I agree no to a macdonalds or a Burger king the high street DOES not need one of these tacky places there is enough kebab, chicken , burger joint etc in sydenham hight street.
I believe the HSBC building has a number of floors and could be a number of thing.
I agree we could do with somewhere in the high-street such as a Deli or a coffee shop, we could also do with some very decent restaurant, it's a shame both turkish restaurant, (food was amazing in both) were closed one has now turned in to a fish and chip shop the other a mexican.
I agree That's Amore is a hidden gem and the out look of the area is not the best but the food is amazing. lets hope we get something along these line in the HSBC building somewhere thats is a nice coffee shop ect during the day with outside seating and a place to relax and have nice meal in the evening.
Sydenham is on the up so why bring t down with more takeaways/kebab shops/burger joint ect.
The old HSBC building - what to do...
Indeed, things change - but not necessarily for the better. The example I gave was that some fifteen years ago or so we had a far better array of shops and small businesses than we do now. This is not some kind of mis-placed nostalgia it is a simple desire to see decent traditional local shops and services which offer their wares at a reasonable price.natbeuk wrote:Bensonby, what you term "faddy gentrification" is simply taste different to your own. By your own admission you want the area to return to what it is when you were young. No offence intended, but I think you need to accept that times have changed and are continuing to change.
The problem, nay blight, of gentrification is that it takes the genus of these traditional services, repackages them for the nouveau riche middle-classes and sells them on at an absurdly inflated price. Its not just a matter of having a different taste. Whilst Sydenhamm hasn't suffered gentrification to much of a degree (if anything its gone the opposite way a bit) I see it as important to keep the high street essentially "local" and free from the influence of gentrification - to keep it accessible (and affordable) to local and ordinary people.
Whilst I wouldn't see a coffee shop as being " to blame" in anyway, I would be wary of such a development as it may herald other, darker, things to come.
But the choise is, or could, be served within the confines of the pub. I really fail to see your objection to public houses - but I suppose that it your perogative. Over recent decades pubs have become a lot more diverse - in order to represent the different demands and needs from the community. (I suppose the smoking ban is the latest manifestation of this) The pub is traditionally the community's "front room" - a place where people socialise, meet and even undertake casual business. As such they are traditionally central to the community they serve. You can go in there and drink coffee, orange juice or water if you don't want a beer. If you can't, then the pub will struggle and either go out of business or will be forced to change - as clearly there is a demand there.I refuse to accept that if I want to go out in the evening I have to go to a pub. I don't have to do that in other parts of London so why should I have to in Sydenham, why should we not have choice?
I see lobbying your pub to change to provide more of a "cafe ambiance" as a far more effective - and more likely to succeed - than any other pipe dream.
sorry - this has got a little tangental.
You might find this useful:
http://www.kingsturge.co.uk/commercial/ ... 110732.htm
http://www.kingsturge.co.uk/commercial/ ... 110732.htm
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stone-penge
- Posts: 292
- Joined: 5 Nov 2004 14:40
- Location: Newlands park
I can't believe some of the prejudice towards having a national chain like McDonalds or Burger King on our high street. These are some of the most respectable companies in the UK , substantial supporters of the London Olympics and children's charities etc as well as encouraging development in third world countries. What's more they would offer employment to the local community on a much larger scale then some overpriced caffeine dive.
look at Hampstead; it has a McDonalds while Sydenham doesn't .
Which area has more prestige?
look at Hampstead; it has a McDonalds while Sydenham doesn't .
Which area has more prestige?
You really think McDs has anything to do with the prestige of an area????? Brixton has a McDs, how much prestige does Brixton have??stone-penge wrote:I can't believe some of the prejudice towards having a national chain like McDonalds or Burger King on our high street. These are some of the most respectable companies in the UK , substantial supporters of the London Olympics and children's charities etc as well as encouraging development in third world countries. What's more they would offer employment to the local community on a much larger scale then some overpriced caffeine dive.
look at Hampstead; it has a McDonalds while Sydenham doesn't .
Which area has more prestige?
And what exactly would McDs or BK bring to Sydenham, other than yet more junk food? There are a LOT of other companies out there who work with charities, BK and McDs are hardly alone in that! In terms of numbers of people employed, I fail to see how either burger joint would contribute so much more. And personally, I would rather support an independant business or small franchise, than a multinational organisation which turns out bland, mass produced food. And what about the increased rate of obesity among the UK's children - surely somewhere serving healthy food, balanced meals fresh vegetables, etc, has to be better for the health of our children?
And who's talking about an "overpriced caffeine dive"?? We're asking for somewhere nice, ie not a dive, and why does nice, and slighly more upmarket than McDs have to equate to overpriced? There is a middle ground you know!!
It's not prejudice at all, but in my opinion a new burger joint of any kind will not add any value at all to our high street. Pizza Express, Giraffe, Prezzo, Cafe Rouge.... there are many chains that I would happily see on our high street, however my ideal is an independant venture such as that which we have already discussed.
Ok, I would *prefer* the deli-style option, but I have to admit I do have a soft spot for Nandos and their chicken breast fillet in pitta with cheese and pineapple... oh great, now I have craving, thanks Ginge!!!
As far as chains go Nandos is not a BAD option. Their chicken is grilled so is comparatively healthy and they do offer salads, corn on the cob etc.. not so sure about the chips and things though. However, they are quite good at working with the community and sponsor quite a few local sporting teams in different areas so are positive in that sense.
As far as chains go Nandos is not a BAD option. Their chicken is grilled so is comparatively healthy and they do offer salads, corn on the cob etc.. not so sure about the chips and things though. However, they are quite good at working with the community and sponsor quite a few local sporting teams in different areas so are positive in that sense.
Hampstead fought for years to stop McDonalds moving in. They did manage to get them to make it a more tasteful looing store.
Hampstead is not posh because it has a McDonalds!
However I don't have a problem with McDonalds. They have tried hard to change and respond to criticism. Their new stores are beautifully designed and a credit to any high street . They sell 100% British Beef, have reduced levels of salt and have tried to be green. Unfortunately the stigma of their past still hangs in the air when they were in 'corporate bully' mode.
As for Burger king...they own Wimpy and we still have a Wimpy (with it's pubic toilet tiles frontage) so I can't see them coming here.
Hampstead is not posh because it has a McDonalds!
However I don't have a problem with McDonalds. They have tried hard to change and respond to criticism. Their new stores are beautifully designed and a credit to any high street . They sell 100% British Beef, have reduced levels of salt and have tried to be green. Unfortunately the stigma of their past still hangs in the air when they were in 'corporate bully' mode.
As for Burger king...they own Wimpy and we still have a Wimpy (with it's pubic toilet tiles frontage) so I can't see them coming here.
I totally aggree with natbeuk's post, if you want junk food you're pretty much sorted on the High street. If someone has time on their hands they could post the email contact details of all the places people want & people can email them to see if they are interested in coming to Sydenham. Maybe 20/30 people emailing might get their interest?
I imagine with the credit crunch in full swing though it might be difficult for new investment & we'll end up with something that has low start up costs.
I imagine with the credit crunch in full swing though it might be difficult for new investment & we'll end up with something that has low start up costs.
Not a bad idea Ronski.
Chazza, if you're reading this - are you seriously looking at the HSBC building from the perspective of starting up something yourself? As I've said, I'd prefer independant to a chain.
But either way, I think encouraging some decent chains to look at Sydenham as a viable option is a good idea. Might not get us anywhere but it's worth trying hey? An email costs nothing! Here's some starters:
Nandos: They have an online form here http://www.nandos.co.uk/faq/CU/Contact_Us.html# and also links to a phone number and postal address
Giraffe: smiles@giraffe.net (not sure how many people on here are familiar with Giraffe but they're a great little chain - check out http://www.giraffe.net/
Cafe Rouge/Bella Italia/Strada are all owned by Tragus Holdings and can be contacted via their website- http://www.tragusholdings.com/contact.asp
Pizza Express - their FAQ regarding if you have a property you think is of interest to them directs you to their online form at http://www.pizzaexpress.com/contact-us/
Prezzo - don't offer email, just postal and telephone contacts Jonathan Kaye
Johnston House
8 Johnston Road
Woodford Green
Essex
IG8 0XA
Tel: 0845 602 3257
Chazza, if you're reading this - are you seriously looking at the HSBC building from the perspective of starting up something yourself? As I've said, I'd prefer independant to a chain.
But either way, I think encouraging some decent chains to look at Sydenham as a viable option is a good idea. Might not get us anywhere but it's worth trying hey? An email costs nothing! Here's some starters:
Nandos: They have an online form here http://www.nandos.co.uk/faq/CU/Contact_Us.html# and also links to a phone number and postal address
Giraffe: smiles@giraffe.net (not sure how many people on here are familiar with Giraffe but they're a great little chain - check out http://www.giraffe.net/
Cafe Rouge/Bella Italia/Strada are all owned by Tragus Holdings and can be contacted via their website- http://www.tragusholdings.com/contact.asp
Pizza Express - their FAQ regarding if you have a property you think is of interest to them directs you to their online form at http://www.pizzaexpress.com/contact-us/
Prezzo - don't offer email, just postal and telephone contacts Jonathan Kaye
Johnston House
8 Johnston Road
Woodford Green
Essex
IG8 0XA
Tel: 0845 602 3257
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scott.l.hamilton
- Posts: 120
- Joined: 28 Jan 2008 11:51
- Location: SE26
NATBEUK, I agree with many of your comments, as well as several others that have posted on this thread. Apologies for my lack of presence lately but I have been away for 3 weeks or so...
I have written to Pizza express, Giraffe and Tragus restaurants regarding this property. I have yet to receive a response, but will keep writing them until I do.
Many things are "in progress" right now in regard to Sydenham Town center. While there is very little that is visible, momentum is changing direction and hopefully tangibles will start to happen in the near future. As long as the money is still available from TFL, and several different planning applications get approved by the council, people should start to see change and revitalisation taking effect. Also, we need to get Lewisham to actually give some money themselves, but that is another discussion.
BTW Sydenham Assembly is 4 September and I will be at the "Business and Enterprise" table for the meeting. Come along and find out more...
I have written to Pizza express, Giraffe and Tragus restaurants regarding this property. I have yet to receive a response, but will keep writing them until I do.
Many things are "in progress" right now in regard to Sydenham Town center. While there is very little that is visible, momentum is changing direction and hopefully tangibles will start to happen in the near future. As long as the money is still available from TFL, and several different planning applications get approved by the council, people should start to see change and revitalisation taking effect. Also, we need to get Lewisham to actually give some money themselves, but that is another discussion.
BTW Sydenham Assembly is 4 September and I will be at the "Business and Enterprise" table for the meeting. Come along and find out more...
I fear you may be wasting your breath/ink/time Scott.
I'm pretty certain that all three of those chains operate as franchises, and, as such, dont actually make the initial investment themselves. I know Pizza Express definitely work that way.
Pizza Express also used to have a policy of turning down lots of applications for one of their franchises, if a partcular area did not fit in with their demographic ideal.
Ronski has hit the nail squarely on the head, with his observation that there are few people likely to be investing a great deal at the moment, given that we appear to be heading into a media induced recession.
What, with the HSBC and The Greyhound as our welcome to visitors, the area is one of the few in London which looks worse than it did 20 years ago.
I'm pretty certain that all three of those chains operate as franchises, and, as such, dont actually make the initial investment themselves. I know Pizza Express definitely work that way.
Pizza Express also used to have a policy of turning down lots of applications for one of their franchises, if a partcular area did not fit in with their demographic ideal.
Ronski has hit the nail squarely on the head, with his observation that there are few people likely to be investing a great deal at the moment, given that we appear to be heading into a media induced recession.
What, with the HSBC and The Greyhound as our welcome to visitors, the area is one of the few in London which looks worse than it did 20 years ago.
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scott.l.hamilton
- Posts: 120
- Joined: 28 Jan 2008 11:51
- Location: SE26
Afternoon Fishcox,
Pizza Express use to operate as a franchise. They no longer operate that way in the UK or Ireland, Franchising is available if outside of the UK.
Some of the others do operate as a franchise, however, maybe they have someone who wants to open a franchise but is searching for a location? There is no harm in writing and asking... especially if residents are interested.
As far as the economy, London still has one of the most robust economies. While there are some problems, it is not falling apart at the seems as the media would have one believe. Sydenham presents an opportunity for some businesses to make money based on the consumer needs of the area and the relatively low rent compared to other areas. This "potential" profit could help cover less-profitable operations elsewhere. And position them in "growth" areas of the future.
I will contiune to argue for investment into Sydenham because there is a sound business case to do so...
Pizza Express use to operate as a franchise. They no longer operate that way in the UK or Ireland, Franchising is available if outside of the UK.
Some of the others do operate as a franchise, however, maybe they have someone who wants to open a franchise but is searching for a location? There is no harm in writing and asking... especially if residents are interested.
As far as the economy, London still has one of the most robust economies. While there are some problems, it is not falling apart at the seems as the media would have one believe. Sydenham presents an opportunity for some businesses to make money based on the consumer needs of the area and the relatively low rent compared to other areas. This "potential" profit could help cover less-profitable operations elsewhere. And position them in "growth" areas of the future.
I will contiune to argue for investment into Sydenham because there is a sound business case to do so...
Nandos also do not franchise. Not totally sure how Giraffe & Tragus work.
Anyway I totally agree Scott. The sky is not falling in yet, there are people out there making healthy profits, and with the property business being hardest hit by current market conditions there could well be good deals to be done for potential investors.
And even if these businesses don't invest right now, there is no reason why we shouldn't put our area on their radar ready for when the time is right....
Anyway I totally agree Scott. The sky is not falling in yet, there are people out there making healthy profits, and with the property business being hardest hit by current market conditions there could well be good deals to be done for potential investors.
And even if these businesses don't invest right now, there is no reason why we shouldn't put our area on their radar ready for when the time is right....
