Seats on the train

Barty · Post by **Barty** » 15 Dec 2008 21:36

.....They are as a proportion of a 15 minute journey though...

This is the other problem when passengers complain. They naturally have a very self-centred view of their journey....they go for their train from their station and if their train is late or cancelled they are not happy. This is absolutely and totally understandable, but what you have to remember is that your fifteen minute journey is a tiny proportion of the total miles that the particular train you're getting on is going to travel during the course of the day.

Any delays that train incurs on any one of the journeys it makes will have a knock-on effect for the rest of the day....and as well as worrying about where the train is throughout the day, train planners also have to worry about where the driver is, because, like any sort of driver, they can only work so long before they have to have a break, and they also have to travel to work...usually on other trains....which may have been delayed....etc etc etc.

Hey, guys, I am a rail passenger too as well as a rail worker. I've stood on a cold platform waiting longer than I should have done for a train, and I've got frustrated about it!

The only difference between me and you is that I have some insight into why things happen.

(and I don't mind being a "punchbag" - as above I do understand passenger frustration! My mission is to educate! If even one person stops to think a little more when they hear that announcement saying "I'm sorry to advise...." and is a little less vitriolic when they speak to a member of railway staff, then my work is done

)

bensonby · Post by **bensonby** » 15 Dec 2008 21:54

I absolutely understand. But the simple fact of the matter is people want, and expect, to receive the service that they have paid (over the odds) for. If they don't get that service they don't really care about any excuses and won't be happy either way.

Barty · Post by **Barty** » 15 Dec 2008 22:07

Even if you could somehow ensure that the infrastructure was top-notch and the rolling-stock was clean, tidy and perfectly maintained, you would still have late running trains, because you would still have problems occuring that are not caused by any of the (far too many IMHO) railway companies.

People will still commit suicide by jumping in front of trains. People will still be taken ill on trains which then have to wait whilst ambulances are called to them. People will still drive their cars around level crossing barriers and be struck by a train. People's dogs/sheep/cows will still wander onto rail lines and be run over/electrocuted. Floods will still affect the rail's power supply.

All incidents that have occured whilst I have been working for Southern, sometimes on several occasions, and none of them caused by Southern itself, or preventable by anyone at Southern.

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » 15 Dec 2008 22:48

A few things that annoy me are mainly to do with insuffient or incorrect information: For example, a few weeks back no trains were stopping at Sydenham station and the recorded/electronic tannoy message was telling us this was, "due to adverse rail conditions in the London metro area", making it sound like ice (although it wasn't too cold then!) or similar problems up the line - and so we waited, and waited for a train to stop at the platform... However, the problem was that actually a train had broken down at Honor Oak Park and so the trains that should have stopped at Syd had to by-pass us. If we had been told this was the reason we'd have tried to make other ways in rather than be late for work by about an hour!

And...

When you make it into work red-faced from hurrying and red-faced from having to explain (to frankly disbelieving colleagues) why you are late once again, there isn't a statement on the Southern website apologising or even stating that there was a problem that morning!

There may be info displayed in the ticket office about upcoming works - it would be helpful to have a poster on platform 1 as well.

The excuse about longer trains not being used now doesn't really stack up. There are 6 carriage-trains being used during the rush hour that could easily be 8 carriages long instead. Also, SWT manage to run trains that are longer than some station platforms and simply advise passengers that they need to travel in the front/rear carriages.

Oh - and what about some more shelters on platform 1? The existing 2 are totally inadequate.

(Thanks for your time! Gaz)

lambchops · Post by **lambchops** » 15 Dec 2008 23:28

Nickerbockers wrote: what about shorter people who can't reach to hang on over their heads?

they should have thought about this when not eating their brussel sprouts as kids.

Barty · Post by **Barty** » 16 Dec 2008 09:15

However, the problem was that actually a train had broken down at Honor Oak Park and so the trains that should have stopped at Syd had to by-pass us.

I can recall a passenger being taken ill at Forest Hill which had the same effect, trains through Sydenham being diverted onto the fast lines up the middle and unable to stop.

I remember that morning very well indeed......it was my good self that all you commuters at Sydenham were shouting at down the Help Point.

The problem myself and my colleagues have in times of disruption is that we are not the people who decide what is going to run and what is going to be cancelled. We receive that information from the train controllers, and we make announcements and put notices on screens based on what we are told.

If they change their minds, based on changing circumstances, we then have to change the information we give out. Which can be more annoying to passengers...

Take our ill passenger at FH incident. We didn't know when the ambulance was gonna turn up, or how long they would be treating the ill passenger on the train. We could not tell you guys at Sydenham that the 0800 would go straight through but the 0810 would stop (fictional times!!!) because we didn't know!! I didn't want to tell everyone to get on a 75 bus and go to Norwood Junction for a fast train because for all I knew, by the time you'd got there, they would be stopping at Syd again!

You've also got to remember that we are looking after not just Sydenham, but every station in a triangle between London Bridge/Victoria, Southampton and Hastings!

Nickerbockers · Post by **Nickerbockers** » 16 Dec 2008 09:27

You seem a good person to ask Barty, could you explain why every morning the trains are running late these last two weeks? And why every morning the excuse is "a fault on a preceding train". I mean it can't be that every morning can it? And if it is, they clearly need to do some work on their trains to get them running better.

Barty · Post by **Barty** » 16 Dec 2008 09:58

Nickerbockers - trains can only "overtake" each other in places where the track layout allows it......so if a preceding train is delayed, any that come along behind it are also delayed.

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » 16 Dec 2008 17:52

Barty wrote: I can recall a passenger being taken ill at Forest Hill which had the same effect, trains through Sydenham being diverted onto the fast lines up the middle and unable to stop.

Yes, this is the specific incident I meant.

FWIW, I wasn't one of the commuters shouting into the Help Point as I was at the other (far) end of the platform relying on the recorded tannoy announcement giving me (incorrect) information! As I said, if the correct information was relayed over the tannoys then it would have allowed us to decide whether to wait for the trains (that were showing on the screen as being on time) or whether to conclude it'd be better to take another route in.

Not wishing to berate you at all (as it is good getting info from the horse's mouth, as it were!) and I know that you are not 'Southern trains' but I think the other points I raised are also valid and in particular would welcome your views on whether it'd be feasible to have longer trains operating in this area (where commuters are told front 8 carriages if you want to alight at Syd, for example).

Gaz

Barty · Post by **Barty** » 16 Dec 2008 20:11

My own personal view is that if you are routinely running trains which are longer than the platforms they stop at, you have the potential for people to be getting stuck on trains and missing their stops because they've forgotten to move through to the correct part of the train. Not all passengers (well, in fact, to be frank, not many passengers) have as much....i dunno....common sense as regular travellers who know what they're doing. You're gonna get people pulling the alarm cord to say to the driver "you've stopped too short, I can't get off".....driver has to reset the train's systems to disengage the brakes = delays = "your train is delayed due to a preceding train running late" = complaints.

It works where it happens now (Whyteleafe I think, or somewhere down the Caterham line) because that station has room for seven coaches (normal train length being 3 4 or 6) and 8-coach trains are quite rare. If you're regularly running 12 coach trains on 8 coach-length platforms its gonna get tricky.

I haven't really commented much on your other points because I either don't have the necessary knowledge or am not in a position within Southern where I can do anything about your suggestions! You make a good point about informing people of delays after the event, though. If information about current delays can be displayed on Southern's website, why can't information about delays in the recent past? Something I can mention. Although you must realise that I am but a small cog in a big machine! And a cog that has not been part of that machine for very long......

Barty · Post by **Barty** » 16 Dec 2008 21:44

What train from Syd will anybody be catching tomorrow morning?

Nickerbockers · Post by **Nickerbockers** » 17 Dec 2008 08:43

I caught the 7.57am this morning, and all seemed okay for once. Though the 7.53 was a few mins late. I have noticed though that the 7.57 is no longer that lovely modern train with loads of room and seats with tables and loads of window for everyone who's seated... it's just a bog-standard train now with less room and barely any seats with views out the window. That's a bit of a bummer!!

Barty · Post by **Barty** » 17 Dec 2008 08:54

Yes, it was a little.

Barty was watching!!!!

many rush-hour trains end up a minute or two late a many stations simply becauase of the sheer numbers of commuters trying to get on and off them.

Howver, a points failure at east Croydon is now beginning to foul things up a little!

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » 17 Dec 2008 10:12

Thanks for your replies, Barty.

I know Southern do consultations every now and then (usu at London Bridge during rush hour when I'm already running late!). I think it shows from the amount of engagement you've had that if they had a forum set up (or visited sites such as this) they would receive plenty of feedback (good or bad!).

Cheers

Gaz
ps - on 0833 this morning, only 3 minutes late and some space to sit for us Sydenhamites!

Barty · Post by **Barty** » 17 Dec 2008 10:42

I would ask what train home you all get, but being as I was out of my pit in time for the 0601 Sutton service this morning I shall be leaving here shortly after 1400 and happily surfing STF by the time you're all coming home

Nickerbockers · Post by **Nickerbockers** » 17 Dec 2008 10:50

Trains home are a sore point... London Bridge have bloody changed all the times, and some of the destinations!?? My cushy number, the 5.15pm that I always went for instead of running from work just to cram myself like a sardine onto the 5.05pm now no longer exists... there's a 5.05pm then a 5.19pm, somewhere between that, there's a fast train which doesn't stop at Sydenham. Great news for people living in Norwood - not that great for the likes of us! So it's the 5.19pm for me now!

Barty · Post by **Barty** » 17 Dec 2008 11:06

Awww

in any timetable change there aare always winners and losers, I suppose Southern try to ensure there are more winners than losers, whilst doing what they are told by the Government.

Passenger groups together with Network rail and Southern identified major capacity problems between London and Brighton, so some Gatwick Express services now run further south to serve Brighton as well.

Good news for Brighton....bad for East Croydon, where these extended services no longer call...

Winners and losers....

I wonder if your missing train was a Smitham service Nickerbockers? These no longer run

Barty · Post by **Barty** » 17 Dec 2008 11:15

Gaz, yeah these Meet The Manager sessions are a bit tricky - you have to hold them at London termini or major interchanges to catch the most people - if they went to every station they'd have no time to manage!!!! But as you say, by going to a London terminal, they are there when you're either rushing to work and aren't able to stop and talk, or desperate to get home and can't be ar$ed to stop and talk!!!

Anyone got any sensible solutions to this?

fishcox · Post by **fishcox** » 17 Dec 2008 13:43

Where is the best place to get a list of all the trains from London Bridge to Sydenham in the evening?

Just been on the TfL website, which I've always found a bit hit and miss, to be honest.

Last night was a bun fight, with people running all over the shop at London Bridge.

I thought there might at least be some sort of warning that the timetable was changing, but then that would be too sensible a thing to do.

Also, are there no fast trains to Forest Hill anymore? The 1755 and the 1825 (see earlier parts of this thread) were my saviour. Please dont tell me they no longer exist.

Barty · Post by **Barty** » 17 Dec 2008 13:50

..Where is the best place to get a list of all the trains from London Bridge to Sydenham in the evening?

go to this link http://mytimes.southernrailway.com/hafa ... p2w.exe/en where you can create a customised timetable for yourself between any two stations and print it out.

...I thought there might at least be some sort of warning that the timetable was changing, but then that would be too sensible a thing to do.

Recorded announcements have been playing at all Southern stations regularly for the past two weeks, posters advertising the change have been displayed at most stations, and messages have also been placed on the information screens.

I'll check on those London bridge departures and post again shortly

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Seats on the train