Very true. Unfortunately one also needs to get back again, and eighteen bags of shopping make walking, or even taking the bus, problematical.Eagle wrote:Why drive to Sava Centre. Take a bus or walk.
Regards
Chris
Should the High Street be closed to traffic?
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chrisj1948
- Posts: 538
- Joined: 15 Jul 2008 15:12
- Location: Sydenham
Eagle - would love to walk to Savacentre as discussed but with two very young kids and heavy shopping it's not a feasible option.
Parker - well if you and I go round about the houses to avoid getting snarled up in Syd Road traffic I presume others must do too. The area you mention is really bad I totally agree - I had to get two tyres replaced a couple of months ago and it took me 30 mins to get to Kwik Fit from Lawrie Park Gardens and 20 mins to get back again. Clearly it was a bad day but that's insane! When Syd Road works start up and congestion gets really bad I guess Forest Hill and Penge can look forward to more traffic being shunted their way from people looking for alternative routes around Syd Road. Only answer seems to be to get people out of their cars. Or in a few years we are going to be gridlocked. Would closing Syd Road achieve that? I don't know.
However I do think one way to get people like me out of their cars (ie people making non essential car journeys for simple shopping because they feel forced to for some reason) would be to shift more businesses into some of our residential side streets. I mean businesses like small scale butchers, greengrocers and bakers shops etc - not plumbers merchants, bookies, and that kind of thing. A couple of weeks ago I visited a friend in Wandsworth. The housing stock there was similar to ours, road sizes about the same, parking availablity about the same (maybe less actually as they have a lot of CPZs) but the atmosphere was totally different. We went for a walk - just around some of the residential side roads - and it was lovely. We stopped in at a cafe on a parade of shops where locals were doing their shopping - butcher's, greengrocers etc, everyone on foot or bikes, very few people pulling up in cars and there was a real villagey atmosphere even though it could have been any back road around Sydenham the similarities were so striking. I started wondering what happened to Sydenham that we got so intent on cramming all our 'essential' businesses into one crummy long road and at Bell Green? Surely we should be offering incentives for small businesses to start up all over Sydenham in an effort to solve our traffic problem? If there was a butchers, bakers, greengrocers, general store and Blue Mountain (but cheaper!) style cafe cluster in Lawrie Park area open until say 9pm I'm sure I and hundreds of others would use it day in and day out - in the day and on the way home from work for essentials. We should have clusters of these shops all over the place - one in Venner Road, one in Silverdale, I think there's already one half way down Newlands Park (though maybe not a v good one - just a cafe and some non descript shops), one down Syd Park Road, one in Mayow Road etc etc. They'd be like little community hubs where you could pop out and get all your essentials at a moment's notice without having to plan a shopping trip with military precision or do an internet shop once a week which means half your food isn't fresh or goes rotten in the fridge. Isn't this why people are getting so excited about Tesco's Express on Kirkdale? Because it's so much nicer to have shops selling a decent range of food (and not just a few tins of Campbell's soup and some Hob Nobs) within walking distance than have to drive to get provisions? It makes shopping for food a quick job rather than a long-winded chore. And gives back a villagey atmosphere to individual areas of Sydenham. Bizarre that it should be Tesco's doing this.
There used to be a butchers, bakers and a couple of decent greengrocers at the top of Kirkdale right up until the eighties - possibly the nineties I think. My grandparents used them religiously. I reckon the best thing Lewisham Council could do if they want to solve traffic troubles is offer real incentives to cottage industry style businesses like these to come back into the area - selling decent grub at decent prices. We should encourage people to open up small scale commerical premises in residential side road areas instead of allowing former local shops to be turned into residential stock. Places you can get a block of cheese or some butter or a leg of lamb at a decent price within five minutes walking distance of home. We're so hung up on Syd Road as our community hub. Blue Mountain would have been so much nicer if it had opened up down one of our nicer looking side roads. I never go there because standing at my living room window and having a coffee is so much nicer than sitting at that roundabout looking at the Greyhound and breathing in stinky traffic fumes. And get charged a premium for the privilege. Yuck.
I say leave Sydenham Road for big businesses/ places that people only need to visit once in a blue moon and regenerate the area with clusters of good quality cottage industry style shops down side streets and residential roads all over Sydenham selling stuff at reasonable prices (by keeping their rents low or offering financial incentives for them to open up in the first place such as if you open up a business the council will help with fitting the place out and provide very cheap accomodation above the shop for the person running the business and their family) that people would actually use.
Then maybe we'd all use our cars less and you wouldn't have to close Sydenham Road to traffic.
Parker - well if you and I go round about the houses to avoid getting snarled up in Syd Road traffic I presume others must do too. The area you mention is really bad I totally agree - I had to get two tyres replaced a couple of months ago and it took me 30 mins to get to Kwik Fit from Lawrie Park Gardens and 20 mins to get back again. Clearly it was a bad day but that's insane! When Syd Road works start up and congestion gets really bad I guess Forest Hill and Penge can look forward to more traffic being shunted their way from people looking for alternative routes around Syd Road. Only answer seems to be to get people out of their cars. Or in a few years we are going to be gridlocked. Would closing Syd Road achieve that? I don't know.
However I do think one way to get people like me out of their cars (ie people making non essential car journeys for simple shopping because they feel forced to for some reason) would be to shift more businesses into some of our residential side streets. I mean businesses like small scale butchers, greengrocers and bakers shops etc - not plumbers merchants, bookies, and that kind of thing. A couple of weeks ago I visited a friend in Wandsworth. The housing stock there was similar to ours, road sizes about the same, parking availablity about the same (maybe less actually as they have a lot of CPZs) but the atmosphere was totally different. We went for a walk - just around some of the residential side roads - and it was lovely. We stopped in at a cafe on a parade of shops where locals were doing their shopping - butcher's, greengrocers etc, everyone on foot or bikes, very few people pulling up in cars and there was a real villagey atmosphere even though it could have been any back road around Sydenham the similarities were so striking. I started wondering what happened to Sydenham that we got so intent on cramming all our 'essential' businesses into one crummy long road and at Bell Green? Surely we should be offering incentives for small businesses to start up all over Sydenham in an effort to solve our traffic problem? If there was a butchers, bakers, greengrocers, general store and Blue Mountain (but cheaper!) style cafe cluster in Lawrie Park area open until say 9pm I'm sure I and hundreds of others would use it day in and day out - in the day and on the way home from work for essentials. We should have clusters of these shops all over the place - one in Venner Road, one in Silverdale, I think there's already one half way down Newlands Park (though maybe not a v good one - just a cafe and some non descript shops), one down Syd Park Road, one in Mayow Road etc etc. They'd be like little community hubs where you could pop out and get all your essentials at a moment's notice without having to plan a shopping trip with military precision or do an internet shop once a week which means half your food isn't fresh or goes rotten in the fridge. Isn't this why people are getting so excited about Tesco's Express on Kirkdale? Because it's so much nicer to have shops selling a decent range of food (and not just a few tins of Campbell's soup and some Hob Nobs) within walking distance than have to drive to get provisions? It makes shopping for food a quick job rather than a long-winded chore. And gives back a villagey atmosphere to individual areas of Sydenham. Bizarre that it should be Tesco's doing this.
There used to be a butchers, bakers and a couple of decent greengrocers at the top of Kirkdale right up until the eighties - possibly the nineties I think. My grandparents used them religiously. I reckon the best thing Lewisham Council could do if they want to solve traffic troubles is offer real incentives to cottage industry style businesses like these to come back into the area - selling decent grub at decent prices. We should encourage people to open up small scale commerical premises in residential side road areas instead of allowing former local shops to be turned into residential stock. Places you can get a block of cheese or some butter or a leg of lamb at a decent price within five minutes walking distance of home. We're so hung up on Syd Road as our community hub. Blue Mountain would have been so much nicer if it had opened up down one of our nicer looking side roads. I never go there because standing at my living room window and having a coffee is so much nicer than sitting at that roundabout looking at the Greyhound and breathing in stinky traffic fumes. And get charged a premium for the privilege. Yuck.
I say leave Sydenham Road for big businesses/ places that people only need to visit once in a blue moon and regenerate the area with clusters of good quality cottage industry style shops down side streets and residential roads all over Sydenham selling stuff at reasonable prices (by keeping their rents low or offering financial incentives for them to open up in the first place such as if you open up a business the council will help with fitting the place out and provide very cheap accomodation above the shop for the person running the business and their family) that people would actually use.
Then maybe we'd all use our cars less and you wouldn't have to close Sydenham Road to traffic.
Maestro, Its only a pretend survey!Why not get a bag on wheels? we have a family of five and do all our shopping on foot. It's easy to manage if you are a bit inventive....better for you and the environment too....chrisj1948 wrote:Very true. Unfortunately one also needs to get back again, and eighteen bags of shopping make walking, or even taking the bus, problematical.Eagle wrote:Why drive to Sava Centre. Take a bus or walk.
Regards
Chris
18 bags worth - wow!bensonby wrote:Why not get a bag on wheels? we have a family of five and do all our shopping on foot. It's easy to manage if you are a bit inventive....better for you and the environment too....chrisj1948 wrote:Very true. Unfortunately one also needs to get back again, and eighteen bags of shopping make walking, or even taking the bus, problematical.Eagle wrote:Why drive to Sava Centre. Take a bus or walk.
Regards
Chris
I think I'd use the interwebby to get it delivered to my door if I were getting that much in one go!
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chrisj1948
- Posts: 538
- Joined: 15 Jul 2008 15:12
- Location: Sydenham
That's an idea. Perhaps I should 'liberate' one of those abandoned postman's trolleys and kill two birds with one stonebensonby wrote:Why not get a bag on wheels? we have a family of five and do all our shopping on foot. It's easy to manage if you are a bit inventive....better for you and the environment too....
Regards
Chris