New Zebra Crossing on Railway Bridge

Pat Trembath · Post by **Pat Trembath** » 19 Oct 2004 11:53

I am reliably informed that a Site Safety Audit is currently being conducted by Lewisham Council Highways Dept and the Traffic Police at Catford.

The good news is that this crossing will remain closed until such time as the audit has been completed.

Residents of Sydenham can wait with baited breath to find out whether it will reopen at the same site with modifications or, like the loathed roundabout, be removed (I dont think one can "demolish" a zebra crossing) and relocated elsewhere in the Cobbs Corner area.

Dont forget all this was part of a Pedestrian Accident Reduction scheme and on 8 November we will celebrate the first anniversary of the start of this scheme. Anyone have any ideas of how to mark this auspicious day?

Ella · Post by **Ella** » 20 Oct 2004 10:37

Its good that the crossing is closed but the small traffic island between the station and Venner Road has also gone so now there is nowhere safe for anyone to cross the road! Commuters who have run the gauntlet of the rail system now play Russian roulette crossing the road.

Muddy Waters · Post by **Muddy Waters** » 21 Oct 2004 21:18

Re 8 November anniversary.

One suggestion for the anniversary of this inauspicious occasion is to invite the designers of this wonderful Pedestrian Accident Reduction scheme to sit in some stocks on the middle of the wobbly roundabout and accept their accolade from passing pedestrians and motorists.

Does anyone have access to some stocks? and rotten cabbages, tomatoes, eggs etc?

If not, what else can residents suggest? Surely we must mark this important moment in Sydenham's history

Pat Trembath · Post by **Pat Trembath** » 23 Oct 2004 17:02

Letter received from Lewisham Council states amongst other things ".....the design of the zebra crossing included an independent road safety audit at design stage. Subsequent to the opening of the zebra crossing, concern was raised about the saftey of this facility. The crossing has therefore been closed until the final safety audit has been completed and any additional issues raised by that audit have been addressed. The crossing is therefore likely to remain closed for a few weeks....."

Geoff Crossingham · Post by **Geoff Crossingham** » 24 Oct 2004 11:53

I agree with the need for a crossing but the chosen site is just crazy. As soon as I saw the work begin on building the crossing it was immediately obvious to me, and to many more judging by the number of postings on this site, that planners had given little thought to practicalities and safety of pedestrians and road users.

The crossing is blind and it would seem that the planners must have realised their mistake in their location of it, and its consequential problems, by lowering the beacons and installing additional lamps to light up from above pedestrians using the crossing. Great, not only are car drivers, motor cyclists and pedal cyclists given problems of a blind crossing they are to be dazzled by what appear to be very powerful lamp units as they come up the hill. This is additional to the dazzle of headlamps of vehicles coming over the bridge. Pedestrians will never be easily seen by drivers approaching the brow.

Sorry, but this is a mad decision and one has to ask oneself if our councillors are employing officials and consultants who have real expertise in road safety planning and care for residents safety rather than adhere to what is sometimes crazy road planning for its own sake.

I'm not anti-crossing, I walk as well as drive and use pedestrian crossings like everyone else, if a crossing has to be installed, it would better located, as has been suggested, between the brow of the hill and the roundabout. However, if the main reason for the crossing is for those using the station, can the rail companies do anything for their customers by creating access for pedestrians on both sides of the bridge so that they may cross under it?

People of all ages and abilities cross the road by the islands and so locating a crossing near there would seem a more natural and safer location and I for one would be happier using a crossing there than on the brow on the bridge.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » 24 Oct 2004 15:29

Geoff - how right you are!

Today as I was coming back from Safeways - I saw that the left hand beacon has been lowered so it is now completely hidden behind the triangular sign for the island. I could not believe it - taking a problem about sightlines and making it worse.

Don't they check?

At the beginning of this exercise it was just a matter of pointing out a mistake. We all make mistakes - and intelligent people listen and learn so as not to repeat the process.

This (and the earlier Cobbs Corner saga) suggests to me there is something rather more seriously deficient in Lewisham's ability to consider the safety of its citizens.

A new picture to show how crazy this is getting has been added to:

http://www.sydenham.org.uk/news_zebra_crossing.html

I know some councillors use this website. Why are you not commenting on what is, after all, your responsibility?

Ella · Post by **Ella** » 25 Oct 2004 08:37

I heard in the hairdressers on Saturday that one of the reasons the crossing had been closed was because the beacons were placed in such a manner that train drivers approaching Sydenham station (especially in the dark) thought the lights were train signals. Looking at them this morning from up platform you can see exactly what this means. The belisher beacons are immediately above the signals! Obviously another case of joined up planning.

Muddy Waters · Post by **Muddy Waters** » 25 Oct 2004 16:15

That's clever - so the trains stop when people want to cross the road - that an innovative idea for a transport interchange - real joined up thinking

stone-penge · Post by **stone-penge** » 5 Nov 2004 15:09

I too thought the crossing was/is in a stupid poisition. the only way for it to be safe would be to install traffic lights but thats not going to help the traffic flows which have already being reduced by the slimming down of the kirkdale approach to Cobbs corner roundabout.
What was that meant to achive?

Post by **admin** » 7 Nov 2004 19:23

Yes Lewisham have done it again - making a bad situation even worse. When the crossing was open you couldn't see the beacons. Now it is closed they have just made the beacons visible causing even more confusion to motorists. All this when presumably the final resting place of the crossing (and our highway engineers?) is yet to be decided.

But to cap it all they have moved the traffic island sign - and now also made that nearly invisible (see latest pictures on link below).

Sadly the wobbly island itself is visible....too visible?

Oh dear...

http://www.sydenham.org.uk/news_zebra_crossing.html

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 8 Nov 2004 18:35

As it is probable that the majority of pedestians using the crossing will be going to or coming from Sydenham station, the crossing has to be sited as close as possible to the station to remain effective. Moving it too far away would merely mean that pedestrians would not use it, and continue to cross the road by dodging through moving traffic. If an alternative, less dangerous siting for the Zebra crossing cannot be found within the stretch of road where it is most needed, surely an obvious solution would be to convert it to a Pelican crossing, controlled by traffic lights which should be clearly visible to motorists approaching from both directions? This would also mean that lights would not be seen by drivers of trains on the lines passing beneath the bridge.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » 10 Nov 2004 15:54

Looks like Lewisham intend to re-open the crossing!

New warning signs have just appeared. Whether people who don't spot the roundabout will see the signs is another matter. I've updated the report with latest picture here:

http://www.sydenham.org.uk/news_zebra_crossing.html

What do you think?

Muddy Waters · Post by **Muddy Waters** » 24 Nov 2004 08:43

Well over a month now since it closed - maybe new signage but no signs of it re-opening or of any other safe method of crossing this road.

Meanwhile Sydenhamites continue to dodge the traffic.

Paddy Pantsdown · Post by **Paddy Pantsdown** » 24 Nov 2004 09:44

And all in the name of safety according to Kafka Towers, Katford.

What ever happened to our councillors? First the roundabout, then the crossing - now CPZ & Car Park charging.

Are they fighting for us - or selling us out? It would be nice to hear from one once in a while between elections. I did just receive a Jim Dowd flyer through the letterbox. But did it address any of these issues? No way!

It makes me really angry and frustrated. Trouble is I bet the Tories or LibDems would not act very much differently. It seems all the politicians will spin when they can and then go to ground over difficult issues.

And be shocked at 30% turnouts.....

stuart · Post by **stuart** » 25 Nov 2004 13:50

Conways/Lewisham have struck again!

The workmen carefully unveiled the new "New Zebra Crossing Open" signs either side of the crossing. But it is still closed and unless they are blind they can see that.

So we have two sets of signs about a crossing that can't be seen saying opposite things.

It would appear we are descending to even higher levels of incompetence and contempt for pedestrians and motorists. This issue is beyond a joke. People's lives are at risk and the person responsible for this debacle should be held to account.

Pat Trembath · Post by **Pat Trembath** » 25 Nov 2004 18:01

HOT NEWS!!

Sydenham Society has learned that the zebra crossing will be fully operational as from tomorrow.

Presumably it will have passed its Site Safety Audit. We wait to see what additional safety measures have been implemented, if any.

Pat Trembath · Post by **Pat Trembath** » 26 Nov 2004 15:12

Damp squib so far despite an e-mail from Lewisham's Head of Traffic and Parking yesterday stating that the zebra would be "fully operational" today. An enquiry has been made to the council in order to clarify the situation.

There is new signage and the belisha beacon lights have been switched on so it looks as though something may happen shortly. We will have to wait and see whether any new safety measures have been incorporated.

Pat Trembath · Post by **Pat Trembath** » 26 Nov 2004 22:42

Well it's open!

At 6.00 pm tonight there were no barriers to stop pedestrians crossing and later at 9.50 pm it was being used.

So far so good - are our fears regarding safety allayed?

Please let this Forum know how you see it as a pedestrian and as a motorist.

Muddy Waters · Post by **Muddy Waters** » 27 Nov 2004 14:11

The signage at Cobbs Corner is OK and is close to the single line traffic. The signage by HSBC is higher up the lamp post and there are parking bays between it and the moving traffic coming up hill. It is also likely to be obscured by a hanging basket in the spring.

The sightlines coming up from Sydenham remain the same - there is no change here during daylight. I think it is still dangerous.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » 27 Nov 2004 22:14

I saw a near miss this morning. A guy was halfway acroos when a car from the roundabout failed to give way. The driver did apologise when he realised what he had done - but a few seconds difference may have made an incident a tragedy.

I then went into the the dry cleaners and he said there had been two near misses already that morning.

I feel that we are skating on thin ice here. I pray that we are wrong and and the council are right. I hope events don't prove otherwise.

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New Zebra Crossing on Railway Bridge

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