes, who is standing as a candidate for Lewisham West for the Lib Dems, appears to be supporting both of these causes.
Perhaps Alex could let us know where he stands on this forum and whether he supports this local community or some other in south London.
Gaz - you are correct in saying that local politicians supporting the reinstatement of the South London Line or a new line from Bellingham to Victoria are threatening our local services.
Alex Feakes, who is standing as a candidate for Lewisham West for the Lib Dems, appears to be supporting both of these causes.
Perhaps Alex could let us know where he stands on this forum and whether he supports this local community or some other in south London.
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bigbadwolf
- Posts: 726
- Joined: 7 Jan 2008 21:21
- Location: Forest Hill and Sydenham
Yeah I agree. As an everyday commuter from Syd its pretty obvious the've got bigger priorities than people travelling from this particular part of London. It just isn't that important to them.bigbadwolf wrote:Southern are ..... The sooner people realise that these people don't want to reason with you, the sooner Sydenhams blood pressure will ease.
Trimmed by Admin
So no more direct services to Charing Cross and direct services round the loop to Victoria going too...
But all is ok, sometime next year we'll have London Overground services to Dockands and Shoreditch...
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Trawlerman
- Posts: 318
- Joined: 17 Sep 2009 13:56
- Location: Sydenham
The South London Line under threat is NOT the Crystal Palace Loop to Victoria but a seperate service which goes through Denmark Hill (north of us). Its closure is related to replacement by the next phase of the ELL and reductions of London Bridge platforms. Paradoxically saving the SLL may endanger more of Sydenham's services.
More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_South_London_Line
Admin
More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_South_London_Line
Admin
London Bridge will suffer from a shortage of platforms from 2012 when several will be lost to the building of another office block. Southern have said this will limit the number of trains that can service Sydenham. The closure of the ISLL will free up a little capacity at LB which hopefully will mean no decrease on the already limited service from December.
Admin
Admin
The logic is that in 2015 we will have Thameslink services taking people from Sydenham directly to Blackfriars and St Pancras.
From 2012-2015 we will see less trains especially during peak hours, although there are plans to make them longer to counteract this situation. This is much better planned than the cuts coming into force this December and next May which seem to be the result of bad communication by rail companies and poor planning.
From 2012-2015 we will see less trains especially during peak hours, although there are plans to make them longer to counteract this situation. This is much better planned than the cuts coming into force this December and next May which seem to be the result of bad communication by rail companies and poor planning.
Amazing - the petition is now at 2,230 signatures. Well done all those people up and down the line who have been leafletting at the crack of dawn in the wind and the rain! If you haven't already signed, here is the link: http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/opp ... tures.html
This story has also been picked up by a new e-newspaper that follows the progress of the ELL:
http://www.eastlondonlines.co.uk/2009/1 ... commuters/
http://www.eastlondonlines.co.uk/2009/1 ... commuters/
Perhaps I'm just thick but I feel confused.
By that I mean I am not normally in a muddle but I am not entirely sure how these plans actually stack up. I might have to create a mock 'long term timetable' and cross-reference this with the existing Southern timetable.
I did have a mooch [?] around the site Gaz and one lady has posted that for many the ELL into the Docklands (talking old money by referring to it as ELL) will benefit her and many others...and I can see her point. A great many people used to get off at New Cross Gate to change for the ELL before it was closed for expansion. Given the moves being made to re-gentrify Sydders then surely there'll be even more demand for the Docklands once we become even more attractive (connections wise and amenities wise)? Yes/No?
Personally I'd rather not lose the Charing X service especially later in the evening or at the weekends but changing at L. Bridge in the evening is no different to my morning commute anyway.
Or am I missing the point?
I'd really appreciate if someone could create a pros/cons of the long-term changes for me. In laymans terms for us who don't really understand things like capacity/demand modelling on railways.
By that I mean I am not normally in a muddle but I am not entirely sure how these plans actually stack up. I might have to create a mock 'long term timetable' and cross-reference this with the existing Southern timetable.
I did have a mooch [?] around the site Gaz and one lady has posted that for many the ELL into the Docklands (talking old money by referring to it as ELL) will benefit her and many others...and I can see her point. A great many people used to get off at New Cross Gate to change for the ELL before it was closed for expansion. Given the moves being made to re-gentrify Sydders then surely there'll be even more demand for the Docklands once we become even more attractive (connections wise and amenities wise)? Yes/No?
Personally I'd rather not lose the Charing X service especially later in the evening or at the weekends but changing at L. Bridge in the evening is no different to my morning commute anyway.
Or am I missing the point?
I'd really appreciate if someone could create a pros/cons of the long-term changes for me. In laymans terms for us who don't really understand things like capacity/demand modelling on railways.
Here you are:
Good news
1. Transport for London (TfL) are already running the stations between East Croydon and London Bridge. This means that all local stations, including Sydenham, are now staffed throughout the day “from first to last train” meaning a far safer and more secure environment for passengers.
2. TfL plan a complete refurbishment of Sydenham station including new indicator boards, increased CCTV and new tannoy system.
3. Lewisham council are currently consulting on a £320,000 renovation of Sydenham Station Approach which will greatly improve access to the station.
4. On January 2 2010, Oystercard PAYG will be introduced on all suburban metropolitan train lines. And before the end of 2011, all platforms along the line will be lengthened so that 10 carriage (rather than 8 carriage) trains can be accommodated.
5. In May 2010, the long-anticipated East London Line will start, giving us 8 trains per hour in each direction between Dalston Junction in the north and West Croydon and Crystal Palace in the south.
6. Finally, in 2015, our line will become part of the Thameslink service, so that four trains per hour which currently terminate at London Bridge will instead continue through north London giving direct trains from Sydenham to key destinations such as Blackfriars, Farringdon and St Pancras International (for the Eurostar).
Bad News
1. At the end of the year, direct services to and from Charing Cross are to be axed – all trains will start and terminate at London Bridge.
2. In May 2010, off-peak and evening services to and from London Bridge will be cut by one third – from 6 trains per hour to 4 trains per hour.
Why you should be concerned:
1. If you travel to and from London B (and 70% of passengers will continue to do so after May 2010) your off peak and evening trains will be cut by one third.
2. If you want to catch direct trains late evening from CX, you won’t be able to after December.
3. From 2012-15, work on the Thameslink project at LB will inevitably mean our services to LB will come under strong pressure for cuts since platform space will be at a premium. Fight for a good service to LB and CX now - there are likely to be cuts in the offing soon, I'm afraid.
4. The good news above is by no means a “done deal”. A very strong campaign has started in the Peckham/East Dulwich area to scupper our gains. South London line campaigners wishing to reinstate the “inner” loop line via Peckham Rye and Denmark Hill are pressing to have our loop line axed so their line can go ahead. They are very well connected, have the whole of London Bridge Hospital and King’s rooting for them and have a near 3,000 signed petition. If they succeed, it would mean further cuts in services to LB and no trains from Sydenham to Victoria.
Please, please don’t underestimate this opposition campaign. It is a deadly serious battle over scarce resources - and we need to win that battle. If you haven’t already done so, sign the on-line petition.
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/opp ... -hill.html
Good news
1. Transport for London (TfL) are already running the stations between East Croydon and London Bridge. This means that all local stations, including Sydenham, are now staffed throughout the day “from first to last train” meaning a far safer and more secure environment for passengers.
2. TfL plan a complete refurbishment of Sydenham station including new indicator boards, increased CCTV and new tannoy system.
3. Lewisham council are currently consulting on a £320,000 renovation of Sydenham Station Approach which will greatly improve access to the station.
4. On January 2 2010, Oystercard PAYG will be introduced on all suburban metropolitan train lines. And before the end of 2011, all platforms along the line will be lengthened so that 10 carriage (rather than 8 carriage) trains can be accommodated.
5. In May 2010, the long-anticipated East London Line will start, giving us 8 trains per hour in each direction between Dalston Junction in the north and West Croydon and Crystal Palace in the south.
6. Finally, in 2015, our line will become part of the Thameslink service, so that four trains per hour which currently terminate at London Bridge will instead continue through north London giving direct trains from Sydenham to key destinations such as Blackfriars, Farringdon and St Pancras International (for the Eurostar).
Bad News
1. At the end of the year, direct services to and from Charing Cross are to be axed – all trains will start and terminate at London Bridge.
2. In May 2010, off-peak and evening services to and from London Bridge will be cut by one third – from 6 trains per hour to 4 trains per hour.
Why you should be concerned:
1. If you travel to and from London B (and 70% of passengers will continue to do so after May 2010) your off peak and evening trains will be cut by one third.
2. If you want to catch direct trains late evening from CX, you won’t be able to after December.
3. From 2012-15, work on the Thameslink project at LB will inevitably mean our services to LB will come under strong pressure for cuts since platform space will be at a premium. Fight for a good service to LB and CX now - there are likely to be cuts in the offing soon, I'm afraid.
4. The good news above is by no means a “done deal”. A very strong campaign has started in the Peckham/East Dulwich area to scupper our gains. South London line campaigners wishing to reinstate the “inner” loop line via Peckham Rye and Denmark Hill are pressing to have our loop line axed so their line can go ahead. They are very well connected, have the whole of London Bridge Hospital and King’s rooting for them and have a near 3,000 signed petition. If they succeed, it would mean further cuts in services to LB and no trains from Sydenham to Victoria.
Please, please don’t underestimate this opposition campaign. It is a deadly serious battle over scarce resources - and we need to win that battle. If you haven’t already done so, sign the on-line petition.
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/opp ... -hill.html
Are they? Recently I have been catching the 0601 from Sydenham in a Croydon direction. Sydenham station staff get off the 0558 departure for London Bridge, which I believe is the 2nd train in the morning that heads that way....nasaroc wrote:1. Transport for London (TfL) are already running the stations between East Croydon and London Bridge. This means that all local stations, including Sydenham, are now staffed throughout the day “from first to last train” meaning a far safer and more secure environment for passengers.
I have just signed the online petition. Anyone else reading this thread who has not yet done so I implore them to take a minute to do the same. Even if they don't use the Victoria loop regularly it's a very handy link - particularly in the evenings and weekends.
As for your reply, thank you nasaroc.
It was the Thameslink bit that was confusing me. I (stupidly) thought that would mean an extra 4 trains per hour for us...silly me.
A bit of a mixed bag then? Not sure 4 & 8 would be the correct split for off-peak and evenings. I'd have thought 6 & 6 would be the true requirement.
As for your reply, thank you nasaroc.
It was the Thameslink bit that was confusing me. I (stupidly) thought that would mean an extra 4 trains per hour for us...silly me.
A bit of a mixed bag then? Not sure 4 & 8 would be the correct split for off-peak and evenings. I'd have thought 6 & 6 would be the true requirement.
Sadiq Kham (MP for Tooting) snubs Jim Dowd over cuts:
http://www.southlondon-today.co.uk/tn/N ... gn%20'snub'
To complete the gloom here is a protest at South London Businesses being taxed to finance Crossrail which is of no benefit to us and at the cost of South London projects such as Tramlink to Crystal Palace:
http://www.thisiscroydontoday.co.uk/lat ... ticle.html
Admin
http://www.southlondon-today.co.uk/tn/N ... gn%20'snub'
To complete the gloom here is a protest at South London Businesses being taxed to finance Crossrail which is of no benefit to us and at the cost of South London projects such as Tramlink to Crystal Palace:
http://www.thisiscroydontoday.co.uk/lat ... ticle.html
Admin
Got to say admin that looks awfully lazy journalism; saying that campaigners are "furious" over "snub". If they were so furious you think they would have provided a quote to that effect. And "The Department for Transport yesterday said the letter had been forwarded to transport minister Chris Mole and a reply should come soon" doesn't sound much of a "snub" to me; more a case of pending a response.
In other words the story should have read; campaigners sent a letter (which the paper probaly reported at the time) and are awaiting a response. Not as as sensational but nearer the truth.
In other words the story should have read; campaigners sent a letter (which the paper probaly reported at the time) and are awaiting a response. Not as as sensational but nearer the truth.