Why high streets die

syd · Post by **syd** » 8 Jul 2018 10:16

Hi all,

I might be missing something but I tried to support a small business by using a red route loading bay which I’ve used in the past with no problems, I got a £130 parking fine via cctv. I distinctly remember when cctv was introduced we were told it would not be used for things like this. I reckon the death of the high st is the unintended consequence of using cctv for income generation just as the unintended consequence of speed humps is the increase in 4x4’s and air pollution.

Parking, not just for cars is critical and is now impossible. Am I wrong?

JRW · Post by **JRW** » 8 Jul 2018 12:27

Bizarre, especially as CCTV doesn't seem to be any assistance in prosecute the street racing prats who are currently putting everyone's lives at risk. Perhaps Lewisham sees them purely for revenue production?

syd · Post by **syd** » 8 Jul 2018 12:42

JRW wrote:Bizarre, especially as CCTV doesn't seem to be any assistance in prosecute the street racing prats who are currently putting everyone's lives at risk. Perhaps Lewisham sees them purely for revenue production?

The criminals know they’re hard work and too much paperwork but people just trying to do the right thing are an easy target. To be fair to Lewisham the fine was from transport for London who coincidentally have a £1bn deficit this year. I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that I used to be able to use loading bays for shopping

ChMagma · Post by **ChMagma** » 8 Jul 2018 16:09

The status of Sydenham High Street is really awful. Rubbish does't get collected and stays there for days, car and motorbike racing day at night, loud music from cars at any time. There must be something we should be able to do.

syenhamboy · Post by **syenhamboy** » 9 Jul 2018 12:16

When staff of the local shops and estate agents park their cars in the high street or the surrounding roads they're actually preventing their own customers of the high street from using the high street. I know that when I visit a high street and can't park then I go to a retail park as parking is guaranteed.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » 9 Jul 2018 12:41

syenhamboy wrote:When staff of the local shops and estate agents park their cars in the high street or the surrounding roads they're actually preventing their own customers of the high street from using the high street. I know that when I visit a high street and can't park then I go to a retail park as parking is guaranteed.

When do you visit the high street? I've never ever seen the car park full.

I'm also confused that the high street's USP is most people in Sydenham can easily walk or cycle to it. Well I can understand that both may be put off by thoughtless people who park in loading bays causing inconvenience and danger and also forcing delivery vehicles to park illegally on double yellows holding up legitimate vehicle users.

There was an awful example of that outside the Pavillion pub this morning. IMHO they (the cars) should be crushed. Maybe then their drivers might get the message.

When they start thinking they are being helpful and complaining about being rightly penalised for their anti-social behaviour one really wonders for the future of Sydenham as a hospitable and safe place to do anything.

But then the OP may think I'm the unreasonable one. Well I leave you to judge. I'm just totally bewildered and disappointed.

Stuart

vbsydenham · Post by **vbsydenham** » 10 Jul 2018 09:16

Surely two issues here:

1 - Was the red route parking bay used legally or illegally? If the latter you deserve to be fined and have nothing to complain about. If the former then submit a challenge and get it overturned.

2 - Is parking enforcement killing the high street? No, of course not. A combination of over reliance on enabling through motor traffic on high streets, out of town retail and internet shopping is killing the high street.

Redesign your public spaces and they come back to life. There is evidence for this all over London now:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... n-boroughs

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/ ... 89936.html

Pally · Post by **Pally** » 10 Jul 2018 10:13

We are incredibly lucky in Sydenham to have a free car park just off the High Street and within walking distance of all shops up to Cobbs Corner! So if you really have to drive to Sydenham it is so easy to park! Frankly I have no idea why local people drive here ...walking, biking and good bus services (I know the problems at the moment but those are temporary) ...and free parking ....what more could we ask for...apart from the usual bit about not having so many empty shops!

simon · Post by **simon** » 10 Jul 2018 11:38

I wasn't aware of any Red Routes in Sydenham. Personally, I think parking works pretty well. There is no longer enforcement of the ambulance bays on Tansfeld Road and the free car park is rarely full. High rents have been blow to businesses in the past, but I note that there continue to be new openings.

JayB · Post by **JayB** » 10 Jul 2018 14:54

Pally wrote:We are incredibly lucky in Sydenham to have a free car park just off the High Street and within walking distance of all shops up to Cobbs Corner! So if you really have to drive to Sydenham it is so easy to park! Frankly I have no idea why local people drive here ...walking, biking and good bus services (I know the problems at the moment but those are temporary) ...and free parking ....what more could we ask for...apart from the usual bit about not having so many empty shops!

Well I would hate to see a an example of bad bus services if what we have counts as good - TFL itself currently rates Bell Green as being 5 where 1 is the best and 6 the worst for public transport! Possibly things are different from where you live?

JGD · Post by **JGD** » 10 Jul 2018 15:35

JayB

Would be interested to see where TfL publishes this result and how it scores the locations using what criteria.

We live an approx 4-5 min walk from Bell Green. we have the 181's & 202's go past our door and we can get to Crystal Palace, Blackheath and Lewisham using them. We use the 356, 450 and 194's for local hops to as far away as Penge and Bromley and with bus tracker apps we don't waste a lot of time waiting.

We don't have great routes into town - the 185 through Forest Hill to Victoria is an example. Normally when we travel to town we use trains anyway.

If as you say 1 is high and 6 is low, I am not sure 5 is an appropriate or accurate score for Bell Green. All in all I think we have an above average service verging on being good.

Pally · Post by **Pally** » 10 Jul 2018 15:36

JayB wrote:
Pally wrote:We are incredibly lucky in Sydenham to have a free car park just off the High Street and within walking distance of all shops up to Cobbs Corner! So if you really have to drive to Sydenham it is so easy to park! Frankly I have no idea why local people drive here ...walking, biking and good bus services (I know the problems at the moment but those are temporary) ...and free parking ....what more could we ask for...apart from the usual bit about not having so many empty shops!

Well I would hate to see a an example of bad bus services if what we have counts as good - TFL itself currently rates Bell Green as being 5 where 1 is the best and 6 the worst for public transport! Possibly things are different from where you live?

I haven't seen those ratings! 194 to and from Croydon and connection to Penge to pick up buses to and from Bromley and Woolwich! 202 to and from Blackheath. 450 to and from Crystal palace. 176 to and from centre of London. 197 ...can't remember to and from where; same with 122 . 75 to and from Lewisham. 356 also to Penge and other areas of Croydon. I expect I have forgotten some. And my original comment forgot to include train stations available ...lower Sydenham , Sydenham, Sydenham hill, Penge east and west! I live in Sydenham btw not "upper" or " mid" Sydenham, and am well aware of bell green.

parker · Post by **parker** » 10 Jul 2018 18:01

It’s a bit of a long shot if we’re talking about Bell Green to bother mentioning any other train station other than Lower Sydenham, and any other bus routes other than the 194,181, 202, 356, 352 and 450, the 75 would be pushing it, and 197 doesn’t even come close.

Maybe the low rating is because Bell Green is no man’s land, and is as far away as it gets in London to a Major or Metropolitan Centre.

JGD · Post by **JGD** » 10 Jul 2018 20:58

Thank you parker - how could I omit the treasured 352.

And whilst the 75 does not reach Bell Green - it is a real diamond if you are in Sydenham and want an alternative route to Catford.

biscuitman1978 · Post by **biscuitman1978** » 10 Jul 2018 21:58

JGD wrote:Would be interested to see where TfL publishes this result and how it scores the locations using what criteria.

You can check the Public Transport Accessibility Level (PTAL) for a given location at https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/urban-plann ... cat/webcat

The method behind the calculation of PTALs is set out in Table 2.1 (pages 18 and 19) of the document at http://content.tfl.gov.uk/connectivity- ... -guide.pdf

Larky · Post by **Larky** » 11 Jul 2018 12:29

I may be wrong, but I was in the car park today and I think that they are putting parking fee machines in.

Pally · Post by **Pally** » 11 Jul 2018 20:35

parker wrote:It’s a bit of a long shot if we’re talking about Bell Green to bother mentioning any other train station other than Lower Sydenham, and any other bus routes other than the 194,181, 202, 356, 352 and 450, the 75 would be pushing it, and 197 doesn’t even come close.

Maybe the low rating is because Bell Green is no man’s land, and is as far away as it gets in London to a Major or Metropolitan Centre.

We weren't originally talking about Bell Green, just Sydenham in general! I don't understand frankly how anyone can say we are badly served for buses...and as I said further up thread, for train station options, car parking as well.

Pally · Post by **Pally** » 11 Jul 2018 20:37

Larky wrote:I may be wrong, but I was in the car park today and I think that they are putting parking fee machines in.

That's a pity!

biscuitman1978 · Post by **biscuitman1978** » 11 Jul 2018 21:49

JayB wrote:Well I would hate to see a an example of bad bus services if what we have counts as good - TFL itself currently rates Bell Green as being 5 where 1 is the best and 6 the worst for public transport! Possibly things are different from where you live?

I think you'll find it's the other way round: 0 is the lowest level of public transport accessibility and 6b is the highest. See the map key at https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/urban-plann ... cat/webcat

And Bell Green is PTAL 3, not 5. See the map at https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/urban-plann ... cat/webcat

Sydenham Town Forum

The Community Voice for London SE26 since 2004