a 60 foot (5G?) mast is coming to Newlands Park

[stone-penge]

Live nearby? let Bromley council know what you think:

https://searchapplications.bromley.gov. ... U1NBTM9F00

[Sydenham Syd]

It won’t be Hauwei at least....

[JGD]

The new rules require that Huawei kit must be removed within the next few years. So we don't really know what components are being commissioned in installations now.

However a few relevant extracts including a revelation that this is a mast to be shared by two providers.

The 5G antennas are some 3 times as heavy as previous antennas, while the associated Remote Radio Units also now need to be placed at the top of the pole, thus many street works designs are no longer structurally capable of hosting all the equipment of 2 operators. It should be noted that the alternative option that could accommodate both operators (EE and H3G LTE who have a site sharing agreement) would be a more traditional ‘greenfield’ mast, with an open headframe and more bulky design, which would be inappropriate in a street scene location. There is no such location in this cell search area where a greenfield mast could be housed and thus site sharing is not a viable proposition.

5. Technical Justification

Reason(s) why site required

The National Planning Policy Framework clearly states that authorities should NOT question the need for the service, nor seek to prevent competition between operators. Notwithstanding this fact, the Applicant considers it to be important to explain the technical justification for the site and how the facility fits into the overall network.

The site is required to provide new 5G coverage for H3G LTE in order to improve coverage in the area of Newlands Park. The cell search areas for 5G are extremely constrained with a typical cell radius of approximately 50m meaning that it would not be feasible to site the column outside of this locale.

7. Additional Relevant Information

Background to the Proposal

This specific proposal forms part of an integral requirement for H3G LTE to expand its 5G telecommunications network across London specifically in this instance to enhance 5G coverage levels and network capacity within the Newlands Park area.

Mobile phone base stations operate on a low power and accordingly base stations therefore need to be located in the areas they are required to serve. Increasingly, people are also using their mobiles in their homes and this means we need to position base stations in, or close to, residential areas.

A further limiting factor is that the position has to be one that fits in with the existing network. Sites have to form a patchwork of coverage cells with each cell overlapping to a limited degree with the surrounding base stations to provide continuous network cover as users move from one cell to the other. However, if this overlap is too great unacceptable interference is created between the two cells.

[Sydenham Syd]

David Icke on the committee?

[JGD]

An update following a little more detailed scrutiny of the submitted drawings and Equipment Schedules from Hutchison 3G UK Limited.

it would appear that at least some of the proposed and specified equipment is undoubtedly supplied by Huawei.

The antennae specifications are unambiguously Huawei as are some of equipment enclosures specific for their kit.

I have NOT cross checked every thing that is scheduled but if you feel you want to examine the technical issues in more detail, visit YouTube and search for the phrase "Three UK London 5G".

The new rules require that Huawei kit must be removed within the next few years. So we don't really know what components are being commissioned in installations now.

It might therefore seem my first commentary was a little more prescient than I knew at the time.

It cannot be forecast at this time whether the proposed installation will proceed with the current specification of Huawei kit included and if it does, will it require alteration in the near future to conform to HMG's fresh missive that Huawei kit cannot form part of the core network - whatever that phrase actually means.

[zara]

This looks completely the wrong site for this.I would just like a 3G or 4 g connection in wiverton road. Have to use WiFi calling for the last 3 years when it worked before.

[mrs woman]

Thanks for the information JGD. As from what you say, It does seem inappropriate to be placed on a public footpath. Planning will only consider objections on site and design. the detail that its 5G is allowed to be omitted from the main planning document. I have put my objection in as I believe a 60ft mono pole with antenna is totally out of scale against the neighbouring houses and out of character to the surrounding edwardian and victorian houses. Its at least 3 times as tall as the 3 story office block it will sit in front of.

Due to COVID or houses not owner occupied there doesn't seem to be much response. It would be helpful if people commented on this to help stop the 5G 60ft telecoms pole and antenna.

Heres the quick link for comments
https://bit.ly/3gnzeO3

[kidney]

Thank you Stone-Penge for highlighting this proposal. I see others are also highlighting (thread about the Springfield Rd Tennis court mast). Given it is only sent to those who live very close to it, many who live within a reasonable distance would not have known and thus it may have gone through without many comments. As a result of publicity like this, it has picked up some momentum and as a result the proposal has been declined.

[Phoebe@Sydenham]

Thank you Stone-Penge for highlighting this proposal. I see others are also highlighting (thread about the Springfield Rd Tennis court mast). Given it is only sent to those who live very close to it, many who live within a reasonable distance would not have known and thus it may have gone through without many comments. As a result of publicity like this, it has picked up some momentum and as a result the proposal has been declined.

Indeed. My neighbour and I have been walking along Springfield and Lawrie Park Crescent yesterday speaking to everyone whose house / flat is within about 150 meters from the proposed location of the mast (outside of Sydenham tennis club gate). Half of them didn’t get the notification letter from the council!!! For those who did receive the letter including myself, only 2 weeks left to read through the documents / understand the proposal / figure out it is actually so close to us / submit objection. Really bad timing! Or, perhaps they on purpose do that!

[f4monty]

Another application has gone in for Longton Grove. Hutchison Telecom, 18 metres.

[JGD]

I have not seen any published proposals that map out the density of transmitters that are required to meet the network speeds promised for the new 5G standards in Lewisham or Bromley.

It is not my area of expertise but I recall reading reviews of the early trials in US cities where providers had calculated that a network of cell bases were required at centres that were measured in terms of tens of metres apart. It had the appearance of cell-bases being the equivalent of line-of-sight links - ie if the user was not within close proximity of a base and had no line of sight - they did not get a high-performance 5G signal. This meant a network of smaller stations were mounted on sides of building and public lighting columns to create the require levels of coverage.

Perhaps design has moved on somewhat and these 18 metre high transmitters have a better line-of-sight equivalence because of being set at greater height along with the power and range of the cell transmitters having been boosted somehow. The technical parts of the submission discuss the fact that larger pieces of equipment are required than for previous generations and that these larger bits of kit are too big to be installed at ground level (the content is para-phrased).

Perhaps our local councillors and Planning Officers for both Bromley and Lewisham should call in the network providers making these proposals with their drip-feed of isolated applications and demand a full disclosure of what the extent of the installation of the full network really entails.

It can be stated with some certainty that EVERY provider will have the master cell design already mapped out for every geographic location within the boroughs. It is time for the councils to smarten-up their advanced thinking and demand the providers present their maps and designs for consultation at least about the geographic scope in its entirety

It might be the case that councils already have had their powers of approval effectively limited for these types of installation.

I am not a subscriber to the nonsenses and fakery too frequently spoken about 5G.

Some might view it as being doubly essential though that our planners and local authorities understand what is being installed on a wide-scale basis.

[stone-penge]

The permitted development of this mast in Newlands Park has been rejected by LBB. what happens next I'm not sure. The density of these masts appears that each has a 500m radius, judging from the positions of the other ones popping up e.g. near Sydenham tennis club & the one by the petrol station. presumably this is happening all over London?

[f4monty]

Lewisham rejected one on Wells Park Road.

However, isn’t this generally a case of people shifting an issue from one doorstep to another? Most will want 5G but not the infrastructure that goes with it, which is not a workable situation. I cannot believe that Hutchison will be going to the expense of putting all these plans in and investing in the infrastructure just to annoy locals. The documentation is good at explaining the reasons for the masts.

In a few years I wouldn’t be surprised to see threads on forums about poor 5G in an area!

[stone-penge]

I think its an issue of ensuring developments are sensitively placed to ensure they are not detrimental to the local environment and streetscape and the need for proper communication and consultation regarding 5G; the tangible benefits to the community & the infrastructure requirements needed to deliver it.
Personally I've hear nothing apart from waffle & Trumpian forced U turns regarding Huawei and the most embarrassing speech a British PM has ever given at the UN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaN-MbGV4dY

Its time we were given proper information and consultation on these issues from the network operators and national & local government, not from an imbecile drunk.

[JGD]

...
Perhaps our local councillors and Planning Officers for both Bromley and Lewisham should call in the network providers making these proposals with their drip-feed of isolated applications and demand a full disclosure of what the extent of the installation of the full network really entails.

It can be stated with some certainty that EVERY provider will have the master cell design already mapped out for every geographic location within the boroughs. It is time for the councils to smarten-up their advanced thinking and demand the providers present their maps and designs for consultation at least about the geographic scope in its entirety

It might be the case that councils already have had their powers of approval effectively limited for these types of installation.

I am not a subscriber to the nonsenses and fakery too frequently spoken about 5G.

Some might view it as being doubly essential though that our planners and local authorities understand what is being installed on a wide-scale basis.

It's good to see that Pat Trembath of SydSoc endorses the idea that councils should call upon service providers to publish their borough wide plans.

Better late than never. Some four or five days after the idea was posted here on STF and which did not stimulate any commentary from SydSoc.

It is essential that discussion and debate on options is balanced. Two to three years downstream, it can be anticipated that people will not want to be disadvantaged by not having 5G coverage in their homes and locality.

It remains a puzzle that SydSoc chooses to conduct it's communications on a board that is the handiwork of a non-resident, Chris Beach, a board that has little local support and is run in a misogynistic and US-style racist fashion.

Great optics for SydSoc and its relationship with the community really.

[JGD]

David Icke on the committee?

The same David Icke referred to here ?

https://twitter.com/JaneyGodley/status/ ... 70566?s=20

Bad language advisory - don't play it with kids in the room.

[Syd Blues]

This evening I noticed that residents around the Longton Grove junction with Longton Avenue are displaying 'No to 5g mast' posters in their windows. There's also a large banner in front of the flats. Does anyone know about this planning application?

[f4monty]

I mentioned that Longton one further up. Another planned at Sydenham Park

[Syd Blues]

I mentioned that Longton one further up. Another planned at Sydenham Park

Oh yes - thanks

[JRW]

To check for other mast sites, search the planning database for monopole SE26 or SE6 etc. They all pop up straight away. .