What I was really getting at was where he'd been at school. On the evidence of thisPlayed chess, visited our (free) museums and hung about in friends' houses.
not somewhere where they teach much grammar!get that through your heads' people!
Rough Sleepers
On another thread I tried to find out where Bensonby was during his youth, when social deprivation, teenage alienation, that sort of thing, might have veered him towards anti-social behaviour of one kind or another. He responded that he:
Morning, Eagle...
Indeed, these drinkers aren't locals as I've seen them arriving by bus in the morning as I'm walking the children to school. SNT have their address details as far away as Kings Cross and Thamesmead!
I'm starting to wonder whether they have a website or Facebook group as they seem to be growing in number! I'm worried that word is spreading that Sydenham is a soft area for street drinking and NO ACTION is being taken AT THE MOMENT.
I believe that the next review for a DCZ is in October - will Senior Council Officials turn it down yet again?
Indeed, these drinkers aren't locals as I've seen them arriving by bus in the morning as I'm walking the children to school. SNT have their address details as far away as Kings Cross and Thamesmead!
I'm starting to wonder whether they have a website or Facebook group as they seem to be growing in number! I'm worried that word is spreading that Sydenham is a soft area for street drinking and NO ACTION is being taken AT THE MOMENT.
I believe that the next review for a DCZ is in October - will Senior Council Officials turn it down yet again?
No, I'm saying he misunderstands the intricacies of the Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001 - which does not grant the power to make drinking alcohol in the street illegal!Rebelmc wrote:Can you explain Cllr Getgood's post then?bensonby wrote:oh, for goodness sake, there is no such thing as a "no drinking zone" as I've pointed out on many occasions.
How about we penalise people when they commit crimes (such as when they abused Scott's family) rather than pre-empt people's criminality...
Being a sad wino is not, and should not be, a crime......get that through your heads' people!
How can they possibly enforce a 'no drinking zone', when no such zone can possibly exist?
Are you calling him a liar?
and back to the street drinkers....what, precisely, are they doing that is wrong?
in the case of scott's family, they have committed an offence under section 5 of the public order act 1986...they, as an induvidual, could be given an ASBO if this behaviour was a regular thing..... why introduce blanket rules &c. when a more targeted approach is perfectly possible?
in the case of scott's family, they have committed an offence under section 5 of the public order act 1986...they, as an induvidual, could be given an ASBO if this behaviour was a regular thing..... why introduce blanket rules &c. when a more targeted approach is perfectly possible?
For goodness sake Bensonby, throw away those old law books you used when at Manchester University and apply some commonsense and basic observation. No drinking zones have been applied all over the country including Penge. The police then enforce a no drinking policy - and they work. That's what people in this area want and I know that our local councillors have heard this message loud and clear.
If you believe that the local police are acting illegally why not write to the local Chief Inspector (who is very much in favour of no drinking zones)and tell him that he is acting illegally? When your receive a reply why not post it up on the site - I'd very much like to read his views and talk to him about your complaint. Surely this would clarify once and for all who is correct - you or our local police force.
Mummycat and Thomas are correct in asserting that many of the local drunks are from outside the area and have been channelled here by no drinking zone in other localities. I have talked to the local outreach worker who is desperately trying to get many of these characters into a hostel during the day and he recognises many of them as coming from central Lewisham and further afield.
We must have a no drinking zone in SE26.
If you believe that the local police are acting illegally why not write to the local Chief Inspector (who is very much in favour of no drinking zones)and tell him that he is acting illegally? When your receive a reply why not post it up on the site - I'd very much like to read his views and talk to him about your complaint. Surely this would clarify once and for all who is correct - you or our local police force.
Mummycat and Thomas are correct in asserting that many of the local drunks are from outside the area and have been channelled here by no drinking zone in other localities. I have talked to the local outreach worker who is desperately trying to get many of these characters into a hostel during the day and he recognises many of them as coming from central Lewisham and further afield.
We must have a no drinking zone in SE26.
Lewisham Borough Police certainly do not enforce "no drinking zones" there is no such thing.
You are demonstrating a basic misunderstanding of the law - why not have a read of the relavent act, its publically available online. And I do not suppose police are acting illegally, I just imgaine they have a rather better understanding of the law and their powers than the posters on this website.
Police don't always chuck street drinkers' booze away in control zones....it just isn't worth it much of the time. If they did, then why are there still plenty of them on Rushy Green? - even when police go past.
As I've said before - and I'll say again until someone answers me - why don't we punish people who have actually broken the law rather than create new rules to outlaw them? ASBOs can be implemented to stop people doing all sorts of things on an induvidual level rather than applying blanket rules to attempt to outlaw rather some of these rather pathetic specimens...
And I didn't use lawbooks at university, I wasn't a law student.[/code]
You are demonstrating a basic misunderstanding of the law - why not have a read of the relavent act, its publically available online. And I do not suppose police are acting illegally, I just imgaine they have a rather better understanding of the law and their powers than the posters on this website.
Police don't always chuck street drinkers' booze away in control zones....it just isn't worth it much of the time. If they did, then why are there still plenty of them on Rushy Green? - even when police go past.
As I've said before - and I'll say again until someone answers me - why don't we punish people who have actually broken the law rather than create new rules to outlaw them? ASBOs can be implemented to stop people doing all sorts of things on an induvidual level rather than applying blanket rules to attempt to outlaw rather some of these rather pathetic specimens...
And I didn't use lawbooks at university, I wasn't a law student.[/code]
If I may be as bold to try to strike a balance between nasaroc and Bensonby....
I fully support our police force in their endeavours against crime and anti-social behaviour. I empathise that the police have procedures for dealing with most eventualities. These procedures can be problematic and drawn-out. For Example If Scott wanted an ASBO taken out on the streetdrinker, he would have to start a potentiallly lenghty process of identifying the drinker, gaining additional witnesses, etc. And then the courts judgement is likely to be ...lenient.
I think Nasaroc is expressing a general concensus of frustration as to immediate action that can be taken. I was living in Coventry in 1989-90 when the first no-drinking zone came into effect in the city. I was stopped on a few occasions on my way to parties where the police inspected the alcohol in my possesion to ensure I wasn't street drinking.This was around the time that the 'Care in the Community' schemes were piloted and a whole load of people who should have been in care, were released onto the streets.
Seeing an apparent success in Penge, I would be happy to have a no-drinking zone in sydenham.
I fully support our police force in their endeavours against crime and anti-social behaviour. I empathise that the police have procedures for dealing with most eventualities. These procedures can be problematic and drawn-out. For Example If Scott wanted an ASBO taken out on the streetdrinker, he would have to start a potentiallly lenghty process of identifying the drinker, gaining additional witnesses, etc. And then the courts judgement is likely to be ...lenient.
I think Nasaroc is expressing a general concensus of frustration as to immediate action that can be taken. I was living in Coventry in 1989-90 when the first no-drinking zone came into effect in the city. I was stopped on a few occasions on my way to parties where the police inspected the alcohol in my possesion to ensure I wasn't street drinking.This was around the time that the 'Care in the Community' schemes were piloted and a whole load of people who should have been in care, were released onto the streets.
Seeing an apparent success in Penge, I would be happy to have a no-drinking zone in sydenham.
Bensonby may indded be correct , however whilst these people seem to come from miles arround something needs to be done.
I am puzzled why they want to waste their undeserved HMG handouts on bus fares but is there and logic here.
If these zones ( whatever they are ) deter street drinkers then let us have one here.
I am puzzled why they want to waste their undeserved HMG handouts on bus fares but is there and logic here.
If these zones ( whatever they are ) deter street drinkers then let us have one here.
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chrisj1948
- Posts: 538
- Joined: 15 Jul 2008 15:12
- Location: Sydenham
The situation on Sydenham Road is better than it used to be. Angie's flower stall outside the post office is a lot more attractive than the benchful of drinkers was. The drinkers now seem to congregate outside the closed-down Hypermarket, where there is a good breadth of pavement for the fastidious to steer clear of them, and are much less 'in your face' than they used to be.
I still wish that persons unknown would stop throwing empty cans over the fence into my front garden.
Regards
Chris
I still wish that persons unknown would stop throwing empty cans over the fence into my front garden.
Regards
Chris
Hi Chris
Guess you live in one of the lovely Queen Anne houses.
Public drinking ( outside your own home ) should be in licensed premises only where the landlord can keep an eye on drunkeness and bad behaviour. Surely this should be easy to enforce, drunks abusing law abiding passers by should not be tollerated , especially if drinking on HMG handouts.
Guess you live in one of the lovely Queen Anne houses.
Public drinking ( outside your own home ) should be in licensed premises only where the landlord can keep an eye on drunkeness and bad behaviour. Surely this should be easy to enforce, drunks abusing law abiding passers by should not be tollerated , especially if drinking on HMG handouts.
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Paddy Pantsdown
- Posts: 204
- Joined: 1 Oct 2004 10:04
- Location: Venner Road
Eagle, so instead of targetting the guilty as Bensonby suggests you want to punish the innocent who have drunk in public for years. You do realise some of our greatest and revered summer festive events are fuelled (in the positive sense) with a little grape juice.
You want the police to inspect my thermos (keeps my Rose nicely cool) and fine me even though I am not causing any trouble? Just to spoil my enjoyment?
You also have a magic way of separating out social benefits from the undeserving poor to the deserving poor (you do believe there are some of the latter?). Something that has defeated every government of every hue despite their promises and best intentions.
You paint to me a picture of a stalinist state where whether guilty or innocent we have to conform with your particular view of morality. Frankly I find the drunks less threatening than those wanting to police us all to death. Because death is what happens in the end when you give too much power to the state.
PP
You want the police to inspect my thermos (keeps my Rose nicely cool) and fine me even though I am not causing any trouble? Just to spoil my enjoyment?
You also have a magic way of separating out social benefits from the undeserving poor to the deserving poor (you do believe there are some of the latter?). Something that has defeated every government of every hue despite their promises and best intentions.
You paint to me a picture of a stalinist state where whether guilty or innocent we have to conform with your particular view of morality. Frankly I find the drunks less threatening than those wanting to police us all to death. Because death is what happens in the end when you give too much power to the state.
PP
If there was a thumbs up icon...this post would get one!!Paddy Pantsdown wrote:Eagle, so instead of targetting the guilty as Bensonby suggests you want to punish the innocent who have drunk in public for years. You do realise some of our greatest and revered summer festive events are fuelled (in the positive sense) with a little grape juice.
You want the police to inspect my thermos (keeps my Rose nicely cool) and fine me even though I am not causing any trouble? Just to spoil my enjoyment?
You also have a magic way of separating out social benefits from the undeserving poor to the deserving poor (you do believe there are some of the latter?). Something that has defeated every government of every hue despite their promises and best intentions.
You paint to me a picture of a stalinist state where whether guilty or innocent we have to conform with your particular view of morality. Frankly I find the drunks less threatening than those wanting to police us all to death. Because death is what happens in the end when you give too much power to the state.
PP