It's great to see some plans for the Greyhound and hopefully the extra shops will initiate some business and enterprise to the area.
With Sugahill, BMC, if Jam Circus come too and Kirkdale bookshop, along with the Greyhounds re-generation, and Station Approach looking good, I think it could look really quite nice round there.
All we need is for the wonky roundabout to be lawned over...!
NEW GREYHOUND - 1st IMPRESSIONS?
Maybe I am not looking at the same picturs. All I see is 6 or 7 story blocks of flats surrounding greyhound.
I support of all work of The Sydenham Society but fed up last week when noted the alcoholics bench in High Street donated by the Society. I assume for the elderly and handicapped to rest their weary bones.
What a result.
I support of all work of The Sydenham Society but fed up last week when noted the alcoholics bench in High Street donated by the Society. I assume for the elderly and handicapped to rest their weary bones.
What a result.
It is good to see plans for this, although I am afraid to echo the previous comments that it is highly unlikely that this will be built for some time given the current financial climate.
I accept that these are not the detailed plans which I look forward to seeing, but I have to say that the drawings do not fill me with great joy. Firstly the design is in my view poor. We should be looking a a high quality design and these are just slab blocks with little inovation. And they hardly complement the Greyhound building that I wasn't than keen on saving, but now it is we at least ought to try to get the new build to fit in with it, the old Cobbs building and the superb block above the bookshop etc.
I am also concerend as a resident of Peak Hill Gardens about the issues of massing, light and overlooking that will affect us. I will be particularly be interested in seeing how close these blocks are to the building line.
Finally I am really concenred about parking. Whislt the development does have excellent public transport links, it is I think unlikely that residents or their visitors will not have cars. There therefore needs to be adequate provision for this and also for the use of people shopping in the new shops or perhaps using new restaurants there. The surrounding roads are already heavily parked so some thought needs to be had on this.
So I really look forward to seeing the designs and being able to comment on them. I would have thought it good practice that there should be a public meeting and exhibition so that all local residents can come and have a detailed discussion with the applicants and the planners rather that this take place in a very formal and constricted planning committee meeting. Perhaps the Sydenham Society could facilitate this.
I accept that these are not the detailed plans which I look forward to seeing, but I have to say that the drawings do not fill me with great joy. Firstly the design is in my view poor. We should be looking a a high quality design and these are just slab blocks with little inovation. And they hardly complement the Greyhound building that I wasn't than keen on saving, but now it is we at least ought to try to get the new build to fit in with it, the old Cobbs building and the superb block above the bookshop etc.
I am also concerend as a resident of Peak Hill Gardens about the issues of massing, light and overlooking that will affect us. I will be particularly be interested in seeing how close these blocks are to the building line.
Finally I am really concenred about parking. Whislt the development does have excellent public transport links, it is I think unlikely that residents or their visitors will not have cars. There therefore needs to be adequate provision for this and also for the use of people shopping in the new shops or perhaps using new restaurants there. The surrounding roads are already heavily parked so some thought needs to be had on this.
So I really look forward to seeing the designs and being able to comment on them. I would have thought it good practice that there should be a public meeting and exhibition so that all local residents can come and have a detailed discussion with the applicants and the planners rather that this take place in a very formal and constricted planning committee meeting. Perhaps the Sydenham Society could facilitate this.
I'm normally one for a variety of archectual styles, but the dominant theme for that area is brick. So I would like to see a brick version of this building at the very least.
The shops might revitalise the area, if they are of good quality. But it's rather odd location may work against it - I'm sure we've all been to places where "hidden" shopping areas, close to bustling city centre locations, become a bit of a disused failed shop ghetto. I hope I'll be proved wrong.
In short: rather underwhelmed.
The shops might revitalise the area, if they are of good quality. But it's rather odd location may work against it - I'm sure we've all been to places where "hidden" shopping areas, close to bustling city centre locations, become a bit of a disused failed shop ghetto. I hope I'll be proved wrong.
In short: rather underwhelmed.
The more I look at the design, the less I think it suits the area. Sydenham has some lovely old architecture, and while modern and old can sit well alongside and compliment each other.... well, ultimately the flats look like big blocks, and big blocks don't really compliment anything. I can see this being one of those developments that just doesn't age well.
Further to earlier posts, I tend to think that this is a bold scheme and that the contrasting architectural style is a good backdrop for the sandblasted Greyhound (note the paint has now gone!). However tend to agree that the overall whiteness could be softened by punctuating every other block with yellow Victorian brick to suit the surrounding area. Anything more ornate or Victorian could detract/ clash from the Greyhound. The devil is in the detail with a lot of these schemes and quality of finishes etc. will go some way to determining the success or otherwise.
I don't think the development massing is over the top as many of the surrounding buildings are four storeys high, so the massing is quite appropriate for this location, particularly given the excellent public transport connections - existing and East London Line.
Being ever the optimist I hope that some of the planned development (e.g. Black Ant scheme next to Syd DIY) will actually get underway by summer '09 to coincide with the ELL opening 12 months later. I would imagine it will take some six months for the Greyhound to get planning consent, followed by an 18 month construction period, thus it would likely be fully developed by Dec' 2010, which should coincide with start of a slowly recovering housing market and further ELL effect on property prices in the local area.
I don't think the development massing is over the top as many of the surrounding buildings are four storeys high, so the massing is quite appropriate for this location, particularly given the excellent public transport connections - existing and East London Line.
Being ever the optimist I hope that some of the planned development (e.g. Black Ant scheme next to Syd DIY) will actually get underway by summer '09 to coincide with the ELL opening 12 months later. I would imagine it will take some six months for the Greyhound to get planning consent, followed by an 18 month construction period, thus it would likely be fully developed by Dec' 2010, which should coincide with start of a slowly recovering housing market and further ELL effect on property prices in the local area.
Personally I think contrast with the Greyhound building is a good thing, and am not sure a brick building would work, although don't mind the idea of limited amount of brick in the design as a 'nod' to the surrounding buildings.dickp wrote:I'm normally one for a variety of archectual styles, but the dominant theme for that area is brick. So I would like to see a brick version of this building at the very least.
I'm quite happy with a building which is distinctly 'modern' looking but in this high profile location - as others have said - it has got to be really excellent quality.
This worries me too - I know exactly the type of ghettos you mean (Archway springs to mind). I would really like to see a plan view and some different elevations as I'm concerned there will be poor sight-lines round the back of the Greyhound which will discourage people from using this as pedestrian route.But it's rather odd location may work against it - I'm sure we've all been to places where "hidden" shopping areas, close to bustling city centre locations, become a bit of a disused failed shop ghetto. I hope I'll be proved wrong.
Definitely a case of the devil being in the detail, I agree.
If the shops compliment one another then it will work.
The high street doesn't really work at the moment as the only butcher is a good 10 minutes walk from the grocer, it's tricky crossing the street to see one clothes shop after another and it's easier to go to Sainsbury's. Ideally you need to group shops that compliment one another close together. The only shops that do that at the moment are pound shops!
I think it's very difficult to judge the scheme from these tiny jpgs. I prefer the scheme being modern to contract with the buildings around it as stated above, but quality of materials and detailing needs to be top notch. Some awful pastiche of the buildings around them would be a disaster. I can't wait for the model and more information on finishes etc.
The high street doesn't really work at the moment as the only butcher is a good 10 minutes walk from the grocer, it's tricky crossing the street to see one clothes shop after another and it's easier to go to Sainsbury's. Ideally you need to group shops that compliment one another close together. The only shops that do that at the moment are pound shops!
I think it's very difficult to judge the scheme from these tiny jpgs. I prefer the scheme being modern to contract with the buildings around it as stated above, but quality of materials and detailing needs to be top notch. Some awful pastiche of the buildings around them would be a disaster. I can't wait for the model and more information on finishes etc.
I agree it is difficult to judge things just from an artist's impression. A model of the development should be on display in the Kirkdale Bookshop in about a week. The delay is to incorporate last minute changes made before submission to the council.
The plans were supposed to have be submitted on 19/11 but have yet to appear on Lewisham's planning database (Lewisham appear to have some problems keeping it up to date). I'll let you know when I spot them.
Admin
The plans were supposed to have be submitted on 19/11 but have yet to appear on Lewisham's planning database (Lewisham appear to have some problems keeping it up to date). I'll let you know when I spot them.
Admin
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SydenhamHillBilly
- Posts: 2
- Joined: 22 Oct 2008 18:24
- Location: Atop all of London
Something of a quandary, what what, this one.
Whilst I agree with the majority consensus here that locals are underwhelmed by the plans I must orate mine own view.
To revert to a less poncy turn of vocab...
To me, this is just an inversion of the original plans Milford submitted previously. Whereas the 'L' shaped development went toward 'pavement' building lines (and removed the Greyhound building) this one goes more toward 'railway' building lines in order to preserve the Greyhound. I cannot help but think that the residents of Peak Hill Gardens will live in perpetual darkness due to the massing? Sightlines and 'solar passing' must be paramount to approval.
On the plus side despite being a staunch advocate of Victoriana and abhorring most things modern/not over 100 years old architecture-wise I actually like the development. It puts me in mind not of the cheap developments to be found in Forest Hill/ Honor Oak Park or Brockley but more in mind of the ones to be found on the left edging toward L.Bridge...even Bermondsey Spa on the outward stretch. I like them. They are clean, uniform, offer security, sound-proofness, heat-proofness etc.
On the downside I am upset to see the Minton tiled entrance will [apparently] be bulldozed. This is after all something the SydSoc held dear. I cannot help but think that we could have covered the tiles in a weather-proof/shatter-proof even graffiti-proof clear covering and had this as a 'Wow' entrance to the shops and gastropubs and indeed the flats? The development itself though puts me in mind of West Greenwich and the Cutty Sark DLR development...which is positive
All in all, I agree the Devil must be in the detail but as things stand this is a welcome shot in the arm for Sydders and I. The current facade is suburban degradation on a huge scale. If this can go some way to emulating West Greenwich and the shops therein then it is great news. At the end of the day (without meaning to sound like a football manager) if we can get people paying good money for roof-terraces in a new-build in what is a busy/noisy/traffic-clogged/rat-run part of Sydders then I vote 'Yes'.
Thoughts?
Whilst I agree with the majority consensus here that locals are underwhelmed by the plans I must orate mine own view.
To revert to a less poncy turn of vocab...
To me, this is just an inversion of the original plans Milford submitted previously. Whereas the 'L' shaped development went toward 'pavement' building lines (and removed the Greyhound building) this one goes more toward 'railway' building lines in order to preserve the Greyhound. I cannot help but think that the residents of Peak Hill Gardens will live in perpetual darkness due to the massing? Sightlines and 'solar passing' must be paramount to approval.
On the plus side despite being a staunch advocate of Victoriana and abhorring most things modern/not over 100 years old architecture-wise I actually like the development. It puts me in mind not of the cheap developments to be found in Forest Hill/ Honor Oak Park or Brockley but more in mind of the ones to be found on the left edging toward L.Bridge...even Bermondsey Spa on the outward stretch. I like them. They are clean, uniform, offer security, sound-proofness, heat-proofness etc.
On the downside I am upset to see the Minton tiled entrance will [apparently] be bulldozed. This is after all something the SydSoc held dear. I cannot help but think that we could have covered the tiles in a weather-proof/shatter-proof even graffiti-proof clear covering and had this as a 'Wow' entrance to the shops and gastropubs and indeed the flats? The development itself though puts me in mind of West Greenwich and the Cutty Sark DLR development...which is positive
All in all, I agree the Devil must be in the detail but as things stand this is a welcome shot in the arm for Sydders and I. The current facade is suburban degradation on a huge scale. If this can go some way to emulating West Greenwich and the shops therein then it is great news. At the end of the day (without meaning to sound like a football manager) if we can get people paying good money for roof-terraces in a new-build in what is a busy/noisy/traffic-clogged/rat-run part of Sydders then I vote 'Yes'.
Thoughts?
Last edited by SydenhamHillBilly on 28 Nov 2008 13:10, edited 1 time in total.
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scott.l.hamilton
- Posts: 120
- Joined: 28 Jan 2008 11:51
- Location: SE26
For those that are a bit underwhelmed from the artist representation, I highly recommend that you go and see the exhibit (model and plans) when they are put in place at Kirkdale books. I do not know when this will happen but I think it will be able to answer several of the questions and concerns people have based on the information available at this time.
I have heard several people mention the victorian tiles and I wanted to let everyone know that the plans include the tiles being moved into the Detached pub and being used to create a "victorian" room. The old entrance where they were is unsound and the tiles have been preserved so that they may be used in the proposed development.
I am looking forward to seeing the mock-up and the final plans when they make it to the bookshop.
I have heard several people mention the victorian tiles and I wanted to let everyone know that the plans include the tiles being moved into the Detached pub and being used to create a "victorian" room. The old entrance where they were is unsound and the tiles have been preserved so that they may be used in the proposed development.
I am looking forward to seeing the mock-up and the final plans when they make it to the bookshop.
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Greg Whitehead
- Posts: 474
- Joined: 11 Apr 2005 15:44
- Location: SE26 5RL
Thank you Scott for putting the little greymatter at rest regarding the Victorian tiles.
I am starting to get a feel for the development. In part I'm thinking The Dolphin in the East End (wiki it) and in part I'm thinking opposite 'Up The Creek' in West Greenwich.
And do you know what - I like both...the juxtaposition of old and modern is about right.
Well done to you and SydSoc (******, *****, ***, yourself and the other hangers-on).
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Names edited out by Admin
I am starting to get a feel for the development. In part I'm thinking The Dolphin in the East End (wiki it) and in part I'm thinking opposite 'Up The Creek' in West Greenwich.
And do you know what - I like both...the juxtaposition of old and modern is about right.
Well done to you and SydSoc (******, *****, ***, yourself and the other hangers-on).
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Names edited out by Admin
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scott.l.hamilton
- Posts: 120
- Joined: 28 Jan 2008 11:51
- Location: SE26
I wish I could say I have been involved with the Greyhound, but I have not. I have only been fortunate to hear and see some details here and there. Others have put alot of effort into "it" and I think it is a job well started (certainly not done 
)
I look forward to the Kirkdale bookshop display.....
) I look forward to the Kirkdale bookshop display.....
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SydenhamHillBilly
- Posts: 2
- Joined: 22 Oct 2008 18:24
- Location: Atop all of London
I think I should make it clear that contrary to Gregory's postiong I have had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the development, plans, owners or developers, hangers-on etc
I am a member of SydSoc but take no active role deliberately.
To have done so and not made that clear in the report would have been a gross dereliction of duty and an attempt to keep the website independent of any interested party.
Admin
I am a member of SydSoc but take no active role deliberately.
To have done so and not made that clear in the report would have been a gross dereliction of duty and an attempt to keep the website independent of any interested party.
Admin
I expect these are pretty initial sketches to test the waters. I like the general approach i.e. a quite minimalist backdrop to the ornate Victorian pub building.
However I can see a few difficulties with the layout proposed though it is difficult to tell without a proper plan. The layout implies a quite narrow alleyway created to the back of the pub for shops. This seems quite a risky proposition in an area where shops tend to fail even on the high street. Also it will be less secure for residents as I presume their main entrances will be there as well. Also, pubs need back yards and service parking and I can't see how they will get that in without blighting the alleyway.
The other issue is the height of the properties to the left of the picture - I would be surprised if they didn't cause some overlooking issues with the residents of Peak Hill Gardens. They would also lose a lot of sunlight in their gardens.
But apart from that it looks interesting!
However I can see a few difficulties with the layout proposed though it is difficult to tell without a proper plan. The layout implies a quite narrow alleyway created to the back of the pub for shops. This seems quite a risky proposition in an area where shops tend to fail even on the high street. Also it will be less secure for residents as I presume their main entrances will be there as well. Also, pubs need back yards and service parking and I can't see how they will get that in without blighting the alleyway.
The other issue is the height of the properties to the left of the picture - I would be surprised if they didn't cause some overlooking issues with the residents of Peak Hill Gardens. They would also lose a lot of sunlight in their gardens.
But apart from that it looks interesting!