I was talking to a friend the other day trying to decide wether Sydenham is a London Suburb in the original sense of the word.On one hand Sydenham is quite close to London Bridge ,on the other its very near Beckenham which I personally would class as a true suburban 'town'.When ever I walk around Sydenham,I don't really get the feeling of Suburbia in the way I might if I popped over to Surbiton for example.But at the same time Sydenhem is far enough out to qualify at least originally as a suburb.Of course as London pushes out from the centre more and more,places like Forest Hill and Sydenham start to get enveloped into the more varied attitudes ,which is good IMHO,but also if you take a trip to..Brockley for example..you can find some very Suburban feeling streets not giving away the nearness of the city.So,I'm curious what actually stands under the name Suburb of London or Suburbia.
Transmit
Suburb or not Suburb?
Just found this when Googling "is Sydenham a suburb?"
Does anyone know what defines a "suburb" as opposed to somewhere being "urban"?
It's a planning question really as a developer is harping on about his plans being "and urban solution" & "urban surroundings", for the top end of Kirkdale/Mount Ash Road area.
Does anyone know what defines a "suburb" as opposed to somewhere being "urban"?
It's a planning question really as a developer is harping on about his plans being "and urban solution" & "urban surroundings", for the top end of Kirkdale/Mount Ash Road area.
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catscratch
- Posts: 83
- Joined: 13 Jul 2008 12:44
- Location: se20
If its within London postal district its regarded as urban.
So SE20 is urban, but walk a few yards from the Crooked billet say, and you are in Beckenham parish, thus sub-Urban. Beckenham you see has no SE code.
At least thats how the Insurance man justified my excessive premium in Penge Lane SE whereas the Alexanda estate is classed as Beckenham[ or parts of it]
Before the wretched GLC debacle, it was the urban district of Penge and Anerley.
Beckenham, once rural, tho', is by any criteria a suburb now, as is Bromley, once a country Market town, now a horror of bad archtecture and town mis- planning.
These days I would argue that London suburbs extend as far as Brighton and Southend.
Estate agents live in a fantasy land, where all boundarys are flexible, and would build arcadia in urbis given the chance.
I hope I got all that right, it is late.
So SE20 is urban, but walk a few yards from the Crooked billet say, and you are in Beckenham parish, thus sub-Urban. Beckenham you see has no SE code.
At least thats how the Insurance man justified my excessive premium in Penge Lane SE whereas the Alexanda estate is classed as Beckenham[ or parts of it]
Before the wretched GLC debacle, it was the urban district of Penge and Anerley.
Beckenham, once rural, tho', is by any criteria a suburb now, as is Bromley, once a country Market town, now a horror of bad archtecture and town mis- planning.
These days I would argue that London suburbs extend as far as Brighton and Southend.
Estate agents live in a fantasy land, where all boundarys are flexible, and would build arcadia in urbis given the chance.
I hope I got all that right, it is late.
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Steve Grindlay
- Posts: 606
- Joined: 4 Oct 2004 05:07
- Location: Upper Sydenham
Until the mid-nineteenth century Sydenham was a "hamlet", defined by the OED as:
"A group of houses or small village ... without a church..."
By1854 it had its own parish church. It was, at this time, referred to by those who lived here as "The Village". That fits with the OED definition of "village":
"A collection of dwelling-houses ... forming a centre of habitation ... an inhabited place larger than a hamlet and smaller than a town..." Sydenham was called "The Village" long before the residents of either Blackheath or Dulwich (or even Ladywell) adopted that epithet for themselves.
"Suburban" means, literally, beyond (or beneath) the urban, built up area. Remember (again from the OED), that the suburbs were considered: "places of inferior, debased, and esp. licentious habits of life".
"A group of houses or small village ... without a church..."
By1854 it had its own parish church. It was, at this time, referred to by those who lived here as "The Village". That fits with the OED definition of "village":
"A collection of dwelling-houses ... forming a centre of habitation ... an inhabited place larger than a hamlet and smaller than a town..." Sydenham was called "The Village" long before the residents of either Blackheath or Dulwich (or even Ladywell) adopted that epithet for themselves.
"Suburban" means, literally, beyond (or beneath) the urban, built up area. Remember (again from the OED), that the suburbs were considered: "places of inferior, debased, and esp. licentious habits of life".
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biscuitman1978
- Posts: 1588
- Joined: 16 May 2006 20:14
- Location: Chislehurst; previously Sydenham
Paragraph 3.23 of the London Plan may help - http://www.london.gov.uk/thelondonplan/ ... 08_ch3.pdf
Thanks, Biscuitman - I'm reprinting the section 3.23 below - I'd interpret this part of Upper Sydenham as suburban under that definition with the area around the station as urban.
3.23 The setting can be defined as:
• central – areas with very dense development, a mix of different uses,
large building footprints and typically buildings of four to six storeys,
located within 800 metres walking distance of a International,
Metropolitan or Major town centre
• urban – areas with predominantly dense development such as for
example terraced houses, mansion blocks, a mix of different uses,
medium building footprints and typically buildings of two to four
storeys, located within 800 metres walking distance of a District
centre or, along main arterial routes
• suburban – areas with predominantly lower density development such
as for example detached and semi-detached houses, predominantly
residential, small building footprints and typically buildings of two
to three storeys.
3.23 The setting can be defined as:
• central – areas with very dense development, a mix of different uses,
large building footprints and typically buildings of four to six storeys,
located within 800 metres walking distance of a International,
Metropolitan or Major town centre
• urban – areas with predominantly dense development such as for
example terraced houses, mansion blocks, a mix of different uses,
medium building footprints and typically buildings of two to four
storeys, located within 800 metres walking distance of a District
centre or, along main arterial routes
• suburban – areas with predominantly lower density development such
as for example detached and semi-detached houses, predominantly
residential, small building footprints and typically buildings of two
to three storeys.