That Sydenham Secrets PDF is class, did she actually write it?
Two things that are ridiculous, why is there no mention of Home Park & why isn't the Library in Lower Sydenham listed?
Why hasn't this PDF been updated either, it's a download, would take 5 mins to change and costs nothing.
Does anyone know who her manager is? Please post their contact details if you do?
Planning Watch 4
This is my first posting onto the site.
I totally agree with both Greg and Ronski -the town planner should be made accountable for this atrocious piece of research (and also lack of development of the high street/environment!). The council's brief presumably was to encourage people to Sydenham, not to make them head for the hills!
I find it hard to believe that the Council Planner is meeting her targets, I know if I wrote this appalling piece of research my manager would have a few things to say! Also it is now over a year out of date, it can be rectified electronically so I don't know what her excuse is!
I have lived in this area for just over 5 months and have joined the Sydenham Society and now this forum as I strongly believe that we can change these issues as a group.
I totally agree with both Greg and Ronski -the town planner should be made accountable for this atrocious piece of research (and also lack of development of the high street/environment!). The council's brief presumably was to encourage people to Sydenham, not to make them head for the hills!
I find it hard to believe that the Council Planner is meeting her targets, I know if I wrote this appalling piece of research my manager would have a few things to say! Also it is now over a year out of date, it can be rectified electronically so I don't know what her excuse is!
I have lived in this area for just over 5 months and have joined the Sydenham Society and now this forum as I strongly believe that we can change these issues as a group.
I have deleted two posts in this thread. The most obvious reason was a series of gratuitous personal attacks. The secondary reason was the list of factual errors underpinning the abuse.
I don't want to stop people criticising the management of Sydenham Town Centre - quite the reverse! But this is not the way to do it. You place me in the invidious position of defending our TCM. Remember she 'manages' not just Sydenham but 5 town centres - so with very little time, less budget and virtually no executive authority - the results are unsurprising.
So lets focus on what can be done and WHO is able to do it. Not just dump on a post holder.
Admin
I don't want to stop people criticising the management of Sydenham Town Centre - quite the reverse! But this is not the way to do it. You place me in the invidious position of defending our TCM. Remember she 'manages' not just Sydenham but 5 town centres - so with very little time, less budget and virtually no executive authority - the results are unsurprising.
So lets focus on what can be done and WHO is able to do it. Not just dump on a post holder.
Admin
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Greg Whitehead
- Posts: 474
- Joined: 11 Apr 2005 15:44
- Location: SE26 5RL
Ok, point taken admin. Let us concentrate then on one of the points I made earlier regarding the bins please. I must admit to having being constantly impressed with the amount of street-sweepers here in Sydders. All day, every day they are up and down Sydenham Road fastidiously picking up litter. I don't think they need to be so particular however. In my humble opinion the problem with the volume of litter lies with the fact that the bins have no lid. Therefore, with Sydders being in the lea of a hill the wind tends to race across the top of the bin 'sucking' the papers etc out (think along the lines of your chimney at home).
If we put a lid on the bins then surely there would be a good deal less paper strewn around and these hard-working chaps could be deployed up and down residential streets more often rather than just on 'bin day'. I think this suggestion is sound but I know not how/who to lobby/write to/suggest this idea to.
I can and will make contact directly but can anyone suggest a good starting point?
If we put a lid on the bins then surely there would be a good deal less paper strewn around and these hard-working chaps could be deployed up and down residential streets more often rather than just on 'bin day'. I think this suggestion is sound but I know not how/who to lobby/write to/suggest this idea to.
I can and will make contact directly but can anyone suggest a good starting point?
Planning is of vital importance in maintaining the fabric of our high street. Hopefully, we can now discuss this issue without the vicious character assassinations and inward-looking diatribe that has dominated this forum for the last month and has all but squeezed-out any sensible and constructive dialogue.
We are all aware that one or two shops have closed recently and I have little doubt in the coming recession that more businesses will come under financial pressure.
The first thing to say is that SE26 is in a fairly good position. The tendency in a collapsing financial market is to believe that all is despair and despondency. But there are many "upsides" to our situation:
1. We have a new top-quality rail system arriving within the next 12-15 months and a new company (TfL) running our stations who are willing to spend money to help upgrade local stations, provide new entry gates, introduce Oystercards etc.
2. LBL will shortly unveil a scheme to upgrade Station Approach - and this will be subject to consultation in 2009.
3. The £2m scheme to upgrade Sydenham Road may be delayed by the gas pipeline work but it will happen eventually.
4. Sydenham Sorting Office. Scott's hard work looks as if it is going to pay off and we may have a new community/commercial facility housed in this wonderful building. Let's keep our fingers crossed. And a huge thank-you to Scott. Who said all Americans were useless?
5. Further future developments on the high street will be announced soon.
How do we handle planning applications? Nearly all applications are private agreements between a landlord and prospective tenants. So they can’t be dealt with as someone suggested on this forum by putting all the various options up on this forum so that we can all vote for the one we want – a sort of SE26-style X Factor.
What can be done, however, is to regularly look at planning applications and oppose those that are “unsuitable”. For example, the Sydenham Society has objected strongly to the application to give 105 Sydenham Road (the East-West store) A3 status which would have given the owner the option to turn it into a takeaway shop selling food. This has now been turned down, otherwise we’d soon have another burger bar on our doorsteps.
There is also the opportunity through the Sydenham Traders to have discussions with owners of commercial property about future uses of their premises and possible tenants. This process is happening all the time and we should be thankful to all those people who, on a regular basis, are carrying out this work. Without them, many good quality businesses would not be in Sydenham and many totally unsuitable applications would have been approved.
Many people will have ideas about extra things the local authority and the TCM can do to encourage new, good quality businesses into the area. So let’s hear them.
We are all aware that one or two shops have closed recently and I have little doubt in the coming recession that more businesses will come under financial pressure.
The first thing to say is that SE26 is in a fairly good position. The tendency in a collapsing financial market is to believe that all is despair and despondency. But there are many "upsides" to our situation:
1. We have a new top-quality rail system arriving within the next 12-15 months and a new company (TfL) running our stations who are willing to spend money to help upgrade local stations, provide new entry gates, introduce Oystercards etc.
2. LBL will shortly unveil a scheme to upgrade Station Approach - and this will be subject to consultation in 2009.
3. The £2m scheme to upgrade Sydenham Road may be delayed by the gas pipeline work but it will happen eventually.
4. Sydenham Sorting Office. Scott's hard work looks as if it is going to pay off and we may have a new community/commercial facility housed in this wonderful building. Let's keep our fingers crossed. And a huge thank-you to Scott. Who said all Americans were useless?
5. Further future developments on the high street will be announced soon.
How do we handle planning applications? Nearly all applications are private agreements between a landlord and prospective tenants. So they can’t be dealt with as someone suggested on this forum by putting all the various options up on this forum so that we can all vote for the one we want – a sort of SE26-style X Factor.
What can be done, however, is to regularly look at planning applications and oppose those that are “unsuitable”. For example, the Sydenham Society has objected strongly to the application to give 105 Sydenham Road (the East-West store) A3 status which would have given the owner the option to turn it into a takeaway shop selling food. This has now been turned down, otherwise we’d soon have another burger bar on our doorsteps.
There is also the opportunity through the Sydenham Traders to have discussions with owners of commercial property about future uses of their premises and possible tenants. This process is happening all the time and we should be thankful to all those people who, on a regular basis, are carrying out this work. Without them, many good quality businesses would not be in Sydenham and many totally unsuitable applications would have been approved.
Many people will have ideas about extra things the local authority and the TCM can do to encourage new, good quality businesses into the area. So let’s hear them.
Thank you Nasaroc for your update. There's been a bit of a dearth of "hard news" about Sydenham of late so not much of substance to debate here. But it won't be too long before we can say that the London Overground will be here next year - as an aside, do you think that this might happen before the stated deadline of summer 2010 (as some rumours have suggested)?
I hope all goes well with the sorting office Scott!
I hope all goes well with the sorting office Scott!
I think AliB is correct. For those of you who remember the gas works of 2005-6 (when the north side of Sydenham Road was fixed) it took almost eight months for the work to proceed from Cobbs Corner to down past the Dolphin. Judging from this previous experience, I don't see realistically how work on the road improvements can commence until the start of 2010.
I think we are looking for the gas works to start in Jan 2009 and for them to last one long chaotic year before they clear the "centre" of Sydenham Road.
Incidentally, I understand that LBL could have asked for the gas works to commence a month ago but decided not to do so since this would gravely affect Christmas trade in the high street. I think they were correct in this decision.
Will the new ELL open a few months earlier than scheduled? That's what everyone associated with the project is saying "off camera". But with the railways nothing is certain. What can be said is that the project is progressing apace. Keep your eye on the flyover at New Cross Gate - that will give you a good idea of how work is going.
I think we are looking for the gas works to start in Jan 2009 and for them to last one long chaotic year before they clear the "centre" of Sydenham Road.
Incidentally, I understand that LBL could have asked for the gas works to commence a month ago but decided not to do so since this would gravely affect Christmas trade in the high street. I think they were correct in this decision.
Will the new ELL open a few months earlier than scheduled? That's what everyone associated with the project is saying "off camera". But with the railways nothing is certain. What can be said is that the project is progressing apace. Keep your eye on the flyover at New Cross Gate - that will give you a good idea of how work is going.
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Greg Whitehead
- Posts: 474
- Joined: 11 Apr 2005 15:44
- Location: SE26 5RL
Good to hear form you again Nasaroc.
I remember a while back you were asking about pedestrian access and comfort of movement up and down Sydenham Road IIRC. The thread moved onto pedestrian crossings. I chatted with the chap from living streets when he was doing his survey and duly filled out my forms etc when they came through the door. Now, I remember some of the improvements that will happen as a result but will the crossing at Newlands Park cover this? I never walk on the left of Sydenham Road [going uphill] as it is lethal trying to cross at this junction. It seems as if footfall is suffering as a result for Endora House etc.
Is my idea about the bins that derisory? Or again is that covered in the 'street furniture' element of the improvements - sorry but I cannot find the updated leaflets that came through. Doubtless they were read and put in the recycling bin.
I remember a while back you were asking about pedestrian access and comfort of movement up and down Sydenham Road IIRC. The thread moved onto pedestrian crossings. I chatted with the chap from living streets when he was doing his survey and duly filled out my forms etc when they came through the door. Now, I remember some of the improvements that will happen as a result but will the crossing at Newlands Park cover this? I never walk on the left of Sydenham Road [going uphill] as it is lethal trying to cross at this junction. It seems as if footfall is suffering as a result for Endora House etc.
Is my idea about the bins that derisory? Or again is that covered in the 'street furniture' element of the improvements - sorry but I cannot find the updated leaflets that came through. Doubtless they were read and put in the recycling bin.
Last edited by Greg Whitehead on 5 Nov 2008 13:34, edited 1 time in total.
Hi Greg,
Not only is there is a PUFFIN crossing scheduled for across Newlands Park, there is also one planned for between Newlands Park and Fresh & Fruity and also a proper full width PUFFIN between Aldlife and Snappy Snaps. Lots of exciting plans for our High Street, but we have to wait to reap the benefits.
PUFFIN = Pedestrian User Friendly Interactive crossing, so it has the ability to sense pedestrians waiting to cross the road and also can stop speeding traffic.
Not only is there is a PUFFIN crossing scheduled for across Newlands Park, there is also one planned for between Newlands Park and Fresh & Fruity and also a proper full width PUFFIN between Aldlife and Snappy Snaps. Lots of exciting plans for our High Street, but we have to wait to reap the benefits.
PUFFIN = Pedestrian User Friendly Interactive crossing, so it has the ability to sense pedestrians waiting to cross the road and also can stop speeding traffic.
Newland's park certainly needs a crossing there..... Personally though I believe all the Pelican and Puffin crossings should be replaced by zebra crossings with island refuges. If the LBL want to make the street more pedestrian friendly then this would be a large step in that direction. It would also calm traffic.
Greg - I don't really feel that fitting lids on bins in the high street is really a priority. I have never noticed litter being "sucked" out of bins by the wind as you report -perhaps I should be watching the bins more closely.
Lids, unless carefully designed, are likely to become detached and become litter themselves. Or if the lids are of some more sophisticated design are likely to get damaged.
I just don't think this is a priority - compared for example to the dumping of household rubbish in and around the high street.
Lids, unless carefully designed, are likely to become detached and become litter themselves. Or if the lids are of some more sophisticated design are likely to get damaged.
I just don't think this is a priority - compared for example to the dumping of household rubbish in and around the high street.
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Greg Whitehead
- Posts: 474
- Joined: 11 Apr 2005 15:44
- Location: SE26 5RL
nasaroc, dumping of household rubbish in and around the high-street as you report? I hadn't noticed - perhaps I should be watching for household rubbish more closely.
Do you truly think the problem of litter on the high-street could be classified as low priority? Surely litter, along with shop-frontages, graffiti and anti-social behaviour are very much key to the ambience of the high-street. Having the dual-edged impact of attracting both business' and shoppers to the high-street accordingly.
Yes, many times I have seen newspapers, cigarette cellophane, crisp packets, sweetie wrappers et al being 'sucked' out of bins. Think again of your chimney on a windy day. The 'draw' will suck anything light up and out. The surface area of the bin is much greater and the litter has less distance to travel than to, say, the top of your chimney-pot. It isn't rocket science. But then again, Rocketry is an engineering discipline and not a science after all.
So yes - putting a lid on the bins ought to be one high-priority. By employing a system such as Camden Council where I work the lids can be robust, heavy and serve the function of keeping the litter deposited in them actually in the bin (those who drop litter indiscriminately is another matter).
The street-sweepers spend too much time picking up litter that has already been deposited in a bin. Freeing them from this bind will allow them to spend more time where they can really make a difference. By this I mean dog-litter/leaves/residential streets.
Do you truly think the problem of litter on the high-street could be classified as low priority? Surely litter, along with shop-frontages, graffiti and anti-social behaviour are very much key to the ambience of the high-street. Having the dual-edged impact of attracting both business' and shoppers to the high-street accordingly.
Yes, many times I have seen newspapers, cigarette cellophane, crisp packets, sweetie wrappers et al being 'sucked' out of bins. Think again of your chimney on a windy day. The 'draw' will suck anything light up and out. The surface area of the bin is much greater and the litter has less distance to travel than to, say, the top of your chimney-pot. It isn't rocket science. But then again, Rocketry is an engineering discipline and not a science after all.
So yes - putting a lid on the bins ought to be one high-priority. By employing a system such as Camden Council where I work the lids can be robust, heavy and serve the function of keeping the litter deposited in them actually in the bin (those who drop litter indiscriminately is another matter).
The street-sweepers spend too much time picking up litter that has already been deposited in a bin. Freeing them from this bind will allow them to spend more time where they can really make a difference. By this I mean dog-litter/leaves/residential streets.
Last edited by Greg Whitehead on 5 Nov 2008 14:30, edited 2 times in total.
nasaroc wrote: I just don't think this is a priority - compared for example to the dumping of household rubbish in and around the high street.
re. this:
Aren't bags of rubbish from the flats above the shops left out for the bin men on collection day? Rather than just "dumped" - unsightly I know, but with teh current arrangment probably necessary...
The current bins are about £100-200 each.
Bins with lids in cast iron are £600 each (and you can have whatever design you want in them).
The council wont buy cast iron bins because apparently people steal them and sell them for scrap.
The other alternative is a composite bin. These are made from recycled plastic materials and have alid. Again you can have any logo (i.e. symbol for sydenham) you want in them.
The main problem with bins isn't putting them in, it's the maintenance. But I pointed out that they (the council) don't maintain the cheap, blue, nasty things we currently have!
Bins with lids in cast iron are £600 each (and you can have whatever design you want in them).
The council wont buy cast iron bins because apparently people steal them and sell them for scrap.
The other alternative is a composite bin. These are made from recycled plastic materials and have alid. Again you can have any logo (i.e. symbol for sydenham) you want in them.
The main problem with bins isn't putting them in, it's the maintenance. But I pointed out that they (the council) don't maintain the cheap, blue, nasty things we currently have!
planning
Has anyone noticed that House of Curtains is closing? Not sure about House of Linens but thought both (although not that attractive) were an asset to the high street...
Also wondered why Tfl can't be asked to at least re-phase the lights at Newlands Park for now because it is so dangerous? if you think it is difficult on your own, try doing it with a buggy and small child to handle! Having to deal with it for another couple of years is a bit of worry...
Also wondered why Tfl can't be asked to at least re-phase the lights at Newlands Park for now because it is so dangerous? if you think it is difficult on your own, try doing it with a buggy and small child to handle! Having to deal with it for another couple of years is a bit of worry...