I know the debate about different types of pub has been discussed a lot already. However, I'm interested in what sort of pub/bar Sydenham needs (or is currently missing).
The Greyhound (if made into a pub) is in a prime, central location so this may flavour which type of pub should go there.
My own view is that there are plenty of old-style pubs in Syd (which is good as they're my favourite!); the Dolphin and Woodman provide a classier, 'eaty' venue; however, I can't think of any bars/wine bar type establishment though (these being my least fave!)?
I was asked in the Townhall whether I was taking the pee when I said I'd like to see a Lloyds No 1 Bar here. No, I wasn't - I would like to see such a bar in Syd. However, I'm not sure that the Greyhound site would be the best venue.
So, can Syd sustain another 'classy' gastropub at the Greyhound site? Should it be more of a bar for the younger Sydenhamites who currently have to go to FH for their pubs/bars? Would a wine-bar be welcomed there?
(ps: Eagle, I didn't mean to 'diss' the Windmill earlier when I said it still had a Wetherspoons feel - this is probably my favourite pub in Syd!)
What sort of pub would you like the Greyhound to be?
Gaz, I think alot of the old style pubs in the area are under extreme pressure. My local, the Alfred has taken to closing early because of lack of trade, the Man of Kent has gone and even the Two Halves looks to emptier than usual. I was in the Woodman on Tuesday and it had one customer at around 9.30, who left after I arrived. The railway was busy last night becuase ofthe football.
So to answer your question; the only pubs I could see as viable are a sports bar type place which shows the football (ironically the Greyhound use to be packed for the football) or a high end gastro pub, The Dartmouth Arms was busy on Tuesday, as was the Dolphin on Monday.
So to answer your question; the only pubs I could see as viable are a sports bar type place which shows the football (ironically the Greyhound use to be packed for the football) or a high end gastro pub, The Dartmouth Arms was busy on Tuesday, as was the Dolphin on Monday.
The strange thing is Gaz, that whenever i have been in a wetherspoon pub it has been absolutely packed so they must be doing something right i guess, personally i love the buz of busy places, so i do actually like the wetherspoon type pub with the little alcove type sitting areas etc, but i don't really think the Grayhound would be suitable, it would be nicer to have a Harvester or something with reasonably priced food maybe?
simon wrote:Gaz, I think alot of the old style pubs in the area are under extreme pressure. My local, the Alfred has taken to closing early because of lack of trade, the Man of Kent has gone and even the Two Halves looks to emptier than usual. I was in the Woodman on Tuesday and it had one customer at around 9.30, who left after I arrived. The railway was busy last night becuase ofthe football.
So to answer your question; the only pubs I could see as viable are a sports bar type place which shows the football (ironically the Greyhound use to be packed for the football) or a high end gastro pub, The Dartmouth Arms was busy on Tuesday, as was the Dolphin on Monday.
Unfortunately the whole wet treade is under a lot of pressure at the moment. Hundreds are closing each year....some estimates say that around 7500 will go by 2012. One reason (on top of the credit crunch) is that the chancellor insists on increasing beer duty year on year...
Personally I'd like a decent real ale pub that sold microbrews et al. but that's a selfish view as it would detract custom from other local pubs - spreading thin an already thin customer base.
Personally I think its unwise for anyone to open a pub at the moment. Trendy, Gastro, Traditional or otherwise - Which is utterly tragic.
Bensonby
You seem surprised by the closure of The Man of Kent. The surpise it stayed open so long.
The Alfred had a good spell in the early 70's. Have not been in it for years but when passing does not look very inviting
The 2 halves . What can one say.
Having drunk in Sydenham Pubs since the middle 60's I would say only two worth mentioning now are The Windmill ( excellent beer and nice atmosphere ) Dolphin ( excellent food , drink mostly good but range limited)
Should also mention Golden Lion for quality of beers .
I regret following have had their day Talma , Fox and Hounds , Woodman ( used to be OK in 1970 when Red was landlord ) Brick ( Great in 70's , no comment now ).
Railway (what can one say ) .
You seem surprised by the closure of The Man of Kent. The surpise it stayed open so long.
The Alfred had a good spell in the early 70's. Have not been in it for years but when passing does not look very inviting
The 2 halves . What can one say.
Having drunk in Sydenham Pubs since the middle 60's I would say only two worth mentioning now are The Windmill ( excellent beer and nice atmosphere ) Dolphin ( excellent food , drink mostly good but range limited)
Should also mention Golden Lion for quality of beers .
I regret following have had their day Talma , Fox and Hounds , Woodman ( used to be OK in 1970 when Red was landlord ) Brick ( Great in 70's , no comment now ).
Railway (what can one say ) .
No, not surprised at all....indeed, I never went near the place...Eagle wrote:Bensonby
You seem surprised by the closure of The Man of Kent. The surpise it stayed open so long.
The prince alfred unfortunately lost my custom when they stopped selling real ale. I liked the little lounge area in there...
That's not a bad shout, actually, and I think such a pub would be successful in the Greyhound building if it also incorporated high-quality (Gastro-?) food. I'm thinking of the Meantime microbrewery type pubs such as the Greenwich Union.bensonby wrote:Personally I'd like a decent real ale pub that sold microbrews et al. but that's a selfish view as it would detract custom from other local pubs - spreading thin an already thin customer base.
The Perry Hill seems to be doing ok too.
The Golden Lion is packed when they have jazz.
The Prince Alfred looks awful from the outside and puts off a lot of people.
The Dolphin looks great and you can actually see people inside enjoying themselves.
The problem with a lot of pubs (and local business) is that they either look totally uninviting and just seem to expect people to walk through the door no matter what.
Look at the Honour Oak. People talk about it, it has good food and holds different events.
I'd like the Greyhound to be a social hub, where they have do things other pubs don't do like:
• Quiz Nights.
• Comedy nights (I always went to my local when they had these).
• Theme food nights (curry night,steak night etc). the honour Oak does these and they are great).
• Totally agree with a the micro brewery idea. Zero Degrees in Blackheath is nice, although it does get busy).
• Games room/childrens area. I've been to pubs that have oversize Jenga, garden games etc and families love it.
• Great British food at a reasonable price. Locally sourced woudl be nice. Pies cooked in a large tray like in the good old days and not those stupid little dishes with an exploding pastry lid that tastes of air.
• A selection of real ales, possibly served from a barrel behind the bar. St Peters Ales would be nice to have like the great Old Jeruselem bar in Clerkenwell.
• I hope it looks great and pays homage to the building without looking like a museum. NO Gawdy Graphics.
• Personally I'd prefer it not to have Tv screens.
(you did ask!).
The Golden Lion is packed when they have jazz.
The Prince Alfred looks awful from the outside and puts off a lot of people.
The Dolphin looks great and you can actually see people inside enjoying themselves.
The problem with a lot of pubs (and local business) is that they either look totally uninviting and just seem to expect people to walk through the door no matter what.
Look at the Honour Oak. People talk about it, it has good food and holds different events.
I'd like the Greyhound to be a social hub, where they have do things other pubs don't do like:
• Quiz Nights.
• Comedy nights (I always went to my local when they had these).
• Theme food nights (curry night,steak night etc). the honour Oak does these and they are great).
• Totally agree with a the micro brewery idea. Zero Degrees in Blackheath is nice, although it does get busy).
• Games room/childrens area. I've been to pubs that have oversize Jenga, garden games etc and families love it.
• Great British food at a reasonable price. Locally sourced woudl be nice. Pies cooked in a large tray like in the good old days and not those stupid little dishes with an exploding pastry lid that tastes of air.
• A selection of real ales, possibly served from a barrel behind the bar. St Peters Ales would be nice to have like the great Old Jeruselem bar in Clerkenwell.
• I hope it looks great and pays homage to the building without looking like a museum. NO Gawdy Graphics.
• Personally I'd prefer it not to have Tv screens.
(you did ask!).
I'd be inclined to agree Leenewham. Pubs have to innovate to survive at the moment...Whilst I wouldn't like any pub to be overtaken by its other "themes" to become, ostensibly, something else (like a restaurant or a music club) the fact of the matter is that they wont get the pubters through the door unless they offer something different.
Somewhere that focuses on grreat beer would be an example of "offering something different" - however, I still maintian that in the current climate opening a new pub would be an extremely brave move.
(and St Peter's beer is gorgeous
)
Somewhere that focuses on grreat beer would be an example of "offering something different" - however, I still maintian that in the current climate opening a new pub would be an extremely brave move.
(and St Peter's beer is gorgeous
)-
catscratch
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KM: I hardly ever go to the pubs in Syd - but am usually out locally elsewhere, mainly in FH - so there is definitely something missing from the current pubs. I also feel that there isn't really a venue that readily attracts younger Sydenhamites to go out in the local area.
The Greyhound being the gateway to Syd should remain a pub IMO so it can be an exciting, accessible focal point.
Lee: A social hub is indeed what this site has the potential to become. Your ideas are great and immediately reminded me of the Hob in FH (although I'm not aware that they do great food in there also!). I'd love to see a pub here that regularly showed live bands (new acts, not just tribute singers etc), stand-ups, quiz nights, pool competitions and so on.
The Greyhound being the gateway to Syd should remain a pub IMO so it can be an exciting, accessible focal point.
Lee: A social hub is indeed what this site has the potential to become. Your ideas are great and immediately reminded me of the Hob in FH (although I'm not aware that they do great food in there also!). I'd love to see a pub here that regularly showed live bands (new acts, not just tribute singers etc), stand-ups, quiz nights, pool competitions and so on.
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catscratch
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nork1
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The Hob is a good call.Gaz wrote:Your ideas are great and immediately reminded me of the Hob in FH (although I'm not aware that they do great food in there also!). I'd love to see a pub here that regularly showed live bands (new acts, not just tribute singers etc), stand-ups, quiz nights, pool competitions and so on.
The bit about great food shouldn't be an issue - pubs like the Hob and the Alma in CP show that pubs can be run successfully as pubs without having to go down the gastro route of putting the priority on food.