The Greyhound, Kirkdale

Knighton · Post by **Knighton** » 7 Aug 2006 23:13

My vision is of a large public square beneath which runs the railway. Access to the station from a passenger friendly station building with escalators and lifts to the platforms below.

Buses would terminate or stop at the square either beneath the square (for buses heading towards Catford/Croydon/Lewisham et al or in front of the Greyhound (for services towards Crystal Palace, Central London et al.

The station would incorporate an information office and a waiting room and a mini-cab office.

If the die-hards insist on through traffic (which I believe there should not be) then that would pass around the square to the North. This area would, however, be better devoted to a market patch, the coffee shop everyone has been pleading for... or better still an old fashioned tea-room. A bit of green, a fountain...... maybe a bandstand.... Definitely none of that mucky looking brick that is so popular around here!

The Greyhound could be converted to residential with an additional block alongside. I can see no reason why some residential accomodation should not straddle the railway to the north end of this... However the presence of a comprehensive transport interchange might attract a more appropriate commercial use for the premises.

In a moment of madness the powers that be might be persuaded to construct a tramway from the station to Bell Green where it would join (replace?) the railway to Hayes and link with the Croydon trams en route.

Not the first Sydenham resident to espouse Eutopia Ltd I know.... but ......

Juwlz · Post by **Juwlz** » 8 Aug 2006 07:23

Knighton

I think your plans sound great. The current layout of the area is a mish mash of box junctions and craziness.

GLOBAL THINKER · Post by **GLOBAL THINKER** » 8 Aug 2006 16:38

Why must there be social housing on this site??

leaf · Post by **leaf** » 8 Aug 2006 16:50

doesnt there have to be on any new building developement?

Knighton · Post by **Knighton** » 8 Aug 2006 18:23

who said there had to be?

Sandra · Post by **Sandra** » 9 Aug 2006 09:49

Hello
It wasn't at the Greyhound but at The Railway. I was passing when the police arrived and when I returned they had taped up the front. I passed again about 15 minutes later and as was mentioned there was only a couple of police vehicles on the other side of the road. Mind you the traffic stack back it created was huge.

Knighton · Post by **Knighton** » 9 Aug 2006 13:49

and perhaps you have lost your way again Sandra. Surely that post belongs to the thread you started?

simono · Post by **simono** » 9 Aug 2006 21:29

There has to be social housing for 2 reasons. Firstly and to be prosaic, because the London Plan and local planning policy then you have to. On a development tbe size of the greyhound site that would ahve to be 50%. Secondly because social housing is needed. Social housing does not need to be to rent, it could be shared ownership, shared equity or subsidised ownership. The art is to develop balanced communites where people from different backgrounds can live together in a real balanced community, not just somewhere where rich outsiders can live.
If we are going to create communities where the children of local families can live then social housing is vital. Where you can't buy a studio flat for less than £150k, otherwise how are local people ever going to afford to stay here?

Sandra · Post by **Sandra** » 10 Aug 2006 10:40

Knighton - I'm sure the thread started as that someone had thought that the police had taped off the Greyhound Pub. I was merely stating that it was the Railway that had been taped off. Not lost my way at all, perhaps you have though.

simono · Post by **simono** » 11 Aug 2006 10:24

Just put this on the other thread on thebGreyhound but is has been sold again! New owners take over in 4 weeks. Local company who run pubs, but are also developers. So we will see how things go. Clealry M&B couldn't make a go of it and the Area manager to whom I was speaking said that the pub was one of the most problematic in their national portfolio. So I reckon flats are on the way!

Greg Whitehead · Post by **Greg Whitehead** » 14 Sep 2006 14:58

It's been mentioned more than a few times that The Greyhound ought to be demolished. Are we certain that would be possible given parts of it are listed? It's an attractive building no doubt. Who knows, maybe if the Dolphin is the success it ought to be it might mean The Greyhound and the Fox & Hounds could be converted to gastropubs - I do like the frontage of them and always thought they'd make good gastropubs.

annabel mclaren · Post by **annabel mclaren** » 15 Sep 2006 08:19

It's highly unlikely that the Greyhound would be demolished - although it's not listed it is a landmark building and part of an important group of buildings (the old Cobbs dept store, the Old Cedars nursing home, the terrace opposite which includes the Kirkdale Bookshop etc). The Sydenham Society tried to get it listed some years ago but English Heritage decided that at that time - the early 90s - too many features had been lost. However, the beautiful side bar with the Minton tiles is pretty much intact and could be re-integrated into the pub by the right landlord.

Steve Grindlay · Post by **Steve Grindlay** » 15 Sep 2006 10:38

If anyone's interested, I've written an article on the Greyhound that includes a picture of the tiled entrance, at http://www.sydenhamsociety.com/Greyhound.html

Greg Whitehead · Post by **Greg Whitehead** » 15 Sep 2006 15:09

A wonderful piece Steve. I had viewed the Sydenham society site a few times before (The Clune House part I found to be particularly saddening). As I walk home, some evenings, I pass the Forest Hill pools - I hope, seeing as this sits on the Syd/FH borders, that we can do all we can to protect the future of this building and not let it go the way of other buildings of note.

Odd question but has anyone been in the part lately with the Minton tiles? does it differ now from Steve's picture? Talk about a hidden gem! You're right Annabel - the right landlord could indeed put the 'wow' factor to good use.

Illuminance · Post by **Illuminance** » 15 Sep 2006 17:29

I had a peek about 6 months ago. (last time I went in there)

The tiled area in Steves picture is still pretty much intact, although it is partitioned off for protection and the current bar counter extends underneath the Greyhound Hotel sign .

From what I can make out in the picture, the carpeted bit where the men are standing is now the office behind the bar. You can make out the fire exit next to the gents loo in the background.

Such a shame when you compare it to the ghetto it is today.

leaf · Post by **leaf** » 15 Sep 2006 18:40

illuminance

ghetto!?

if you class that as a ghetto,you obviously have never seen a real ghetto!

gillyjp · Post by **gillyjp** » 15 Sep 2006 19:10

Annabel - do you know I could just visualise that tiled bar being the site of the much talked about coffee/tea bar with lovely cakes, etc being served. The bar has it's own entrance so it would be perfect. Or am I just being sentimental for all things past?

I am sure I will be shot down in flames by some for such a suggestion but the Greyhound has the space and capacitity to be multi-functioning in this way. However it is not the market that is being aimed at currently in there. I see they have reintroduced Sky football .....

Illuminance · Post by **Illuminance** » 16 Sep 2006 09:00

Hello Leaf

if you class that as a ghetto,you obviously have never seen a real ghetto!

I'll retract my last comment about it being a ghetto, was a wrong choice of word. However, you obviously have never seen the gents toilets! I always thought the idea of drains was to take waste away from the area. Joseph Bazalgette must be spinning in his grave

I very much doubt things (ie: fixtures, fittings, service and procedures) have changed dramatically in the six months since my last rancid pint of Guinness was served in there.

If things have changed then I'll gladly give it another go

It would be great to restore the place to its former beauty. Take a look in the Anerley Arms, the interior is fantastic. Problem being, investors are going to want a return on their money and Victoriana-style paint jobs do not flick the switch of the masses whilst they're swigging Stella.

This thread has been flogged to death! Every pub has its ups and downs during its lifespan. Lets hope the law of averages works in our favour and things get better in the future.

Greg Whitehead · Post by **Greg Whitehead** » 16 Sep 2006 12:29

Oh, I don't know about this thread being flogged to death Illuminance

There's plenty of ill feeling about the Greyhound left in the loins of Sydenhamites yet! You're right in that the Greyhound is merely playing to it's audience in how it presents itself. The only thing I'd point out is that Stellaphiles clearly aren't making the place a success given how often it changes hands.

Will it be the future of the Greyhound to turn it into a gastropub for ponces like moi to sit in the part of the bar in the picture and look down our noses at the denizens of ED whilst quoffing Chablis/Sancerre (I'm trying to be self-deferential here)

- Well we'll know for sure in about a year, based on the success or otherwise of the Dolphin.

annabel mclaren · Post by **annabel mclaren** » 18 Sep 2006 08:45

Gillyjp, I think the idea of using the beautiful tiled bar as a cafe is brilliant! And if a chunk of the pub's outdoor seating area could also be cordoned off for the cafe clientele, that would be even better! I think the pub needs to 'soften' the image of its forecourt - getting rid of those picnic tables which leave splinters in your legs would help!! Aluminium tables and chairs, new umbrellas and newly planted tubs.... it's all so obvious! I think Greg is right - the pub keeps changing hands and the present formula is clearly not working. Going ever so slightly upmarket could help enormously.

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The Greyhound, Kirkdale