Lewisham! 6th safest place in England!

[parker]

Ulysses i stumbled across a bit of general info on upyourstreet.com, may be worth a look

http://www.upmystreet.com/local/my-neig ... 6+4AA.html

http://www.upmystreet.com/local/police- ... /se26.html

http://www.upmystreet.com/local/police- ... /se26.html

and

http://www.upmystreet.com/local/my-neig ... 3+1AA.html

http://www.upmystreet.com/local/police-crime/l/br3.html

http://www.upmystreet.com/local/police- ... l/br3.html

[Ulysses]

No problem Ulysses, no hard feelings at all. Just two different opinions.

Ive found a bit of general info on upyourstreet.com, may be worth a look

http://www.upmystreet.com/local/my-neig ... 6+4AA.html

http://www.upmystreet.com/local/police- ... /se26.html

and

http://www.upmystreet.com/local/my-neig ... 3+1AA.html

http://www.upmystreet.com/local/police-crime/l/br3.html

I'm really sorry if you think I am picking on you and your posts parker. I really am not. But I fail to see the significance of your points contained above.

You cite the relative affluence of those who live above the shops in Beckenham High St versus those who live in Adamsrill Road... surely this is "apples with pears" if ever I've seen it? How about you try and come up with some independent facts regarding London Borough versus London Borough or area versus area rather than street versus street?

I'm trying really hard to sensibly debate with you parker. But I'm not sure if you understand the nuances of how to go about it.

We are still at the original starting point of the following:

I have pointed out our Green Flag Park coverage. Our ommision from the most robust study ever done on 'rough' areas (neither LB figures on the 'best' list). The fact your feted wish-list area of LB Bromley and Beckenham receives continued National Press coverage for the brutality of it's incidents (teenage and gangland murders) - so regular and common place are they.

And you come back with a jumped up Estate Agents website to back up your claims that LB Bromley and Beckenham bests LB Lewisham and Sydenham...I have to really point out the obvious and ask why don't you move there? Are you really that resentful that you can only afford somewhere in Wells Park? Is it what you are immediately surrounded by that you object to?

It may be not be the most attractive local authority estate ever but I have never had cause to feel unsafe there - even late at night when I walk through it - I don't live there but have seen enough of it to form an opinion.

Come back to me with something based on National Office of Statisitics or from a recognised and respected Academic source such as UCL or a recognised independent body such as Green Park Flag Awards. I'll even accept PRISM lifestage or Mosaic or any of the accepted demographic incidence surveys.

I'm really sorry and I'm not attacking you but you are still passing off your own ignorant, poorly researched and baseless personal opinion as statement of fact regarding huge swathes of an area...

That's not how you even begin to debate my good man.

[jmc]

I feel a need to address two points brought up by Ulysses, although this is not really a thread I'd like to use for my first thread on this forum

First off this type of thread always seems to pop up on community forums with the community always backing their own area. As was pointed out earlier in the thread, London has "good" and "bad" in close proximity and its difficult to judge any area. Due in a large part, as Ulyses points out, the actions of the GLC in the 50's. I have had a feeling this is being reversed recently as "right-to-buy" houses in "good" areas ended being owned by private owners.

The two points I'd said I'd address

As for Beckenham do you truly believe that Beckenham does not have many areas to avoid after dark? I bet you think that poor soul who was knifed and battered to death in Beckenham during a running battle with about 40 youths were all bussed in from somewhere else? Probably Catford do you think?

This murder should not be associated wholly with Beckenham. It happened right on the border of Lewisham and Bromley. Nearly all the reports at the time said the murderers were a gang from Lewisham, who after the murder got onto a bus heading back to Lewisham (Catford?). I've just had a look and cant find any up to date information on the case

...... last year we were joint highest of ALL the London boroughs for the amount of Green Flag Parks - that would tell me we are pretty green and leafy?

Its doesn't tell you Lewisham is green and leafy, it only tells you Lewisham has more "Green Flags" than any other borough. To get a Green FLag you follow a list of rules in a manual, pay a fee to have your park looked at, and if you've correctly followed the manual you get a flag for one year.
Its clear many local authorities cant be bothered to buy these "flags" off this organisation, and this in no way indicates a boroughs parks are in some way lacking.

It was implied that Beckenham was leafier than Sydenham. With authorities moving around and deleting areas, its hard to define the boundaries of Beckenham and Sydenham, but of far as I am concerned there is no discernible difference between the two. Both have lots of superb open areas.

Bromley cant be compared to Lewisham in terms of open areas since half of the Borough is countryside. Bromleys "countryside" totals more than twice the area of the whole of the Borough of Lewisham. If we compare the Urban area of Bromley and Lewisham they are similar, and in my opinion Lewisham manages Sydenham better than Bromley manages its Urban areas.

I'd probably feel safer walking through Sydenham, due to Beckenhams pubs & bars, with the associated drunken violence.

[parker]

I have various questions which I hope people can answer:

* Why have drugs offences more than doubled in the last year? This has happened in Lewisham as a whole, but Sydenham has seen a higher than average rise.

* Why have "other notifiable offences" declined so markedly year on year, both across Lewisham and in Sydenham?

* Why has robbery more than doubled in the last 12 months?
Why has "violence against the person" doubled?

* In many categories, crime in Sydenham is about, or above, the Lewisham average. Should we be concerned about this?

I cant be the only person thinking Sydenham/LBL has issues regarding crime.

The third links now shown below that wasnt quoted is the most sufficient and may explain the differences between Beckenham and Sydenham, how wrong can this data be? Other data would probably say something along the same lines as this.

http://www.upmystreet.com/local/police- ... /se26.html

and

http://www.upmystreet.com/local/police- ... l/br3.html

Also if upyourstreet.com isnt enough, how about looking at this for a comparison of Sydenham and Beckenham

Sydenham

http://www.met.police.uk/crimefigures/d ... eriod=year

Beckenham

http://www.met.police.uk/crimefigures/d ... eriod=year

'Violence against the other person' 'Drugs Offences' and 'Robbery' are of a high growing concern for Sydenham residents more so than that of Beckenham. Where 'criminal damage' and 'sexual offences' are higher in Beckenham it is only less than a precentage difference of Sydenham's.

In regard to this i doubt night crime would be worse in Beckenham if Sydenham had the night time venues that Beckenham does. I also believe that the minority of issues of London Borough of Bromley in their urban areas are partly due to the lack of things to do in neighbouring boroughs like Lewisham, i.e Drunkenness in Beckenham night life and 'saff east landen' chavs in The Glades in Bromley. So what i am trying to say is that people from Lewisham contribute towards Bromley's crime statistics because they come into the area, hence this...

This murder should not be associated wholly with Beckenham. It happened right on the border of Lewisham and Bromley. Nearly all the reports at the time said the murderers were a gang from Lewisham, who after the murder got onto a bus heading back to Lewisham (Catford?).

Famous last words

[Eagle]

Surely murderers would not be so stupid as to catch a bus with CCTV etc.

You mentioned buglary rising. In paper today only 1 in 4 criminals jailed. That is youir answer. Soft laws and soft judges.

[parker]

Surely murderers would not be so stupid as to catch a bus with CCTV etc.

They are when they come from Catford!

[parker]

Have just found some interesting statistics by Halifax on the 50 best places to live in the UK, have found Bromley as the best place to live in London and 4th best in the UK for quality of life.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -life.html

Chief economist Martin Ellis takes into account GCSE results, houseprices, employment rates, earnings, life expectancy, education, average hours of sunshine, etc, and our neighbouring borough enjoys an average salary that is in the top five percent of earnings in the UK.