Would you say that you feel safe in your area of Lewisham, according to this we live in one of the most secure areas within England.
Check this out!!!
http://money.uk.msn.com/insurance/artic ... d=15607850
Are Lewisham Council part of the reason for our borough being one of the safest, is this just a fluke, or does it show how statistics can generalise and simply be wrong? Is your home insurance cheaper than you would hope?
How do you feel living in Lewisham, ever been burgled before?
Lewisham! 6th safest place in England!
I don't know if anyone used to place any stock in the 20 Best and Worst places to live in the UK that Channel4 did each year, well it was independent but they would publish the results...
The data was pretty robust and they would look at indices such as crime, education, employment, environment, lifestyle and health.
Most years five London boroughs would figure 'high' in the WORST list. Islington, Tower Hamlets, Newham, Barking & Dagenham and of course Hackney were always there! Naturally Camden would often figure some years...
http://www.channel4.com/4homes/on-tv/be ... 4_p_1.html
Frankly based on this alone I don't trust any of this data - unless as parker hints at there is 'honour amongst thieves' at play in the Hackney data. Quite what we should infer on that basis about Lewisham I wouldn't like to guess.
Gives some perspective on those who live north of the river's ill founded snobbery of us south Londoners! All the rough parts of town (as an average) were always north of the river.
The data was pretty robust and they would look at indices such as crime, education, employment, environment, lifestyle and health.
Most years five London boroughs would figure 'high' in the WORST list. Islington, Tower Hamlets, Newham, Barking & Dagenham and of course Hackney were always there! Naturally Camden would often figure some years...
http://www.channel4.com/4homes/on-tv/be ... 4_p_1.html
Frankly based on this alone I don't trust any of this data - unless as parker hints at there is 'honour amongst thieves' at play in the Hackney data. Quite what we should infer on that basis about Lewisham I wouldn't like to guess.
Gives some perspective on those who live north of the river's ill founded snobbery of us south Londoners! All the rough parts of town (as an average) were always north of the river.
Where does Lewisham stand on Kirstie and Phil's best and worst places, ive heard that Lewisham is among the 50 worst places in England to bring up children and Bromley is in the top 50..?
Bromley is also the 'best' place to live in London followed by Richmond, Sutton, Kingston, Harrow and Bexley, according to research by Halifax a year ago, it was based on GCSE results and school league tables, the amount of properties owned, ownership of the largest properties, life expectancy, pollution and household income, etc.
Would be nice to find out more about Lewisham in comparison of our neighbouring London boroughs, anyone know???
Bromley is also the 'best' place to live in London followed by Richmond, Sutton, Kingston, Harrow and Bexley, according to research by Halifax a year ago, it was based on GCSE results and school league tables, the amount of properties owned, ownership of the largest properties, life expectancy, pollution and household income, etc.
Would be nice to find out more about Lewisham in comparison of our neighbouring London boroughs, anyone know???
the whole concept of "good" and "poor" or "safe" and "unsafe" boroughs is a little bit silly to be honest.
Compare relative affluence &c. of Blackheath Village (Lewisham) and "The Crays" (Bromley)
You can be victims of crime or suffer poor neighbourhoods in just about every borough. you can also experience some of the nicest places in London in lots of "Poor" or "rough" boroughs.
Compare relative affluence &c. of Blackheath Village (Lewisham) and "The Crays" (Bromley)
You can be victims of crime or suffer poor neighbourhoods in just about every borough. you can also experience some of the nicest places in London in lots of "Poor" or "rough" boroughs.
Agreed Bensonby.
There is this cheek-by-jowl nature of London due to the GLC actions in the 50's. Nice streets next to less favourable ones, nice areas next to less favourable. See also the proximity of Kidbrooke to Blackheath, Lewisham to Greenwich etc, etc.
Even in Lewisham is never ceases to amaze me some of the very, very handsome streets that literally meet that high-street (sound familiar?).
I don't think boroughs are reflective but the 5 boroughs that did feature heavily each year were there on 'merit' - in my opinion. Take Islington...it may well have the eponymous place but it also has Pentonville, Kings Cross and so on. It's an average but a fair one and representative. All boroughs were treated the same and it was no surprise which one's ended up in the top20 [often SW one's].
They didn't do it in 2008 though. I think some of the 'jeunesse dorée' of Islington couldn't bear the thought that they were surrounded by some really God awful areas! Even when you moved away from Upper Street in Islington itself! They realised that (whisper it quietly) there were even poor people in Islington, Heaven forfend!! And put the kybosh on it. In Islington of all places - not sure they've ever recovered from the shock!
OR maybe it was just that it was always the same good and bad areas.
There is this cheek-by-jowl nature of London due to the GLC actions in the 50's. Nice streets next to less favourable ones, nice areas next to less favourable. See also the proximity of Kidbrooke to Blackheath, Lewisham to Greenwich etc, etc.
Even in Lewisham is never ceases to amaze me some of the very, very handsome streets that literally meet that high-street (sound familiar?).
I don't think boroughs are reflective but the 5 boroughs that did feature heavily each year were there on 'merit' - in my opinion. Take Islington...it may well have the eponymous place but it also has Pentonville, Kings Cross and so on. It's an average but a fair one and representative. All boroughs were treated the same and it was no surprise which one's ended up in the top20 [often SW one's].
They didn't do it in 2008 though. I think some of the 'jeunesse dorée' of Islington couldn't bear the thought that they were surrounded by some really God awful areas! Even when you moved away from Upper Street in Islington itself! They realised that (whisper it quietly) there were even poor people in Islington, Heaven forfend!! And put the kybosh on it. In Islington of all places - not sure they've ever recovered from the shock!
OR maybe it was just that it was always the same good and bad areas.
By looking at a borough's affluence it is not silly to say that a borough is 'better', ie nicer place to live when they have a majority of good places to live in the borough, less desireable places are usually less affluent.
You may say 'The Crays' are the bad areas in Bromley and 'Blackheath Village' is the good area in Lewisham, but thats just it, there arent many other 'good' areas in Lewisham as opposed to the large number of good areas in Bromley so it can be justified quite easily when a borough has a better reputation. Take Sydenham and Beckenham, theyre not far apart but i bet we'd all know where we felt safer when walking at night.
House prices say it all really, dont they?
You may say 'The Crays' are the bad areas in Bromley and 'Blackheath Village' is the good area in Lewisham, but thats just it, there arent many other 'good' areas in Lewisham as opposed to the large number of good areas in Bromley so it can be justified quite easily when a borough has a better reputation. Take Sydenham and Beckenham, theyre not far apart but i bet we'd all know where we felt safer when walking at night.
House prices say it all really, dont they?
I think, in short, the reason they used London boroughs is quite obvious if you step back and think about it. They used boroughs to ensure they were comparing like-for-like. If you want to see how Middlesbrough competes then the only way to do it fairly is to ensure you are comparing population sizes/number of schools/electoral wards etc, etc. The only way to make this feasible is to position it next to an AVERAGE of each London borough.
Comparing Liverpool to say, the LB of Camden gives you a similar playing-field, so to speak
Ahem...sorry to point out the obvious parker and I apologise if I misunderstand your sentiment but you live in Sydenham?...
As for Beckenham do you truly believe that Beckenham does not have many areas to avoid after dark? I bet you think that poor soul who was knifed and battered to death in Beckenham during a running battle with about 40 youths were all bussed in from somewhere else? Probably Catford do you think?
There are a lot of green, quiet and leafy areas in Lewisham. Some of them are even quite expensive parker...some of them are even here in Sydenham
I guess I"m not trying to start an argument. I do think you are very wrong to say Beckenham is rich and Sydenham poor. I've never felt at risk in Sydenham in all my years. Prosaically about 30odd percent of any London borough is given over to social-housing for a start so believe me Beckenham will be well represented. That's not to say social housing should cause fear...
I'll stop but sign off by signing you do have options if you seem to dislike Sydeham so much...
Comparing Liverpool to say, the LB of Camden gives you a similar playing-field, so to speak
Ahem...sorry to point out the obvious parker and I apologise if I misunderstand your sentiment but you live in Sydenham?...
As for Beckenham do you truly believe that Beckenham does not have many areas to avoid after dark? I bet you think that poor soul who was knifed and battered to death in Beckenham during a running battle with about 40 youths were all bussed in from somewhere else? Probably Catford do you think?
There are a lot of green, quiet and leafy areas in Lewisham. Some of them are even quite expensive parker...some of them are even here in Sydenham
I guess I"m not trying to start an argument. I do think you are very wrong to say Beckenham is rich and Sydenham poor. I've never felt at risk in Sydenham in all my years. Prosaically about 30odd percent of any London borough is given over to social-housing for a start so believe me Beckenham will be well represented. That's not to say social housing should cause fear...
I'll stop but sign off by signing you do have options if you seem to dislike Sydeham so much...
I agree that there are affluent areas within Lewisham, ie Sydenham Thorpes and the part of Sydenham that comes under Bromley!! 
however there are more areas within Bromley which are 'leafy, green and quiet' (whether you like it or not) and as for never feeling at risk in Sydenham i think the stabbing outside the chicken shop across from Somerfield in Sydenham the other week is a good enough reason to 'feel at risk in Sydenham'.
Well obsereved, it does sound probable doesnt it - the 54 does run from Catford to Beckenham!!!!
however there are more areas within Bromley which are 'leafy, green and quiet' (whether you like it or not) and as for never feeling at risk in Sydenham i think the stabbing outside the chicken shop across from Somerfield in Sydenham the other week is a good enough reason to 'feel at risk in Sydenham'.Well obsereved, it does sound probable doesnt it - the 54 does run from Catford to Beckenham!!!!
I think we might have to agree to disagree on this one before it really deteriorates.
I sit corrected - I was not aware of any stabbing where you state. I certainly missed any obvious sign of it. Hardly the same as a pitched battle between rival gangs I'd have thought but again I'm not aware of the cirumstances of what happened...
I'm not quite sure if you are trolling. Certainly you were incredulous in your opening gambit - which until now I wasn't sure if you were being earnest or not. It would seem that you are.
Certainly I find your views not only odd and dated but frankly quite ill-informed, hence I think you might be trolling.
If we take the fact of the above survey by University College London [published by Channel4] as proof that Lewisham is really not that bad, even when faced with more celebrated postcodes such as those of Islington borough etc. Certainly I'm not aware of any more robust or wide-ranging survey done? Allied to the fact that I understand that 'we' are joint highest in the number of Green Flag Awards as of this year?
Your viewpoint just doesn't stack up. If you think there are more rough areas in Lewisham than Bromley then you clearly haven't ventured near some of Bromley's more 'edgy' eareas.
Similarly to suggest the Thorpes is Sydenham's only nice area is just really, really stupid - for want of a better word. Why are you so bitter? Why not move elsewhere or does YOUR location tells us all we need to know.
I was actually joking about Catford but clearly you are not.
Have I got you wrong? Are you just baiting and ignorant? I wonder what the view of fellow forum members is?
If I am WRONG I'll take this down and apologise un-reservedlyand you can really 'go-to-town' on me and call me all the names under the sun but I think you're a bit ignorant and wrong and would be best for you to move away to the feted climes of LB of Bromley. Would Penge do you for starters?
I sit corrected - I was not aware of any stabbing where you state. I certainly missed any obvious sign of it. Hardly the same as a pitched battle between rival gangs I'd have thought but again I'm not aware of the cirumstances of what happened...
I'm not quite sure if you are trolling. Certainly you were incredulous in your opening gambit - which until now I wasn't sure if you were being earnest or not. It would seem that you are.
Certainly I find your views not only odd and dated but frankly quite ill-informed, hence I think you might be trolling.
If we take the fact of the above survey by University College London [published by Channel4] as proof that Lewisham is really not that bad, even when faced with more celebrated postcodes such as those of Islington borough etc. Certainly I'm not aware of any more robust or wide-ranging survey done? Allied to the fact that I understand that 'we' are joint highest in the number of Green Flag Awards as of this year?
Your viewpoint just doesn't stack up. If you think there are more rough areas in Lewisham than Bromley then you clearly haven't ventured near some of Bromley's more 'edgy' eareas.
Similarly to suggest the Thorpes is Sydenham's only nice area is just really, really stupid - for want of a better word. Why are you so bitter? Why not move elsewhere or does YOUR location tells us all we need to know.
I was actually joking about Catford but clearly you are not.
Have I got you wrong? Are you just baiting and ignorant? I wonder what the view of fellow forum members is?
If I am WRONG I'll take this down and apologise un-reservedlyand you can really 'go-to-town' on me and call me all the names under the sun but I think you're a bit ignorant and wrong and would be best for you to move away to the feted climes of LB of Bromley. Would Penge do you for starters?
Yes, we will agree to disagree. I am allowed to have my opinion and so are you. And was being sarcastic about Sydenham Thorpes being the only dcent area in Sydenham, caused a rise to the bait didnt i
As for you mentioning my location i would like to say i live on a very smart road hence being featured on montages frequently on Loaction, Location, Location a few years back so don't think you know what you are implying.
Something did happen in Sydenham, info can be found on one of the threads named 'opposide somerfields', but that isnt the point - im fine with LB of Lewisham but parts are 'rough' and i would say there are more 'rough areas in Lewisham than in Bromley, dont think you've been to the best parts of Bromley which are hard to miss anyway.
Oh and i think you'll find many factors into determining the more desirable area if you look hard enough.
As for you mentioning my location i would like to say i live on a very smart road hence being featured on montages frequently on Loaction, Location, Location a few years back so don't think you know what you are implying.
Something did happen in Sydenham, info can be found on one of the threads named 'opposide somerfields', but that isnt the point - im fine with LB of Lewisham but parts are 'rough' and i would say there are more 'rough areas in Lewisham than in Bromley, dont think you've been to the best parts of Bromley which are hard to miss anyway.
Oh and i think you'll find many factors into determining the more desirable area if you look hard enough.
The simple fact of the matter is that Bromley is a far bigger borough that lewisham (land area) and has a much lower population density.
That said, if you look at the high-population density areas the spread of "desirable" and "undesirable" areas is comparable.
Also different boroughs suffer from different types of crime. For example Bromley and Croydon suffer a great deal from "night time economy" crimes in their town centres. i.e. drunkenness and the associated problems of violence &c. that make town-centres ghastly places to live or be (especially on weekends) Lewisham suffers hardly any of these type of crimes...
That said, if you look at the high-population density areas the spread of "desirable" and "undesirable" areas is comparable.
Also different boroughs suffer from different types of crime. For example Bromley and Croydon suffer a great deal from "night time economy" crimes in their town centres. i.e. drunkenness and the associated problems of violence &c. that make town-centres ghastly places to live or be (especially on weekends) Lewisham suffers hardly any of these type of crimes...
Good. I'm glad we haven't fallen out.
You did bait and I did bite - I think I didn't pick up on your sarcasm, so I am sorry for that.
The point I am trying to make is that I agree that desirability can be governed by many factors. Even by perception and reputation which I'll admit is one area that the LB of Bromley DOES market itself considerably better at than than the LB of Lewisham.
Frankly I'd vote for a name change to LB of Blackheath or even LB of Sydenham - the reputation of Lewisham isn't the greatest..
However I stand by the fact that this UCL survey is the most encompassing and respected survey ever undertaken. Take a look at the methodology on the website - it's incredibly robust. Similarly last year we were joint highest of ALL the London boroughs for the amount of Green Flag Parks - that would tell me we are pretty green and leafy?
Anyway, you are correct. It is your opinion and you are more than entitled to it. But to say Beckenham is safer than Sydenham I am afraid is just passing off baseless personal opinion as fact. Often these types of statements are accompanied by "whether you like it or not" - in my experience.
If you can come up with something that bests the two examples I cite I am prepared to listen and change my opinion.
Anyway. I hope we are OK? Were you bored yesterday and just fancied setting a few lures to see if you could provoke a bite?
EDIT: Must improve my spelling!
You did bait and I did bite - I think I didn't pick up on your sarcasm, so I am sorry for that.
The point I am trying to make is that I agree that desirability can be governed by many factors. Even by perception and reputation which I'll admit is one area that the LB of Bromley DOES market itself considerably better at than than the LB of Lewisham.
Frankly I'd vote for a name change to LB of Blackheath or even LB of Sydenham - the reputation of Lewisham isn't the greatest..
However I stand by the fact that this UCL survey is the most encompassing and respected survey ever undertaken. Take a look at the methodology on the website - it's incredibly robust. Similarly last year we were joint highest of ALL the London boroughs for the amount of Green Flag Parks - that would tell me we are pretty green and leafy?
Anyway, you are correct. It is your opinion and you are more than entitled to it. But to say Beckenham is safer than Sydenham I am afraid is just passing off baseless personal opinion as fact. Often these types of statements are accompanied by "whether you like it or not" - in my experience.
If you can come up with something that bests the two examples I cite I am prepared to listen and change my opinion.
Anyway. I hope we are OK? Were you bored yesterday and just fancied setting a few lures to see if you could provoke a bite?
EDIT: Must improve my spelling!
Not sure what people are trying to prove. You live in Lewisham make the most of it.
Both Beckenham and Bromley are not as elite as they once were , or claimed to be.
The Cinema end of Beckenham High Street could easily be in Sydenham.
I have noticed Bromley has got a lot more chavy, a walk arround the glades would prove the point.
Borough of Croydon does have nice parts but not the town centre.
I must admit surprised re the figures on safety but let us hope they are true or even based on truth.
Both Beckenham and Bromley are not as elite as they once were , or claimed to be.
The Cinema end of Beckenham High Street could easily be in Sydenham.
I have noticed Bromley has got a lot more chavy, a walk arround the glades would prove the point.
Borough of Croydon does have nice parts but not the town centre.
I must admit surprised re the figures on safety but let us hope they are true or even based on truth.
Just to add my twopenny worth, a colleague was recently mugged one evening walking from the station in Beckenham. He was badly beaten about the head and his car keys stolen. The muggers knew where he lived because they made their way to his house and stole the car parked outside so had obviously been planning the attack. Incidents like this colour your view of a place and I must say I wouldn't feel any less safe in Sydenham than Beckenham - just the sight of all those bouncers outside the bars at the weekend gives me the creeps. Not a place for a quiet night out.
I agree Janeco.
As for parker's claim that the LB of Bromley and indeed Beckenham is richer/safer/greener etc than the LB of Lewisham and indeed Sydenham, this is clearly not for one minute true. I would also say that whilst I know not of the particulars of the incident in Sydenham, the Ben Hitchcock incident in Beckenham was particularly harrowing and sickening. Bromley has had more than it's fair share of National press coverage recently for these murders in Bromley/Orpington/Beckenham etc.
Gangland executions, day-light murders of youths etc, etc in LB of Bromley. I can't think of our area being in the spot-light for these reasons too often...if at all
I'm not for one minute saying Lewisham does not have it's social ills in parts but to think or to write that the LB of Bromley and every area therein is some sort of midde-class, crime- free utopia is amazing only in it's ignorance - it beggars belief.
Whether or not parker meant his comments as tongue in cheek I do take umbrage at them. I am frankly proud to live where I live. It's expensive (all things being relative) green, leafy, quiet, pretty and I have good neighbours. I don't for one minute think I am the only person on this forum that can write that.
I walk through all of the supposed 'naughty' areas of Sydenham at night and have never once felt as scared as I do when I visit friends in say Highbury [bars, on every window? Why?] or Stoke Newington or Hammersmith etc, etc.
We're sleepy. Nobody knows about us - and that's the appeal!
As for parker's claim that the LB of Bromley and indeed Beckenham is richer/safer/greener etc than the LB of Lewisham and indeed Sydenham, this is clearly not for one minute true. I would also say that whilst I know not of the particulars of the incident in Sydenham, the Ben Hitchcock incident in Beckenham was particularly harrowing and sickening. Bromley has had more than it's fair share of National press coverage recently for these murders in Bromley/Orpington/Beckenham etc.
Gangland executions, day-light murders of youths etc, etc in LB of Bromley. I can't think of our area being in the spot-light for these reasons too often...if at all
I'm not for one minute saying Lewisham does not have it's social ills in parts but to think or to write that the LB of Bromley and every area therein is some sort of midde-class, crime- free utopia is amazing only in it's ignorance - it beggars belief.
Whether or not parker meant his comments as tongue in cheek I do take umbrage at them. I am frankly proud to live where I live. It's expensive (all things being relative) green, leafy, quiet, pretty and I have good neighbours. I don't for one minute think I am the only person on this forum that can write that.
I walk through all of the supposed 'naughty' areas of Sydenham at night and have never once felt as scared as I do when I visit friends in say Highbury [bars, on every window? Why?] or Stoke Newington or Hammersmith etc, etc.
We're sleepy. Nobody knows about us - and that's the appeal!