Don't worry maestro. I may be ignorant in regards cars but I am not stupid enough to be taken in by Messrs Clarkson, Hammond et al's spiel.
BTW, can I possessive apostrophe a persons opinion...?
Anyway, I recycle the 'In Gear' section of The Sunday Times only once I've read what sector of society Jeremy has offended lately.
I heartily commend you sir for your efforts. True, the gas-guzzling section of society will abhor your sensible and environmental stance. But then as my GrandFather would often lament "it's not how fast it can get from 0-60...it's how fast it can bloody stop!". After all, how often does one drive over 70odd MPH?
Where I to buy a car I would, as with yourself, focus on CO2 emmisions and MPG but I would know I am in a minority. So long as I was doing MY bit though.
Selfish Parkers in Tannsfeld Road
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DerBrenster
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 25 Oct 2008 23:17
- Location: SE26 6XX
"The best option currently available IMO, is what I currently drive. It's silent much of the time below 30mph, returns 55-65 mpg, no congestion charge, £15 road tax, five seats, has automatic and cruise control, a great car either in city traffic or for doing long distances (I've just covered 2100 miles in the last two weeks having driven to Sutherland and back). Any ideas what it is?"
Yes I know - it's a Smug Mobile!
Twenty thousand quid to purchase, a huge amount of energy to manufacture and ship from Japan, posessing a very large battery unit which contains some very nasty chemicals and which will cost a couple of thousand pounds to replace after three or four years.
But that's ok, because you can sell it before that happens and consume even more of the world's resources on another new one! Very healthy for the national balance of trade too!
Remember that more than 50% of the energy consumed by a vehicle in it's lifetime comes about during it's original production and distribution. A fact conveniently forgotten by the Smugs. But one carefully concealed by the vested interests who want you to buy their newly manufactured goods.
IMO, there are already 26 million cars on the road in the UK and the scrapping of old ones which still have plenty of life in them, to be replaced by supposedly more efficient ones is the real scandal.
I drive a 10 year old V8 Jag. It does 15MPG in town. BUT I only do 3000 miles a year. It cost me two grand. It's been faultless for a year, Insurance is cheap because of it's age. It's super safe and ultra comfortable.
The eco-nutters would assume that I'm the gross polluter. But alongside a Prius doing the national average of 12000 miles per year, I'm a paragon of virtue and a friend to nature. Because I re-use and maintain. Not consume and dispose.
Bit off the original thread I know. Sorry. The woman sounds a nutter and I'm parking the Jag there for sure next time I go to Somerfield!
And silence isn't necessarily a virtue either from a pedestrians perspective either.
Yes I know - it's a Smug Mobile!
Twenty thousand quid to purchase, a huge amount of energy to manufacture and ship from Japan, posessing a very large battery unit which contains some very nasty chemicals and which will cost a couple of thousand pounds to replace after three or four years.
But that's ok, because you can sell it before that happens and consume even more of the world's resources on another new one! Very healthy for the national balance of trade too!
Remember that more than 50% of the energy consumed by a vehicle in it's lifetime comes about during it's original production and distribution. A fact conveniently forgotten by the Smugs. But one carefully concealed by the vested interests who want you to buy their newly manufactured goods.
IMO, there are already 26 million cars on the road in the UK and the scrapping of old ones which still have plenty of life in them, to be replaced by supposedly more efficient ones is the real scandal.
I drive a 10 year old V8 Jag. It does 15MPG in town. BUT I only do 3000 miles a year. It cost me two grand. It's been faultless for a year, Insurance is cheap because of it's age. It's super safe and ultra comfortable.
The eco-nutters would assume that I'm the gross polluter. But alongside a Prius doing the national average of 12000 miles per year, I'm a paragon of virtue and a friend to nature. Because I re-use and maintain. Not consume and dispose.
Bit off the original thread I know. Sorry. The woman sounds a nutter and I'm parking the Jag there for sure next time I go to Somerfield!
And silence isn't necessarily a virtue either from a pedestrians perspective either.
I never dreamt that a simple subject could create so many posts in so short a time
Tannsfeld never been in the news so much since our famed council incorrectly spelt the street name Tannsfield. Our local Germanic population rose up as one to decry this anglisation of the name. Lewisham Council gave way and remade the signs.
Thought best to go of at a tangent as most others posters have and this poor lady has been insulted left right and centre. Perhaps some of the posters will get old.
Tannsfeld never been in the news so much since our famed council incorrectly spelt the street name Tannsfield. Our local Germanic population rose up as one to decry this anglisation of the name. Lewisham Council gave way and remade the signs.
Thought best to go of at a tangent as most others posters have and this poor lady has been insulted left right and centre. Perhaps some of the posters will get old.
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Trawlerman
- Posts: 318
- Joined: 17 Sep 2009 13:56
- Location: Sydenham
I don't like many 'old posters'. I'm afraid the print is often faded, they sag and get a bit damp, frayed and soggy, the wording of text is sometimes antiquated and often twee and they never conform to the ASA's rules.
Remember the old posters for 'Benson and Hedges'?
Love the art work ...terrible message!!
They even used poor old George V to advertise tea!!
Would they have used the old Queen Mum to advertise gin?
Or Princess Margaret to advertise fags?
Perish the thought!!
Remember the old posters for 'Benson and Hedges'?
Love the art work ...terrible message!!
They even used poor old George V to advertise tea!!
Would they have used the old Queen Mum to advertise gin?
Or Princess Margaret to advertise fags?
Perish the thought!!
And when DerBrenster becomes an old poster, he'll be looking smug in one of these.......... 
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArtic ... ?AR=239500
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArtic ... ?AR=239500
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DerBrenster
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 25 Oct 2008 23:17
- Location: SE26 6XX
That's certainly a nice looking Jag but I won't be able to afford it until 2024 and, like I said, these hybrid cars have a nasty sting in their tail in the form of incredibly expensive (and very un-eco) batteries which last five years if you're lucky.
So old ones will get scrapped even quicker and/or the cost of motoring in the future will rocket because of that.
As someone said - once they've sussed out how to economically liquify and store the most plentiful thing in the universe (hydrogen), then we'll all be able to buzz around in our water expelling vehicles with a clear conscience.
And park them in Tannsfeld Road - although by then the council are bound to have introduced a revenue earning parking permit scheme....
So old ones will get scrapped even quicker and/or the cost of motoring in the future will rocket because of that.
As someone said - once they've sussed out how to economically liquify and store the most plentiful thing in the universe (hydrogen), then we'll all be able to buzz around in our water expelling vehicles with a clear conscience.
And park them in Tannsfeld Road - although by then the council are bound to have introduced a revenue earning parking permit scheme....
The one I drive has an 8 year/100,000 mile hybrid warranty so if the batteries fail as you say they will, it's entirely at Toyota's expense. I don't think they would be offering such a warranty if that were the case. They've been around for 12 years now and the technology is well proven, Canadian Prius taxi's have covered over 400,000km with minimal maintenance. Odd how the Prius won the UK J D Power survey for customer satisfaction and reliability if they are actually so dreadfully unreliable.DerBrenster wrote:That's certainly a nice looking Jag but I won't be able to afford it until 2024 and, like I said, these hybrid cars have a nasty sting in their tail in the form of incredibly expensive (and very un-eco) batteries which last five years if you're lucky.
http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/jd-powe ... ers/232612
Odd that many manufacturers are collectively investing billions developing hybrids, Mercedes and BMW have just launched them in Europe, many more are on the way.
Next time you fill your Jag with fuel at (currently) £4:82 per gallon, on which you can travel 15 miles in traffic (even that's quite good, my last XJ did 10!), you might realise a car that can travel 55 miles per gallon, even when in traffic, can actually make some sense.
You are also totally wrong about the environmental issues concerning the batteries. They are designed to last the life of the car (about 15 years), and when a Prius is scrapped, Toyota recover and recycle the battery components. Just because Clarkson says that scrapping a Prius does more damage to the planet than decommissioning an old Soviet nuclear powered sub, doesn't mean he is right!
As for "a huge amount of energy to ship from Japan", that is not unique to the Prius, that would apply to all cars shipped from Japan. So if a Prius shouldn't come from Japan, then what about Japanese car plants here in the UK? Toyota, Nissan and Honda employ thousands of British workers, and export cars. Toyota, for example, are about to start making a hybrid version of their Auris model at their Burnaston plant in Derbyshire, which, wait for it, will be shipped to Japan and sold over there. So that shouldn't be allowed, should it? And if that rule applies to them, then it'll have to apply to Jaguar and Land Rover too. And if we can't ship cars anywhere, then what about shipping car parts? Even your 10 year old Jaguar would have had many parts manufactured outside the UK and shipped here, that's how manufacturing works. But then if we can't ship cars or their parts, should we be shipping anything anywhere? Lets not import or export anything, is that what you advocate? Your argument isn't very rational DerBrenster, is it?
Last edited by maestro on 7 Nov 2009 10:09, edited 1 time in total.
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DerBrenster
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 25 Oct 2008 23:17
- Location: SE26 6XX
I see you've been Googling "Cost of replacement Prius Batteries" and probably consulting your warranty. Did I worry you?
I found the Canadian taxi story too. The car was only a couple of years old. Lots of other horror stories to be found about batteries which fail after five or more years, and the ones outside of the warranty period which cost more than the car is worth to replace. Seems a replacement unit for a 2002 Prius is now "only" $3500. Wow.......
Which is precisely my point. I just sold a 33 year old Triumph which was then driven to the west of Ireland and lives on through careful upkeep. Your Prius will be on the heap in less than 10 years. Very un-eco indeed dontcha think?
Petrol/Electric Hybrid technology may be "well proven" but it's actually an engineering bodge and one which incurs a significant ecological overhead of it's own that, as I pointed out, the smugs ignore (or are too simple and/or gullible to understand) and which the manufacturers don't want to talk about.
And if you want to bring JDPower into it, (I don't remember criticising the Prius's overall reliability) Jags top the reliability ratings in the US - I read that last week in the New York Times on my way back from Seattle (on a very un-eco Boeing 747)...
There's actually very few unreliable cars these days - in fact, it's those other Smug Mobiles - BMW's - which break down a lot more than you'd expect.
When I was younger, I trained as an Electrical Engineer. There are two types of cells. Primary and Secondary. Primaries are used, decay and are thrown away. Secondaries (like in your Prius) are indeed rechargable but are NOT infinitely so - normally 1000 cycles - and are guaranteed to decline in efficiency over their lifespan. You'll find that through Google too. There is no magic formula here. Electric cells decay.
And of course the major manufacturers are jumping on the bandwagon. They have no choice but to seek more efficient vehicles because Euro legislators are putting them under pressure to do so. It also works in their favour of course because they get you to buy their expensive new products.
If I wanted fuel efficiency, I'd buy a small engined car. But I avoid the sheep like mentality displayed by the eco-brigade, avoid jumping on the latest bandwagon and use my intelligence to work out what's best for my personal circumstances.
Your Prius may be absolutely the right thing for yours - but don't start lecturing others about how green you are when the fact is that you're as gross a polluter as everyone else. Just in a different way.
And one more thing -I know it's in the eye of the beholder, but the first Prius was pug ugly, the second gen not much better and the latest one still looks gawky from most angles. Maybe those sharp angles are designed to dissipate the smugness coming from within
I found the Canadian taxi story too. The car was only a couple of years old. Lots of other horror stories to be found about batteries which fail after five or more years, and the ones outside of the warranty period which cost more than the car is worth to replace. Seems a replacement unit for a 2002 Prius is now "only" $3500. Wow.......
Which is precisely my point. I just sold a 33 year old Triumph which was then driven to the west of Ireland and lives on through careful upkeep. Your Prius will be on the heap in less than 10 years. Very un-eco indeed dontcha think?
Petrol/Electric Hybrid technology may be "well proven" but it's actually an engineering bodge and one which incurs a significant ecological overhead of it's own that, as I pointed out, the smugs ignore (or are too simple and/or gullible to understand) and which the manufacturers don't want to talk about.
And if you want to bring JDPower into it, (I don't remember criticising the Prius's overall reliability) Jags top the reliability ratings in the US - I read that last week in the New York Times on my way back from Seattle (on a very un-eco Boeing 747)...
There's actually very few unreliable cars these days - in fact, it's those other Smug Mobiles - BMW's - which break down a lot more than you'd expect.
When I was younger, I trained as an Electrical Engineer. There are two types of cells. Primary and Secondary. Primaries are used, decay and are thrown away. Secondaries (like in your Prius) are indeed rechargable but are NOT infinitely so - normally 1000 cycles - and are guaranteed to decline in efficiency over their lifespan. You'll find that through Google too. There is no magic formula here. Electric cells decay.
And of course the major manufacturers are jumping on the bandwagon. They have no choice but to seek more efficient vehicles because Euro legislators are putting them under pressure to do so. It also works in their favour of course because they get you to buy their expensive new products.
If I wanted fuel efficiency, I'd buy a small engined car. But I avoid the sheep like mentality displayed by the eco-brigade, avoid jumping on the latest bandwagon and use my intelligence to work out what's best for my personal circumstances.
Your Prius may be absolutely the right thing for yours - but don't start lecturing others about how green you are when the fact is that you're as gross a polluter as everyone else. Just in a different way.
And one more thing -I know it's in the eye of the beholder, but the first Prius was pug ugly, the second gen not much better and the latest one still looks gawky from most angles. Maybe those sharp angles are designed to dissipate the smugness coming from within
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DerBrenster
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 25 Oct 2008 23:17
- Location: SE26 6XX
Ah - I see you dipped in and added a couple of paragraphs at the end while I was replying.
I'm perfectly rational. I think Clarkson is a tosser. And I'm not against trade or manufacturing as long as it's balanced - which if you consult the UK's trade deficit figures, it's not. Well done for messing that up even further.
My point is mainly that Hybrid drivers like you consider themselves superior (Re: Your original comment) and my view is that actually they're not and they need to be taken down a peg or two. Which is why I'm persisting with you.
I personally suspect that a lot of "Greenwash" is nonsense. Climate Change has been going on for 4.5 Billion years. Discuss!!! Incoveniently, the hottest year in the past 50 was 1998 and it's been cooling since (let's not go there today) but equally oil is a finite resource so we should not be profligate with it.
Toyota recycling (very) expensive batteries is all very well but what about the pollution caused by manufacturing in the first place? The chemicals used in producing hybrid batteries has generated extra pollution in the manufacture of that type of car. That's undeniable. So don't try.
I can see that those who have invested their money and reputation into driving a Smug Mobile would want to defend their position and rationale until they were blue in the face but I've made my point now and am going to going and rev my engine and burn some hydrocarbons, just to annoy them. Cheers!
I'm perfectly rational. I think Clarkson is a tosser. And I'm not against trade or manufacturing as long as it's balanced - which if you consult the UK's trade deficit figures, it's not. Well done for messing that up even further.
My point is mainly that Hybrid drivers like you consider themselves superior (Re: Your original comment) and my view is that actually they're not and they need to be taken down a peg or two. Which is why I'm persisting with you.
I personally suspect that a lot of "Greenwash" is nonsense. Climate Change has been going on for 4.5 Billion years. Discuss!!! Incoveniently, the hottest year in the past 50 was 1998 and it's been cooling since (let's not go there today) but equally oil is a finite resource so we should not be profligate with it.
Toyota recycling (very) expensive batteries is all very well but what about the pollution caused by manufacturing in the first place? The chemicals used in producing hybrid batteries has generated extra pollution in the manufacture of that type of car. That's undeniable. So don't try.
I can see that those who have invested their money and reputation into driving a Smug Mobile would want to defend their position and rationale until they were blue in the face but I've made my point now and am going to going and rev my engine and burn some hydrocarbons, just to annoy them. Cheers!
[quote="DerBrenster" 7 Nov 23:27] And if you want to bring JDPower into it, (I don't remember criticising the Prius's overall reliability) [quote]
quote:- DerBrenster 5 Nov 2009 21:45
possessing a very large battery which contains some very nasty chemicals and which will cost a couple of thousand pounds to replace after three or four years.
quote:- DerBrenster 6 Nov 2009 21:21
these hybrid cars have a nasty sting in their tail in the form of incredibly expensive (and un-eco) batteries that will last five years if you're lucky.
quote:- Maestro 6 Nov 2009 22:45
The one I drive has an 8 year/100,000 mile hybrid warranty so if the batteries fail as you say they will, it's entirely at Toyota's expense.
(totally unacknowledged by DerBrenster -"That's undeniable. So don't try")
This thread has now gone rather off topic. I'd love to have a sensible discussion with anyone who wants to debate cars anytime in the Town Pub, but as for this one, I'm clearly up against someone who would argue vehemently that Gary Glitter has for the last twenty years played left midfield for Hamilton Academicals, dontcha think?
quote:- DerBrenster 5 Nov 2009 21:45
possessing a very large battery which contains some very nasty chemicals and which will cost a couple of thousand pounds to replace after three or four years.
quote:- DerBrenster 6 Nov 2009 21:21
these hybrid cars have a nasty sting in their tail in the form of incredibly expensive (and un-eco) batteries that will last five years if you're lucky.
quote:- Maestro 6 Nov 2009 22:45
The one I drive has an 8 year/100,000 mile hybrid warranty so if the batteries fail as you say they will, it's entirely at Toyota's expense.
(totally unacknowledged by DerBrenster -"That's undeniable. So don't try")
This thread has now gone rather off topic. I'd love to have a sensible discussion with anyone who wants to debate cars anytime in the Town Pub, but as for this one, I'm clearly up against someone who would argue vehemently that Gary Glitter has for the last twenty years played left midfield for Hamilton Academicals, dontcha think?
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Trawlerman
- Posts: 318
- Joined: 17 Sep 2009 13:56
- Location: Sydenham
Not lucky, really. More like deluded?
No getting away from the obvious fact that there are far too many cars on London's roads. Cars parked on roads [both sides...almost bumper to bumper] make roads narrower. Selfish idiots who 'wait' in their motors as though double-parked on narrow roads make life even more difficult for everybody else [driving] trying to get by...
Asphalt / concrete drives are bad for flooding...[Sorry. End of rant]
No getting away from the obvious fact that there are far too many cars on London's roads. Cars parked on roads [both sides...almost bumper to bumper] make roads narrower. Selfish idiots who 'wait' in their motors as though double-parked on narrow roads make life even more difficult for everybody else [driving] trying to get by...
Asphalt / concrete drives are bad for flooding...[Sorry. End of rant]
You all seem to have enjoyed the oppotunity of taking the p@@s out of some poor old lady who objects to people parking outside her house.
Have you even considered that it might be the noise and the fumes of constantly changing vehicles that she may object to?
My mother suffered with lung desease and the fumes from cars would make her life a misery when she was alive.
Where I live we have many many learner drivers being shown the ropes, fair enough they have to learn but the fumes from the cars is quite strong sometimes, now i'm not that old and lucky me I don't have lung desease but I can understand someone not wanting it outside their home, also the noise can be intrusive.
Go on blast me!
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Trawlerman
- Posts: 318
- Joined: 17 Sep 2009 13:56
- Location: Sydenham
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Trawlerman
- Posts: 318
- Joined: 17 Sep 2009 13:56
- Location: Sydenham
crazy lady
Ok - things are taking a slightly more sinsiter turn now - greyhound lady turned up banging on my door this morning - and when I say banging, I thought my neighbour had a huge hammer out and was trying to bring down the front door.
I unfortunately opened the door and she began some rant about my parking outside her house and carried on regardless when I pointed out that my car was actually parked outside my house and I had no idea who the offending car was owned by. She demanded to know who else was in the house.
I rightfully now have lost patience with her and told her to get off my doorstep and leave us alone - I used the word someone suggested on this forum that she is now bullying her neighbours - and told her to contact the council and ask them to lower her pavement. Any suggestions? I will not have her terrorising us - her behaviour is completely unacceptable.
I unfortunately opened the door and she began some rant about my parking outside her house and carried on regardless when I pointed out that my car was actually parked outside my house and I had no idea who the offending car was owned by. She demanded to know who else was in the house.
I rightfully now have lost patience with her and told her to get off my doorstep and leave us alone - I used the word someone suggested on this forum that she is now bullying her neighbours - and told her to contact the council and ask them to lower her pavement. Any suggestions? I will not have her terrorising us - her behaviour is completely unacceptable.
Re: crazy lady
That does sound rather terrifying. As I posted previously, were this batty fool 6 foot tall, male and sporting a skinhead then there might be call for Police involvement. It actually makes me slightly angry that this clearly anti-social and aggressive behaviour by this individual is going unchecked and is clearly escalating.musicgirl wrote:Ok - things are taking a slightly more sinsiter turn now - greyhound lady turned up banging on my door this morning - and when I say banging, I thought my neighbour had a huge hammer out and was trying to bring down the front door.
I unfortunately opened the door and she began some rant about my parking outside her house and carried on regardless when I pointed out that my car was actually parked outside my house and I had no idea who the offending car was owned by. She demanded to know who else was in the house.
I rightfully now have lost patience with her and told her to get off my doorstep and leave us alone - I used the word someone suggested on this forum that she is now bullying her neighbours - and told her to contact the council and ask them to lower her pavement. Any suggestions? I will not have her terrorising us - her behaviour is completely unacceptable.
Don't be fooled by her outward appearance. Not all old people are kind 'Miss Marple' types. She has firm control of her faculties given she has remembered and identified you...targeted you, even. It's not the old people's home she needs to be shipped off to, it's prison. I'd contact the council to see about an ASBO. I think she neither deserves nor needs our sympathy.
You might not wish to confirm musicgirl but I sense we have 2 militant groups at play. One set are Eagle's mates and are on Tannsfield Road and the other is by the NatWest. I don't think Eagle's mates are the one's here but if so, Eagle, have a word?
If I were you I'd park outside her home as much as feasibly possible. And contact the council. A call to the Police might be worthwhile. She is out of order. The owners of number 38 on my road (also elderly) think they can put their bins out on the road to save the spot outside their home when they potter off in their car somewhere. I live all the way up the street but if I pass by on the way back and see the bins out...let's just say they've had some very long walks around the neighbouring streets in search of their bins
