I think it's easy to blame Sainsbury's for the state of the high street.
If it wasn't Sainbury's, it would have been Tesco. If Sainbury's hasn't opened in Bell green then people would have travelled to Penge or Beckenham for their weekly shop.
Things change and high streets have to adapt. Problem is Sydenham high street hasn't adapted. It has to rise up to the challenge.
Having lots of shops that do the same thing isn't rising to the challenge.
I'm going to get stick for saying this, but East Dulwich (I can already hear the groans and the 'if you like it so much why don't you move there' comments) has adapted.
While some places in Lordship Lane are admittedly incredibly expensive, it's a nice environment to be. But the place I like there is Northcross road with it's market atmosphere, old fashioned sweet shop, cafe's, antiques shops, fruit and veg stalls and clothes shops is a very pleasant place to be, with lots of variety etc.
I'd take that as a model for how our high street should evolve rather than just copying everything on Lordship Lane (although Lordshop lane still has a launderette, betting shop kebab, chicken shops, DIY shops along side a variety of shops catering for all income levels).
OBVIOUS BUT WORTH REMINDING
Yes, shame on Sainsburys for offering better customer parking, a better selection of goods, a more efficient delivery chain, a more pleasant shopping environment, giving their staff flexible working hours, and offering better conditions and a better working environment than many "family run" (i.e. sweatshop) local stores.
Down with progress. It's terrible.
Down with progress. It's terrible.
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Trawlerman
- Posts: 318
- Joined: 17 Sep 2009 13:56
- Location: Sydenham
Sydenham High Street
Oh dear!
I was asking a question...Maybe/ perhaps ...Sainsbury's... etc.
As an opening to move the conversation on.
I can assure you...
There was no all-out attack on that venerable well-loved institution...
Ye Locale Superstore!..[substitute any supermarket brand you like].And yes ..Progress, marvellous!!!
Modernisation...Great! 24 hour shopping ..Invaluable!!! Choice [swoon!!]
We have all done it...But surely there needs to be a bit of balance. [Shall I continue?]
The point, among many is, who benefits? And, are we properly and wisely weighing short-term and long-term 'benefits'?
[Just a question, ...]
'Adapt or die'...I like the sound of that. Very Darwin. Very 'now'. Great.
Death to dinosaur High streets!!
Long live car parks, economies of scale, the weekly [monthly?] shop, playing with the traffic,
beans from Chile, wine from Argentina, TVs from Turkey ...Terrific!!
By the way...Have you read Betjeman? A bit of an old duffer, I know, but he did make some good points. And, he did irony quite well.
I was asking a question...Maybe/ perhaps ...Sainsbury's... etc.
As an opening to move the conversation on.
I can assure you...
There was no all-out attack on that venerable well-loved institution...
Ye Locale Superstore!..[substitute any supermarket brand you like].And yes ..Progress, marvellous!!!
Modernisation...Great! 24 hour shopping ..Invaluable!!! Choice [swoon!!]
We have all done it...But surely there needs to be a bit of balance. [Shall I continue?]
The point, among many is, who benefits? And, are we properly and wisely weighing short-term and long-term 'benefits'?
[Just a question, ...]
'Adapt or die'...I like the sound of that. Very Darwin. Very 'now'. Great.
Death to dinosaur High streets!!
Long live car parks, economies of scale, the weekly [monthly?] shop, playing with the traffic,
beans from Chile, wine from Argentina, TVs from Turkey ...Terrific!!
By the way...Have you read Betjeman? A bit of an old duffer, I know, but he did make some good points. And, he did irony quite well.
No worries, Trawlerman!
What constantly annoys me about the whole high street debate it's mainly based on hypocrisy and / or fantasy.
i.e. We love small, local shops (but we actually buy our stuff at M&S London Bridge or Sainsburys).
or: wouldn't it be great if we has a fishmonger, new butchers shop etc (which we also wouldn’t shop at, and which wouldn't be financially viable in any event).
I have two - very simple - desires of my high street.
1) It looks nice and tidy (which probably means mainly multiple retailers, because they actually have money to make their premises look presentable - even if bland) and
2) That it sells stuff I genuinely can't get more conveniently elsewhere. Which is either top-up food buying (where the food isn’t rotting), a nice meal, a drink, a hair cut, or a bank.
And that's it.
Simples?
What constantly annoys me about the whole high street debate it's mainly based on hypocrisy and / or fantasy.
i.e. We love small, local shops (but we actually buy our stuff at M&S London Bridge or Sainsburys).
or: wouldn't it be great if we has a fishmonger, new butchers shop etc (which we also wouldn’t shop at, and which wouldn't be financially viable in any event).
I have two - very simple - desires of my high street.
1) It looks nice and tidy (which probably means mainly multiple retailers, because they actually have money to make their premises look presentable - even if bland) and
2) That it sells stuff I genuinely can't get more conveniently elsewhere. Which is either top-up food buying (where the food isn’t rotting), a nice meal, a drink, a hair cut, or a bank.
And that's it.
Simples?
I would use a butchers if I felt like the meat wouldn't make me ill and it didn't stink like a lot of butchers do. And decent sausages for a treat...mmmmm
I used to go to Deptford when I lived near by and it was great. The advice you get is invaluable and it was as cheap as the supermarkets.
For instance, try marinating for a few hours steak in Pineapple (just the bits you normally throw away) it goes REALLY tender.
You dont get that from a pack in Sainbury's (much as designers try to get stuff like that on there!).
I used to go to Deptford when I lived near by and it was great. The advice you get is invaluable and it was as cheap as the supermarkets.
For instance, try marinating for a few hours steak in Pineapple (just the bits you normally throw away) it goes REALLY tender.
You dont get that from a pack in Sainbury's (much as designers try to get stuff like that on there!).
leenewham wrote:I would use a butchers if I felt like the meat wouldn't make me ill and it didn't stink like a lot of butchers do. And decent sausages for a treat...mmmmm
I used to go to Deptford when I lived near by and it was great. The advice you get is invaluable and it was as cheap as the supermarkets.
For instance, try marinating for a few hours steak in Pineapple (just the bits you normally throw away) it goes REALLY tender.
You dont get that from a pack in Sainbury's (much as designers try to get stuff like that on there!).
as I've said before....what's wrong with the butchers near Bell Green?
It's not in Sydenham, but have you tried Villager's sausages in Beckenham? I got some merguez from them yesterday and they were delicious. For other meat, again it's not in Sydenham, but William Rose in East Dulwich is very good.leenewham wrote:decent sausages for a treat
I've all but given up on getting a decent butcher and/or deli at the Sydenham station end of the high street. The standard of businesses opening in this part of the high street does seem to be gradually improving, but it's still lacking the quality food shops of Lordship Lane and Beckenham, which is why I generally travel to those two places to buy "treat" food. I'm hoping for further improvement when the high street has been refurbished and the East London line extension arrives; if it's not forthcoming after that, it never will be. As for the "Lidl" section of the high street, below The Dolphin and Trattoria Rafaele, I think it's a bit of a lost cause.
leenewham wrote:As I've said before, it looks so tatty from the outside that It feels unhygenic and it's in the wrong place. I hardly ever walk that way (despite the fact I live near by, that part of Sydenham really is in a bad way).
I've heard it is good though. Perhaps...one day...
your loss.
I can't quite see how you can make a judgment that it looks "unhygienic" by the window display though...
Always blows my mind that with the number of Middle Estern/Mediterranean produce sellers in the area, i can't buy fresh figs in season to save my life.dickp wrote:No worries, Trawlerman!
I have two - very simple - desires of my high street.
2) That it sells stuff I genuinely can't get more conveniently elsewhere. Which is either top-up food buying (where the food isn’t rotting), a nice meal, a drink, a hair cut, or a bank.
Simples?