G Man
I do not share your hatred of Cafe Nero etc or certainly not the good old USA.
I am not a user of McDonalds but would provide a number of jobs , surely welcome in this climate.
The old chemists next to the old HSBC
I'd rather see a Caffe Nero open up than another 'Sema's Cafe' in all honesty, i mean such Coffee Shops can change the whole look and feel of a high street, and yes they are expensive but it keeps the 'riff raff' out doesnt it!
I dont mind independent shops opening but they simply dont have the money to stay open fgor long especially in a place like Sydenham High Street, it is not a Lordship Lane yet, so we need the bigger companies to enter so that we can stabalise jobs and have businesses that will not just close down after a while and do so because they have low start up costs.
I dont mind independent shops opening but they simply dont have the money to stay open fgor long especially in a place like Sydenham High Street, it is not a Lordship Lane yet, so we need the bigger companies to enter so that we can stabalise jobs and have businesses that will not just close down after a while and do so because they have low start up costs.
We obviously still have to wait to see what this new shop is like. - it certainly isn't likely to be a "chain". But just to reassure those - like me - who want to preserve the shop front that this is happening.
The LBL enforcement officer was down at the shop within hours. Full marks to him and our local councillors for getting onto this issue straight away.
The developer has been served with a Planning Contravention Notice. He has subsequently told the enforcement officer that the shop front is being repaired and that he intends to do a "like for like" reinstatement. It's now a question of "watch this space"!
Incidentally, the developer can't just open a cafe - he will have to apply for change of use to A3.
The LBL enforcement officer was down at the shop within hours. Full marks to him and our local councillors for getting onto this issue straight away.
The developer has been served with a Planning Contravention Notice. He has subsequently told the enforcement officer that the shop front is being repaired and that he intends to do a "like for like" reinstatement. It's now a question of "watch this space"!
Incidentally, the developer can't just open a cafe - he will have to apply for change of use to A3.
I am fuming as I write this. I just walked past the chemist, had a peek and to my horror the entire frontage, windows and leaded glass sign were gone. It’s all been completely removed. I may be jumping the gun but I doubt that they took it out for a spring clean!
Something needs to be done before this all ends up in a skip. I’m dropping a note to Chris Best can anyone else suggest who to contact to get on this?
Something needs to be done before this all ends up in a skip. I’m dropping a note to Chris Best can anyone else suggest who to contact to get on this?
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GLOBAL THINKER
- Posts: 179
- Joined: 2 Nov 2004 13:20
- Location: SYDENHAM
I dearly hope it's coming back; if it's gone for good, those responsible should be prosecuted.coll wrote:the entire frontage, windows and leaded glass sign were gone
We don't need any more garish shop fronts on the high street. Selim's kebabs has recently been refitted and has completely missed a huge opportunity grow their business. The new illuminated sign they've put up belongs on a dodgy burger van and the seating area, complete with saloon door, isn't inviting at all. Their shish and kofta kebabs are good enough that the place could have easily been an inviting Turkish cafe, but unfortunately it's still just a kebab shop with a dodgy-looking seating area.
Totally agree Chazza.
It's a sorry state of affairs when some of the best looking businesses in the high street are charity shops!
It's expensive to change a shop front, and yet people do it and it makes no difference to how someone views their business.
A lick of paint and well considered, SIMPLE signage is a lot lot cheaper.
It's a sorry state of affairs when some of the best looking businesses in the high street are charity shops!
It's expensive to change a shop front, and yet people do it and it makes no difference to how someone views their business.
A lick of paint and well considered, SIMPLE signage is a lot lot cheaper.
chemists
Smart Chaps got rid of their shop front too a few weeks, did anyone notice this?
I think the people who lease these shops either don't understand the regulations or take a chance because what will the council do if they don't comply - fine them? I have no idea what the reprecussions are.
Maybe there needs to be a planning process of some kind before they can be changed, and maybe some should be protected at all costs if poss - eg the chemists but some could be changed if they use high quality materials and design....surely...(I will repeat my idea of a pack which could be given to new leasees with contacts etc of good sign companies, costs some drawings of good design)
How exactly is the wooden only thing to work? Is there any high street which has this rule - surely not. Wouldn't it look a bit bland if they did? I can't say I have looked at every shop on Beckenham high street of Lordship Lane but I am sure there is some variety there.
But I do know that the owner of one shop who wants to change his shop front and LBL are not allowing him to go for anything other than wood and he told me it would cost him an extra £4,000 and he is fuming with the Sydenham Society about it.
I think the people who lease these shops either don't understand the regulations or take a chance because what will the council do if they don't comply - fine them? I have no idea what the reprecussions are.
Maybe there needs to be a planning process of some kind before they can be changed, and maybe some should be protected at all costs if poss - eg the chemists but some could be changed if they use high quality materials and design....surely...(I will repeat my idea of a pack which could be given to new leasees with contacts etc of good sign companies, costs some drawings of good design)
How exactly is the wooden only thing to work? Is there any high street which has this rule - surely not. Wouldn't it look a bit bland if they did? I can't say I have looked at every shop on Beckenham high street of Lordship Lane but I am sure there is some variety there.
But I do know that the owner of one shop who wants to change his shop front and LBL are not allowing him to go for anything other than wood and he told me it would cost him an extra £4,000 and he is fuming with the Sydenham Society about it.
I’m not sure this is the same situation. This was a VERY unique, historic, intact frontage. I don’t know the laws or the regulations, I just think a really great opportunity has been ruined – if it is indeed the case that they have simply tossed it all in a skip.
I am kicking myself in the head because I was looking into trying to open a restaurant in that space; making the old front the main focus of the design. If I had moved a bit faster, that beautiful shop would still be intact.
I have to say, if they have chucked the protected parts, I don’t think I will be giving whatever opens in there my business and will do my best to make sure any of my local friends don’t either.
Is that wrong?
I am kicking myself in the head because I was looking into trying to open a restaurant in that space; making the old front the main focus of the design. If I had moved a bit faster, that beautiful shop would still be intact.
I have to say, if they have chucked the protected parts, I don’t think I will be giving whatever opens in there my business and will do my best to make sure any of my local friends don’t either.
Is that wrong?
Personally, I will boycott this shop whatever it turns out to be if the frontage is "spoiled". And I will actively oppose any change to A3 use. And I will encourage others to do so.
The real disgrace is that this shop is owned by a current high street trader - someone with every aim to respectability - leading member of the Federation of Small Businesses, member of the health trust etc. What about obeying the law mate?
The real disgrace is that this shop is owned by a current high street trader - someone with every aim to respectability - leading member of the Federation of Small Businesses, member of the health trust etc. What about obeying the law mate?
I will also boycott the shop if it removes the frontage.
I thought that Smart Chaps made a huge mistake in changing their frontage, the new one looks horrible.
Lewisham Council are not very good at enforcing rules so shops get away with anything unless there is a song and dance made about it (one good example is speedycabs in Brockley, they were made to change their plastic illuminated sign in favour of a painted sign which actually looks much better..and was cheaper!
Not sure about the wood frontage rule, I enquired about it a few years ago and had a set of guidelines but mostly it talked about the types of shutters you can have (you have be be able to see through them) and they were outlawing plastic back-lit signs (although they totally ignored this despite my protests where I used to live).
All glasI agree with Poppy that the council should produce a pack for potential investors in the area with examples of preferred shop fronts, approximate costs and case studies, examples of good design and signage and simple, EASY TO FOLLOW guidelines for what they can or can do. It would cost the council about £5,000-£10,000 to get a decent design group to produce these.
Bring back raised lettering, simple or original shop fronts, sign writing and get rid of the clutter. Stop wasting money of cheap replacement shop fronts.
I thought that Smart Chaps made a huge mistake in changing their frontage, the new one looks horrible.
Lewisham Council are not very good at enforcing rules so shops get away with anything unless there is a song and dance made about it (one good example is speedycabs in Brockley, they were made to change their plastic illuminated sign in favour of a painted sign which actually looks much better..and was cheaper!
Not sure about the wood frontage rule, I enquired about it a few years ago and had a set of guidelines but mostly it talked about the types of shutters you can have (you have be be able to see through them) and they were outlawing plastic back-lit signs (although they totally ignored this despite my protests where I used to live).
All glasI agree with Poppy that the council should produce a pack for potential investors in the area with examples of preferred shop fronts, approximate costs and case studies, examples of good design and signage and simple, EASY TO FOLLOW guidelines for what they can or can do. It would cost the council about £5,000-£10,000 to get a decent design group to produce these.
Bring back raised lettering, simple or original shop fronts, sign writing and get rid of the clutter. Stop wasting money of cheap replacement shop fronts.
I don’t want to divert from the theme of this thread but there’s been a similar situation in the Thorpes. There’s a house that is owned by the housing authority. A few weeks back they removed all the sash windows and replaced them with really ugly PVC windows. It is truly amazing that the council can tell us what we can and can’t do in a conservation district, then do what it wishes to with it’s own property –property that we, in essence, own as tax payers. Its utterly shameful and a waste of time and money. I now know that both issues have been raised with the council and, apparently, actions are taking place.
I still wish someone could go and see what they have done with the frontage and salvage it if possible.
I still wish someone could go and see what they have done with the frontage and salvage it if possible.
Just requoting this as nasaroc seems to have confirmed already that the shopfront is being repaired and reinstated - or am I missing something?nasaroc wrote:But just to reassure those - like me - who want to preserve the shop front that this is happening.
The LBL enforcement officer was down at the shop within hours. Full marks to him and our local councillors for getting onto this issue straight away.
The developer has been served with a Planning Contravention Notice. He has subsequently told the enforcement officer that the shop front is being repaired and that he intends to do a "like for like" reinstatement. It's now a question of "watch this space".
I too hope the shopfront is saved. Not round here but there was a beautiful deco-style shop front in Camberwell which I always admired when passing which has recently gone.
Even if these things cannot be enforced, I think the idea of 'design guidance' is a very good one.
There is an element of confusion about whether the shopfront has been taken away for refurbishment or whether a "replica" is being made to replace the old one. Of course, there should be no need for a replica - in this case the old window was in very good condition and just needed to be cleaned up and given a coat of paint/varnish.
Alarmingly, two local shopkeepers reported that they heard the old window "being smashed up" - it's not clear whether this was actually happening or it was just the sound of the old window being removed. Both these shopkeepers are enraged about the potential damage being done which goes to show that many of the more enlightened shopkeepers realise that attractive and varied shopfronts lead to a more attractive high street and "better business" all round.
And if you look at Sydenham Road there is a remarkable correlation between well-looked-after frontages and successful businesses. A great deal is being done locally to help our local businesses - a £2.5m road improvement scheme, a £1.3bn new rail scheme, plentiful parking spaces etc. All we want in return is for the shopkeepers and landlords to play their part in maintaining existing attractive frontages and keeping their business premises in order. That's not surely too much to ask.
(incidentally, Lee - extra requirements can be made on local shopkeepers since Sydenham Road is in a Conservation Area. Agree with you totally Coll - if the council can't even keep to their own rules in places which they own, what hope is there for the rest of Sydenham?)
Alarmingly, two local shopkeepers reported that they heard the old window "being smashed up" - it's not clear whether this was actually happening or it was just the sound of the old window being removed. Both these shopkeepers are enraged about the potential damage being done which goes to show that many of the more enlightened shopkeepers realise that attractive and varied shopfronts lead to a more attractive high street and "better business" all round.
And if you look at Sydenham Road there is a remarkable correlation between well-looked-after frontages and successful businesses. A great deal is being done locally to help our local businesses - a £2.5m road improvement scheme, a £1.3bn new rail scheme, plentiful parking spaces etc. All we want in return is for the shopkeepers and landlords to play their part in maintaining existing attractive frontages and keeping their business premises in order. That's not surely too much to ask.
(incidentally, Lee - extra requirements can be made on local shopkeepers since Sydenham Road is in a Conservation Area. Agree with you totally Coll - if the council can't even keep to their own rules in places which they own, what hope is there for the rest of Sydenham?)
I think some blame (if that is the right word) in these kinds of situations has to lay with the owners of the properties and the people who oversee the rentals. Perhaps it is just an urban myth that the shop front is protected although we were told that by the estate agents. Surely if we were told that then whoever is currently leasing it was also told that, unless it wasn't really true.
Maybe they are just cleaning the window and intend to return it.? I have no idea but hope so.
Anyway if they do not return the window I am sure most people on this forum will vote with their Latte and go elsewhere.
If not , is this a case when the fine is so low it is not worth bothering about. I have no idea what the penalties are. Does anyone know.
Anyway if they do not return the window I am sure most people on this forum will vote with their Latte and go elsewhere.
If not , is this a case when the fine is so low it is not worth bothering about. I have no idea what the penalties are. Does anyone know.
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Steve Grindlay
- Posts: 606
- Joined: 4 Oct 2004 05:07
- Location: Upper Sydenham
It would be an appalling act of vandalism if this shopfront has been destroyed. I guess it dates from the late 1920s, when George Machray moved his business from 12 Sydenham Road (he began trading there in about 1905) to 16 Sydenham Road.
This is what we might have lost:
I've uploaded a couple more pictures here
This is what we might have lost:
I've uploaded a couple more pictures here