I just heard a rumour from a usually reliable source that the Crystal Palace extension of Tramlink has been scrapped. Anybody know anymore?
Here is what was promised by Ken: http://www.sydenham.org.uk/news_tramlink.html
Admin
Tramlink Scrapped?
Looks like they're partly right..
http://www.thisiscroydontoday.co.uk/lat ... ticle.html
http://www.thisiscroydontoday.co.uk/lat ... ticle.html
I made an enquiry about this back in June as the website said that the consulatation was due to be finished at the end of 2007 and nothing had been updated on teh website for some months....so it wasn't lokoing hopeful.
The reply I received was thus:
The fact that it [consultation &c.] is budgeted up until 2010 seems good I suppose. However, the lack of official communication and news updates does not, I fear, bode well. I wouldn't be surprised if it is binned - which would be a crying shame. Especially as it would link to the overground terminus there...
The reply I received was thus:
Thank you for your enquiry about the current status of the Tramlink extension to Crystal Palace.
TfL is looking at which route is best overall, taking into account the cost of construction, passenger numbers, environmental impact and the views of residents and stakeholders.
There is currently funding in TfL’s Business Plan up until 2010 to develop this scheme. This includes a more detailed assessment of its traffic, environmental and economic impacts with a view to selecting a preferred route, carrying out a detailed design and public consultation in preparation for seeking the necessary powers for implementation.
We have noted your contact details and will keep you up to date of any developments.
Kind regards
Name Supplied
The fact that it [consultation &c.] is budgeted up until 2010 seems good I suppose. However, the lack of official communication and news updates does not, I fear, bode well. I wouldn't be surprised if it is binned - which would be a crying shame. Especially as it would link to the overground terminus there...
TfL have confirmed that this £170m scheme will 'not be progressed' in Boris's new ten year Transport Plan. A full news article will appear on the frontpage later tonight.
It will be based on this document released today: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/n ... 10231.aspx
Admin
It will be based on this document released today: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/n ... 10231.aspx
Admin
Hmm.
Would the tram actually have served a purpose? The trains are pretty good between Crystal Palace and Croydon, while the bus isn't exactly terrible.
Given the choice, I'd rather the mayor spend his budget on an improved park, rather than on a service that seems to largely duplicate what's already there.
Would the tram actually have served a purpose? The trains are pretty good between Crystal Palace and Croydon, while the bus isn't exactly terrible.
Given the choice, I'd rather the mayor spend his budget on an improved park, rather than on a service that seems to largely duplicate what's already there.
Actually, I don't think we should take this personally - Boris has been chopping projects and re-prioritising all over the place according to yesterday's press:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/nov/0 ... ort-london
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/p ... 101813.ece
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7712002.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/nov/0 ... ort-london
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/p ... 101813.ece
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7712002.stm
I do take it personally. The reprioritisation is of of Central & North London over South London. Given that south of the river has the poorest provision of TfL transport - this hits doubly hard. Hence my diatribe here:natbeuk wrote:Actually, I don't think we should take this personally - Boris has been chopping projects and re-prioritising all over the place
http://www.sydenham.org.uk/news_tramlink_scrapped.html
Claiming kudos for the East London Line comes a bit rich when its too far along under the previous administration to be cancelled. And labelling £3billion of cuts as "massive expansion" does look like the worst sort of 'spin'.
Did anybody go to the Boris Question Time at Bromley Town Hall last night?
Admin
(BTW if anybody thinks this is politically biased hasn't heard me on Ken's transport policy ...)
You know a lot more about this than I do Admin, so please don't take my posts as arguing, I'm genuinely trying to understand.
It seems that Central London plans have been scrapped too - ie the Oxford St tram and various public space proposals. Is it not the case that there were a greater number/more expensive works planned for south of the river (because of the lack of provision that you mention) and so as a proportion it is inevitable that more south of the river works are caught up in this scrapping of plans rather than it being an anti-south strategy?
What's planned that will benefit North London?
My point is that, as I see it, the whole of London will suffer as a result of Boris's decisions, not just our part of the world.
I would like to point out at this point though that I do agree Boris is a "t**t", I would never vote for him, and I think he is wasting money on some of the projects he has chosen to keep. Namely:
- Routemaster - is this really a priority??
- Air-con on the tube - the lines that will get air con are the lines which least need it. All of these lines spend most of their journey above ground or at a shallow depth, and so are not (comparatively) hot. Lines such as the northern and central lines which become unbearable in summer will not get air con because the tunnels are not high enough to fit the air conditioned carriages. In my mind they should spend the money on a solution that will work on the deep lines rather than blowing it all on the shallow lines.
It seems that Central London plans have been scrapped too - ie the Oxford St tram and various public space proposals. Is it not the case that there were a greater number/more expensive works planned for south of the river (because of the lack of provision that you mention) and so as a proportion it is inevitable that more south of the river works are caught up in this scrapping of plans rather than it being an anti-south strategy?
What's planned that will benefit North London?
My point is that, as I see it, the whole of London will suffer as a result of Boris's decisions, not just our part of the world.
I would like to point out at this point though that I do agree Boris is a "t**t", I would never vote for him, and I think he is wasting money on some of the projects he has chosen to keep. Namely:
- Routemaster - is this really a priority??
- Air-con on the tube - the lines that will get air con are the lines which least need it. All of these lines spend most of their journey above ground or at a shallow depth, and so are not (comparatively) hot. Lines such as the northern and central lines which become unbearable in summer will not get air con because the tunnels are not high enough to fit the air conditioned carriages. In my mind they should spend the money on a solution that will work on the deep lines rather than blowing it all on the shallow lines.
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sydenhamboy
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- Location: sydenham
I have to say though I was concerned about the East London/tube/overland when I heard about the cuts last night ... but that is still going ahead and Boris said that [East London Line extension] remains a priority. So from a purely 'Sydenham' perspective I think we got away with that one.
I was relieved - don't forget, that will definitely raise our profile ... and on paper we will have really good links to London central.
I was relieved - don't forget, that will definitely raise our profile ... and on paper we will have really good links to London central.
Sorry, by North London I meant 'North of the River' in the same way that South London includes Greenwich which actually further north than much of west london.
On that basis 4 of the 7 scrapped projects are south of the river. A heavily disproportionate amount. Nearly all the new plans are North & Central. If you live East, West or North (or commute up from Surrey) you can see a lot of good news in the announcements for getting into and through London.
Sydenham is lucky to have the last major south of the river legacy project (ELL). But if you are looking at local public transport south of the river I cannot see how it can be regarded as other than very bleak news.
But if someone can put some cheer into the plans and dispel my pessimism - please, please contribute.
Admin
On that basis 4 of the 7 scrapped projects are south of the river. A heavily disproportionate amount. Nearly all the new plans are North & Central. If you live East, West or North (or commute up from Surrey) you can see a lot of good news in the announcements for getting into and through London.
Sydenham is lucky to have the last major south of the river legacy project (ELL). But if you are looking at local public transport south of the river I cannot see how it can be regarded as other than very bleak news.
But if someone can put some cheer into the plans and dispel my pessimism - please, please contribute.
Admin
Last edited by admin on 7 Nov 2008 13:40, edited 1 time in total.
Bensonby,
I think you miss my point. Getting into Central London is not the real problem. Just an overly expensive & crowded one. It is getting around London that is a real pain South of the River. Arterial not Radial. Wheras on the otherside the tube system is much more convenient.
The cut plans would have done much to rectify this problem IMHO.
Admin
I think you miss my point. Getting into Central London is not the real problem. Just an overly expensive & crowded one. It is getting around London that is a real pain South of the River. Arterial not Radial. Wheras on the otherside the tube system is much more convenient.
The cut plans would have done much to rectify this problem IMHO.
Admin
Which plan/s in particular do you think would have helped, and how?admin wrote:Bensonby,
I think you miss my point. Getting into Central London is not the real problem. Just an overly expensive & crowded one. It is getting around London that is a real pain South of the River. Arterial not Radial. Wheras on the otherside the tube system is much more convenient.
The cut plans would have done much to rectify this problem IMHO.
Admin
(again, being genuinely interested, not argumentative... think it's important to clarify that!!)
but the crystal palce link largely dupicated services that already existed.
I agree that getting around can be a bit of a nightmare - SE to SW especially. But these plans didn't really address that...Wouldn't greater capacity and lower fares be the answer rather than expensive extensions? Trams, for example, are extraordinarily expensive. More, and better, buses (such as the recent advent of doubue decker 202s) are really more appreciated and better value for money improvements.
I agree that getting around can be a bit of a nightmare - SE to SW especially. But these plans didn't really address that...Wouldn't greater capacity and lower fares be the answer rather than expensive extensions? Trams, for example, are extraordinarily expensive. More, and better, buses (such as the recent advent of doubue decker 202s) are really more appreciated and better value for money improvements.
Netbeuk - A dominant pattern is the scrapping of any Tram expansion. Not too big an issue north of the river where it cannot match the speed of the tube or flexibility of the bus.
But here in the south trams are at least a poor man's tube. They were cutting across the arterial routes 'joining things up'. Fully developed they would have made almost everywhere accessible with one or two changes. And cheaper (its easier to charge point to point like the tube rather than by stage).
And it would have brought IKEA a little nearer
Admin
But here in the south trams are at least a poor man's tube. They were cutting across the arterial routes 'joining things up'. Fully developed they would have made almost everywhere accessible with one or two changes. And cheaper (its easier to charge point to point like the tube rather than by stage).
And it would have brought IKEA a little nearer
Admin