New yoga studio?

[TredownMan]

Is it just me or are there a lot of empty shops on the high street at the moment?

The charity shop next to Zanara court seems to have gone, and there’s another shop empty next to bottle cave. Then further up the estate agents next to Sainsbury’s is still shuttered, and the whole of the Cobbs corner site. And the shops either side of Sugahill seem permanently shuttered. It was looking like a ghost town this weekend.

[Tim Lund]

Is it just me or are there a lot of empty shops on the high street at the moment?

The charity shop next to Zanara court seems to have gone, and there’s another shop empty next to bottle cave. Then further up the estate agents next to Sainsbury’s is still shuttered, and the whole of the Cobbs corner site. And the shops either side of Sugahill seem permanently shuttered. It was looking like a ghost town this weekend.

Another one where STFers have been round the houses, so to speak. Here's one relatively recent thread

Empty shops

There have also been attempts to use the energies directed towards this Forum to compile a sort of crowd sourced local shopping directory

List of Sydenham shops/businesses?

It's the sort of thing which it would be nice to see working, but realistically, it would probably be better to focus efforts on JMLF's mural project.

I know I started it a few posts back, but this does now seem to have gone off at a tangent. Something for Admin to tidy up?

[leenewham]

This is an opportunity for new blood to come into the high street, if the right businesses fill these empty spaces, help existing businesses and create organic regeneration of Sydenham Road.

I don't see it as a negative. I know that sounds strange, but empty shops are always the start of regeneration and change, especially when enlightened shops and traders get together to decide the fate of their high street for the good of all.

[El Cid]

I was told by a shop owner in the high street that the rent for the yoga studio premises is £34,000 per year!

[leenewham]

It's £24k a year for 1,220.00 square feet. Per square foot it's cheaper than a place under the same Estate Agents in the run down Knights Hill in West Norwood and much much less than another place they have in Tooting.

http://www.smithprice.co.uk/properties/ ... -5QF/97878

[Pat Trembath]

With, as I understand, only 5 years remaining on the Lease.

[leenewham]

Not according to the details online Pat:
The property is held on a lease for a term of 10 years from September 2014 with one rent review at the end of the fifth year. There are tenant only break clauses in September 2018 and September 2022. The current rental is £24,000 p.a. excl. Rates are about another 10k on top.

[Ghlpc]

So doesn't that mean it's 10 years from Sep 2014....so lease expires in 2024..?

And by that assumption a rent review after 5 years is in 2019...so a new tenant could find a rent increase after just one year....

Maybe I'm wrong...

[Sydenham]

Looks like this application for change of use was turned down by the Council yesterday because of insufficient information provided by the applicant. Looks like they didn't submit required impact assessments. Decision notice here:

http://planning.lewisham.gov.uk/online- ... 654769.pdf

Or that is my reading of this document:

1. The proposed change of use fails to comply with Class J.1(d) of Part 3, Schedule 2,
The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order
2015 (as amended).
2. The details provided are insufficient for the purposes of determining the noise, and
highway impacts of the proposals on the neighbouring residential and commercial
properties given the non-submission of a Noise Impact, and Highways Assessments and
details of any mitigation measures.

[JMLF]

I was just about to post too. Obviously you are more in the know but I’m just gonna paste what I was gonna anyways lol!



I’ve sent the below email and tweeted (which now probably seems a little ott if it’s the fault of the studio not producing appropriate docs!). Would just suggest others contact relevant people to support anything which the council or other may not be actively supporting..

[The Clown]

It may be worth bearing in mind that the reality of Council Funding is such that the engagement with local communities and industry is no longer what it was. Back in the day, you would be able to have a conversation about what was and wasn't viable, how to get passed "go" and what and how to appease the planners before submitting.

These days as Council's are so underfunded, you can rarely speak to anyone directly to obtain a bit of a steer and it becomes a bit of a box ticking exercise from what I can gather and if you don't tick them all, "system says no" and it's back to the start.

The trick is to try to get it right first time. This is where a Trader's association etc. would probably be useful. Sharing knowledge and opportunity.

There are challenges with this site as it is too small for most operations. The yoga studio could be a good use for it, but the various access statements and noise assessments would still need to be included as with any application (even if they think everyone will walk to the venue and all that are doing is saying Namaste and Chanting).
There is a private residence right behind the store. It's amazing how noise travels, so they will need to provide the suitable evidence to make sure that they (amongst others) are not affected.

[Timbo79]

Not sure I've ever seen a more ridiculous planning decision than this. Bookies are parasites in the local community and there are plenty of others. Planners and councillors should be biting the hand off anyone who wants to change the use of the property, particularly one that essentially has wellbeing at it's heart. Not into yoga myself but I am astonished and disappointed by this.

[mosy]

Looks like this application for change of use was turned down by the Council yesterday because of insufficient information provided by the applicant. Looks like they didn't submit required impact assessments. Decision notice here:

http://planning.lewisham.gov.uk/online- ... 654769.pdf

Or that is my reading of this document:

1. The proposed change of use fails to comply with Class J.1(d) of Part 3, Schedule 2,
The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order
2015 (as amended).
2. The details provided are insufficient for the purposes of determining the noise, and
highway impacts of the proposals on the neighbouring residential and commercial
properties given the non-submission of a Noise Impact, and Highways Assessments and
details of any mitigation measures.

Yes, that's exactly what the Decision Notice says - in short an incomplete application. The council would have no alternative but to refuse it as presented. Simply by the letter of the book, so nothing to do with subjective or extraneous concerns.

The yoga studio will no doubt make the necessary impact and assessment reports and represent the completed application for approval in due course.

PS: Dratted "doc unavailable". Try this: http://planning.lewisham.gov.uk/online- ... 654769.pdf

[syd]

You'd think on a dying high street in 2018 the council would have a conversation with the applicant rather than just rejecting the application like it was 1908. The world has moved on and these bureaucrats just seem to like to say no.

It's complete bollocks.

[Pally]

You'd think on a dying high street in 2018 the council would have a conversation with the applicant rather than just rejecting the application like it was 1908. The world has moved on and these bureaucrats just seem to like to say no.

It's complete bollocks.

I think lack of time in drastically reduced capacity departments might have something to do with it rather than bureaucrats liking to say No!!

Having said that, in my experience the problem with cutbacks/staff redundancies are exacerbated by the lack of any accompanying review of working practice.

[syd]

You'd think on a dying high street in 2018 the council would have a conversation with the applicant rather than just rejecting the application like it was 1908. The world has moved on and these bureaucrats just seem to like to say no.

It's complete bollocks.

I think lack of time in drastically reduced capacity departments might have something to do with it rather than bureaucrats liking to say No!!

Having said that, in my experience the problem with cutbacks/staff redundancies are exacerbated by the lack of any accompanying review of working practice.

Before the Nando's debacle I would have taken your word for it. It's all bs. I don't trust Lewisham council and I reckon once they realise they are being watched this application will be approved. They can't get away with treating us residents like garbage anymore.

[Tim Lund]

I'm reminded of this

Insufficient information has been submitted to demonstrate that the proposed
development would adequately mitigate against noise from existing commercial
premises within the application building, thereby resulting in a poor standard of
accommodation contrary Paragraph 123 of the National Planning Policy Framework
(NPPF) (2012). Therefore, pursuant with paragraph O.2(d) of Class O, Part 3,
Schedule 2 of the General Permitted Development Order 2015 (as amended 2016)
prior approval is required and refused.

I wonder if refusing on the grounds of noise is what planning officers do round here if they want a quiet life

[Steveofsyd]

I wish people would stop blaming council incompetence, lack of vision etc. on lack of funding. They seem to have had lots of time to spend on the Greyhound, Nandos and other things so I fail to see why someone would not simply have picked up a phone or written to the prospective tenants to advise and help them to pass the red tape. Isn’t it in their interests?
Noise wise I doubt there would be more than the TVs and shouting in the betting shop.
In addition we have heard so much about Obesity in the Nandos case that you’d think this was a shoe in on the grounds of being good for community health,
I probably wouldn’t use it but can see that it’s something that is a darn site better than a betting shop, another estate Agent, or being empty.
An absolute disgrace which is frankly the norm.

[Pally]

You'd think on a dying high street in 2018 the council would have a conversation with the applicant rather than just rejecting the application like it was 1908. The world has moved on and these bureaucrats just seem to like to say no.

It's complete bollocks.

I think lack of time in drastically reduced capacity departments might have something to do with it rather than bureaucrats liking to say No!!

Having said that, in my experience the problem with cutbacks/staff redundancies are exacerbated by the lack of any accompanying review of working practice.

Before the Nando's debacle I would have taken your word for it. It's all bs. I don't trust Lewisham council and I reckon once they realise they are being watched this application will be approved. They can't get away with treating us residents like garbage anymore.

My comment was in reference to the "like to say No!", no more, no less. I also think some very odd refusals take place and would agree that a phone call and working with applicant would be a more useful use of time!

[JGD]

The members and officers could have elected to grant permission and then clarify the two issues highlighted in their rejection.

In another application not 1m miles away on Kirkdale, a Change of Use application, which had no Noise Survey or Impact statement included, was granted, with these conditions

"3. (a) Prior to first operation of the A3 use hereby approved, details of proposals for XXXX and XXXX shall have been submitted to
and approved in writing by the local planning authority.
(b) The facilities as approved under part (a) shall be provided in full prior to commencement of the A3 use and shall thereafter be permanently retained and maintained."

and

"7. (a) Prior to first operation of the A3 use, a noise survey and details of any measures required to alleviate noise impact arising from plant associated with the proposed use on nearby residential properties shall be submitted to and approved in writing by the local planning authority.
(b) Any noise alleviation measures approved under part (a) of this condition shall be installed in accordance with the approved plans and specification before use of the development hereby permitted first commences and shall thereafter be permanently maintained in accordance with the approved specification."

It is the absence of consistency and qualitative approach in the decision process that is less than satisfactory and on balance unacceptable..