RUMOURS: CINEMA AND NANDOS COMING TO SYDENHAM

[prince]

I have just checked the Council's planning portal and it says planning permission GRANTED!

Well done to all those who have supported the campaign to get the planning permission which will secure major and much needed investment in our town centre.

I will be joining the conga around Cobbs Corner this weekend to celebrate!

Of note there appears to be a growing appetite among residents, particularly on this Forum, about the need to work together to bring about further positive change, which is great.

Very happy for like minded people who are interested in doing this to private message me so we can plan our next course of action!

Those who oppose investment and bringing about change need not apply!

[Likelife]

I have just checked the Council's planning portal and it says planning permission GRANTED!

Well done to all those who have supported the campaign to get the planning permission which will secure major and much needed investment in our town centre.

I will be joining the conga around Cobbs Corner this weekend to celebrate!

Of note there appears to be a growing appetite among residents, particularly on this Forum, about the need to work together to bring about further positive change, which is great.

Very happy for like minded people who are interested in doing this to private message me so we can plan our next course of action!

Those who oppose investment and bringing about change need not apply!

I had to check it myself! Can't believe anything these days with all these Russian bots In all seriousness, thank you to those who supported it and those who got on their case!

I'd gladly be involved wherever I can. I'm a student who recently realised I actually want to go into planning/urban development instead of IR...

[syd]

I have just checked the Council's planning portal and it says planning permission GRANTED!

Well done to all those who have supported the campaign to get the planning permission which will secure major and much needed investment in our town centre.

I will be joining the conga around Cobbs Corner this weekend to celebrate!

Of note there appears to be a growing appetite among residents, particularly on this Forum, about the need to work together to bring about further positive change, which is great.

Very happy for like minded people who are interested in doing this to private message me so we can plan our next course of action!

Those who oppose investment and bringing about change need not apply!

Round of applause for Prince! This is such great news hopefully more investment will follow

[JMLF]

Brilliant news regardless of your opinion on Nando's and whether you intend to use or not.

I know it's been said many times but as a whole for the community I think a Nando's (or anything remotely similar) will be of far more use to far more people than a wedding shop (previous usage) or an empty unit. In addition, Nando's doesn't look like a mess from the outside and is pretty popular which again I think will only add to the area. Additionally I can definitely see it having some benefit, even if small, on the shops in the vicinity (blue mountain, inkwa tattoo, sugar hill, the greyhound) for those who don't tend to go to that side of the station but are drawn to a Nando's!

On a side note, something some people may benefit from and be unaware of is a 20% discount up to £20 for anyone working for any emergency services, NHS (woohoo me!) and military.

Happy Friday all.

[Pat Trembath]

It would appear we are still awaiting an unconditional permission.

Attached to the permission is a clause (as I read it):

(a) No development approved under this permission shall commence until details of the following works to the highway (including drawings and specifications) have been submitted to and approved in writing by the local planning authority: (i) the provision of a loading bay on Spring Hill; (ii) the provision of 10 cycle parking spaces on the footpath in the vicinity of the site. (b) The A3 use hereby approved shall not be first operated until the highways works referred to in paragraph (a) of this condition have been implemented in accordance with the details approved under the said paragraph (a). Reason: In order to ensure that satisfactory means of servicing is provided, to ensure that the development does not prejudice the free flow of traffic or conditions of general safety along the neighbouring highway and to comply with Policy 14 Sustainable movement and transport of the Core Strategy (June 2011). This is a precommencement condition because the local planning authority needs to be satisfied that the proposed and required Highways Works necessary to facilitate the development can be satisfactorily designed and provided before the use commences.

So it would appear that further approval following sumissions to Highways and permissions is required and it is, and has been since May, up to Nando's to supply this information.

Originally, as I understood it, Nando's wanted a 40 ft designated parking place in Springhill for a rigid 11m delivery vehicle. Not sure if this has changed - but if not, how does such a vehicle get into and out of Springhill when it is busy?

It would also appear that discussions are ongoing about where to park 10 cycles 'on the footpath' for the take away.

The Sydenham Society welcomed a change of use to A3 (restaurant) to this site last May, but we still await the outcome of this discussion between Nando's and Lewisham which is ongoing.

[prince]

It would appear we are still awaiting an unconditional permission.

Attached to the permission is a clause (as I read it):

(a) No development approved under this permission shall commence until details of the following works to the highway (including drawings and specifications) have been submitted to and approved in writing by the local planning authority: (i) the provision of a loading bay on Spring Hill; (ii) the provision of 10 cycle parking spaces on the footpath in the vicinity of the site. (b) The A3 use hereby approved shall not be first operated until the highways works referred to in paragraph (a) of this condition have been implemented in accordance with the details approved under the said paragraph (a). Reason: In order to ensure that satisfactory means of servicing is provided, to ensure that the development does not prejudice the free flow of traffic or conditions of general safety along the neighbouring highway and to comply with Policy 14 Sustainable movement and transport of the Core Strategy (June 2011). This is a precommencement condition because the local planning authority needs to be satisfied that the proposed and required Highways Works necessary to facilitate the development can be satisfactorily designed and provided before the use commences.

So it would appear that further approval following sumissions to Highways and permissions is required and it is, and has been since May, up to Nando's to supply this information.

Originally, as I understood it, Nando's wanted a 40 ft designated parking place in Springhill for a rigid 11m delivery vehicle. Not sure if this has changed - but if not, how does such a vehicle get into and out of Springhill when it is busy?

It would also appear that discussions are ongoing about where to park 10 cycles 'on the footpath' for the take away.

The Sydenham Society welcomed a change of use to A3 (restaurant) to this site last May, but we still await the outcome of this discussion between Nando's and Lewisham which is ongoing.

Sorry I think you are misunderstanding matters and I think things have moved on.

Yes, the local planning authority has granted planning permission subject to a number of conditions, however this is not at all unusual for the vast majority of permissions have conditions.

The consent approves a range of documents including a servicing plan and transport technical note.

The approved documents include agreement for and location of a 12m loading bay on Spring Hill and additional cycle bays on Kirkdale.

The highways team have agreed all of this and as such all the conditions are doing is seeking agreement on the exact details in terms of specifications, things like the type of cycle stands etc.

I do appreciate your concern about deliveries, however Sainsburys currently manage to negotiate Spring Hill don’t they and they use the same sized vehicles as Nandos. The information supplied by the applicant also clearly demonstrates how a delivery vehicle will service the site by way of computer ‘tracking’ which has also been agreed by the highways team.

As I have said before the provision of a loading bay located in Spring Hill will be suitable for use not only by Nandos but also will also benefit other local businesses. It is supported by both Sainsburys and your favourite the Greyhound for it will be convenient for them to load from.

I hope that this helps to clarify matters. I know for a fact that you were concerned about such issues, for you actually wrote a letter of objection on behalf of the Sydenham Society in April, which the Chair subsequently withdrew in June.

I also know from having spoken to you that you don’t like Nandos and you said that you would much prefer a business like Pizza Express.

However what you need to appreciate is that businesses like Pizza Express and like Sainsburys, have large delivery vehicles. The vast majority of restaurants provide takeaways, just like ours in Sydenham. Also businesses like Pizza Express and many other use delivery services like Deliveroo – which is catering for changing consumer habits.

What is clear to me is that while some people won’t go and eat in Nandos, a great many of our local residents welcome a family friendly restaurant in the town centre, that will bring a large vacant premises back into use, create new jobs and attract further investment.

We also live in a very diverse community and I think the town needs to cater for everyone not just the few.

[The Clown]

Hungry and excited - my first ever Nando’s will be in this restaurant!

[prince]

We also live in a very diverse community and I think the town needs to cater for everyone not just the few.

What bilge. You have no more idea that a Nandos reflects the needs of everyone than I do! What are basing this on? Has there been some consumer surveying going on Prince?

Equally, in what sense are you bringing in diversity? What does that even mean? In the racial sense???

Yawn. Read what I said. We need a diversity of offer to meet the needs of a diverse community.

[syd]

Nando’s is very popular amongst teenagers as a place to go and meet or go on a date. The restaurant Is a place young people can socialise in and have their first restaurant/dining experience away from parents.

Also popular with families.

This is a welcome new addition to Sydenham.

I love Nando's! As I've said before it's a good mid priced restaurant and when the main store on the high street is empty no one should be sniffy about an international brand wanting to invest. They've done the market research for others to follow. Waitrose followed Nando's to Vauxhall so you never know!!

[Likelife]

In Nandos you normally have people from all demographics (racial, age, religion etc.) eating and working there. Its affordable and doesn't aim to just please an adult middle-class market. Most young people in Sydenham when going for a meal don't think to go to the Italian restaurant, even if it is affordable, because of a perception it's for "proper adults" and maybe families. They (we), go Beckenham or elsewhere for a meal because there isn't a restaurant aimed at the teenage-young adult market here. That's how it's making it (Sydenham) diverse. Also, dismissing Nando's as another "chicken shop" is unhelpful and misleading because of cheap chicken connotations. It's like calling the Italian "a pizza shop" or an Indian a "curry shop".

[Pat Trembath]

I would just to put matters straight as the Sydenham Society seems to have been called out as a major objector.

On 25 April 2017, soon after the planning application was submitted, I, as a member of the Conservation and Planning Committee, and on behalf of the Sydenham Society, following discussion about possible concerns, sent a ‘holding’ comment about the application, which had not included any takeaway/delivery options within the application.

The wording (no more, no less) was as follows:

“Dear Planning

DC/17/100519 - application for change of use to A3.

With reference to the above application:

Whilst the Sydenham Society has no objection in principle to the change of use for these former A1/A2 units, the Sydenham Society would request that the applicants confirm that there is no intention of takeaway/home delivery (A5) intended for this business, which we understand will become Nando's as soon as planning permission is granted.

This is an extremely busy road junction/bus route at the edge of Cobbs Corner roundabout and any additional traffic as a result of A5 would not be welcome.

Kind regards

Pat Trembath”

After further consultation within the society, aware that Highways and Planning were in discussion with Nando’s about their plans which turned out to include both takeaway and delivery from the site, the concerns about A5 use were withdrawn. There have been no further comments from the Sydenham Society since 25 April to Planning following the above application or on any other relevant matters..

Discussions with Nando’s, Highways and Planning have continued since May 2017 and, appear to be ongoing. Any hold up with the planning application has come from this and not from, as I am aware, any other source.

Such ‘objection’ should no longer be on Lewisham’s file as it was 'withdrawn'.

However, I have no problem with my emailed comments of 25 April 2017 {over 6 months ago) being made public, 'and attributed'.

[Steveofsyd]

Wonderful news for the community.

[JMLF]

Dear Rod (and others),

Reading this, I really was a bit surprised by the apparent facts but also the slightly vague comment of KFC being healthier than Nando's as there are always going to be things on a KFC menu that are a healthier option than on a Nando's menu and vice versa. A blanket statement like that would be similar to saying that Burger King is healthier than pret. Yes to some degree there may be better options as some of prets sandwiches/hot foods are pretty bad but they have a load of stuff which is definitely healthier than a double cheese bacon whopper.

Anyways, I thought I'd check the two websites and pick some of what I, admittedly subjectively, would consider more popular items on the menu and compared them as well as could.

Nando's:
1/4 chicken - 298 cals, 8.6 fat, 1.9 saturated
KFC:
2 pieces chicken - 485, 28.6, 5.6

Nando's:
Chicken burger - 387, 8.3, 1.2
Chicken pitta - 530, 10.5, 1.4
KFC:
Filet burger - 450, 15, 2.4 (this is one of their "healthiest" burger aswell!)

Nando's:
Chips - 465, 18.6, 1.5
KFC:
Chips - 310, 14.6, 2.1

So, I'm not quite sure where this information you acquired was from. In addition a lot of the 1 person meal options from KFC were over 1000 calories and over 50g fat.

Of course there are bad options and better at both places but the same is true of anywhere. It is the person's responsibility to have knowledge and make an informed decision. I would argue that a lot of the meals at Gurkhas, Trat Raff and The Dolphin for example probably have higher levels of calories/fat etc than things on a KFC or Nando's menu but it's not something people are up in arms about as they are seen in a different light.
Equally, many people were positive about Bobs opening yet from another perspective it stocks booze, a potentially fatal contributor to poor health.

There will always be different opinions on matters and some can not be argued against such as obesity rates, however taking Nando's as an example:
- it is a sit in restaurant
- It does not have cheap (or expensive) food so school children won't be getting a piece of chicken and chips for £1.50 on the way home.
- It is healthier to some extent and has a wider variety of options than other possible food outlets
- It is a social venue for younger people to meet
- It is an alternative, affordable family meal venue compared to anywhere else nearby
- It will occupy and empty space
- It will provide some jobs
- It may increase footfall for that particular area of shops

I think these overriding factors make me feel this is a positive addition to the community and like ANY restaurant, there will be healthier and less healthy choices to be made by people, but unlike the current obesity problem which appears rooted in cheap chicken/chip shops, £1 big bag of crisps or multipacks of chocolate bars etc, Nando's doesn't offer those options of cheap unhealthy foods or larger amounts of food = cheaper price (like a KFC value meal or bucket) - whether you order a "meal" or order the same things separately I think only works out 10p different.

Anyways, just felt like I had to say my 2 cents.

[Steveofsyd]

Hear hear JMLF ....

[appletree]

This hysteria over obesity is simply bizarre given the type of restaurant Nando's is and what else is on offer in the area, about which no fit is being thrown.

People who don't want to eat there don't have to. But don't make up spurious objections.

[prince]

This hysteria over obesity is simply bizarre given the type of restaurant Nando's is and what else is on offer in the area, about which no fit is being thrown.

People who don't want to eat there don't have to. But don't make up spurious objections.

There have been so many spurious objections in relation to this application appletree, which have been highlighted in this thread previously.

Anyhow to part some good news, for those of us who want this to happen, is that I spoke to the Head of Acquisitions last week and they informed me that the landlord needs to do some work before they can start, however they think their fit out will take about 3 - 4 months to complete.

So what with Christmas, landlord works and everything else, my best estimate will be a summer 2018 opening.

[mosy]

prince, I'm always more optimistic when income is being forfeited by not being open, so I'll go for an Easter opening... I usually lose my bets though

In general, I suspect a lot of the less well-off kids in Lewisham might be latch-key who come out of school famished (they have hollow legs at age 12-16 if active), so buy what they can afford, either as their tea or to tide them over. As said, Nandos isn't aimed at that market. I'd compare Nandos (foodwise) to Selim's kebab shop or Shirin's (e.g. their falafel wraps) or Dilz cafe all of which have good food (and all dearer than snack money) and some seating but aren't exactly family venues, so Nandos is a different offering.

Incidentally, creamy dressing on otherwise healthy salads or burgers is often a forgotten calorie-intense item. Cheese is also calorific, but they're quality calories from the protein and calcium not just empty calories as are those from sugary drinks. Also, fat keeps the tummy full for longer as it takes longer to digest so isn't "bad" as we need fat unless eating an excess amount in overall food intake.

I wholly agree with Likelife that it will be great for the Cobb's Corner roundabout area if Nandos attracts those who'd otherwise go to Lordship Lane eateries for instance.

Incidentally, will it become popularly known as Nandos Corner now, especially as it has a bus stop outside, which of course The Greyhound doesn't?

[Sydenhamman]

If you are so concerned about the potential impact on obesity Rod, why did you not write in to object to the planning application? You had more than ample time - eight months in fact, rather than raise it as an issue now, when planning permission has been granted.

For information, the planning officers report said there was only one letter of objection - one from the Sydenham Society, which was subsequently withdrawn, and nine letters in support.

[Sydenham]

Thanks Pat for clarifying the involvement (not really "active") of the Sydenham Society in the ongoing Nandos application. Good to clarify.

[syd]

This hysteria over obesity is simply bizarre given the type of restaurant Nando's is and what else is on offer in the area, about which no fit is being thrown.

People who don't want to eat there don't have to. But don't make up spurious objections.

There have been so many spurious objections in relation to this application appletree, which have been highlighted in this thread previously.

Anyhow to part some good news, for those of us who want this to happen, is that I spoke to the Head of Acquisitions last week and they informed me that the landlord needs to do some work before they can start, however they think their fit out will take about 3 - 4 months to complete.

So what with Christmas, landlord works and everything else, my best estimate will be a summer 2018 opening.

Woohoo!! Great work on this one Prince!