No idea, but there were at least three plastic policemen milling about the station this morning at half eight wielding little notebooks with "stop and search" written on them.
excellent use of police resources.
i am sure all us knife wielding/drug carrying working commuters are now discouraged from committing armed acts of violence on public transport.
wankers.
Oyster Card introduction shut station gates
It's just bullshit policing.
I'm not a fan of the plackies in the first place (it's an attempt to stooge us into thinking the government is putting more cops on the streets), but seeing as how we've got them...what the hell is their use at peak time midweek on a train platform?
I wouldn't have minded if there were ticket inspectors there.
The gate was open when I arrived tonight at about 6:45pm.
It was closed this morning.
The idiots have got the open/close routine the wrong way round.
I'm not a fan of the plackies in the first place (it's an attempt to stooge us into thinking the government is putting more cops on the streets), but seeing as how we've got them...what the hell is their use at peak time midweek on a train platform?
I wouldn't have minded if there were ticket inspectors there.
The gate was open when I arrived tonight at about 6:45pm.
It was closed this morning.
The idiots have got the open/close routine the wrong way round.
Oh dear - got off 1735 from Lon Bridge at Sydenham tonight and it was chaos trying to get through the ticket barriers. Loads of people, not enough ticket barriers. Will be even worse if there is a queue in the morning and you then have to leg it over the bridge. So annoying when you already live over the other side of the tracks!
How is the petition etc going?
How is the petition etc going?
Tomorrow morning is your chance to meet the managers from Southern Railways at London Bridge station concourse.
Time: June 19, 2008 from 7:30am to 9:30am
Location: London Bridge Station
Organized By: Southern Railways
Southern's Meet the Managers programme gives passengers the chance to meet senior managers and directors and talk with them about the service - (such as arbitrary decisions to restrict access to and from Sydenham station by fare-paying passengers). It's your chance to speak directly to the people who make the decisions which affect you and get a response on the spot. You'll get an insight into the running of Southern, and hearing your views will help us to improve the services and facilities we provide. Information about the questions you asked our managers at the last session are listed below. You can also read information about common questions and answers from the previous Meet the managers sessions by going to the Your Questions section. Meetings are held every four weeks alternating between London Bridge and Victoria stations and are always in the morning peak, which is the time we have found that most passengers have time to stop and talk.
Time: June 19, 2008 from 7:30am to 9:30am
Location: London Bridge Station
Organized By: Southern Railways
Southern's Meet the Managers programme gives passengers the chance to meet senior managers and directors and talk with them about the service - (such as arbitrary decisions to restrict access to and from Sydenham station by fare-paying passengers). It's your chance to speak directly to the people who make the decisions which affect you and get a response on the spot. You'll get an insight into the running of Southern, and hearing your views will help us to improve the services and facilities we provide. Information about the questions you asked our managers at the last session are listed below. You can also read information about common questions and answers from the previous Meet the managers sessions by going to the Your Questions section. Meetings are held every four weeks alternating between London Bridge and Victoria stations and are always in the morning peak, which is the time we have found that most passengers have time to stop and talk.
I think that it is hardly surprising that queues are forming at the new gate - the gate simply isn't big enough to let passengers through effectively and quickly.
I arrived at Sydenham station last night at around 10.30pm from East Croydon. The gate on the up platform was closed. Just to check, I thought i'd press the buzzer to see if I could get out of the station via the gate if I was disabled, carrying heavy luggage or pushing a buggy.
There was nor response.
My wife crossed the footbridge and heard the buzzzer sound in the now empty and locked ticket office as I pressed the bell.
Could I isssue a warning. If you are disabled (or in need of step-free access) stay away from Sydenham station after 8pm when the staff leave. At best you face a climb over the bridge; at worst you could find yourself trapped on the up platform.
How can this be an acceptable situation?
I arrived at Sydenham station last night at around 10.30pm from East Croydon. The gate on the up platform was closed. Just to check, I thought i'd press the buzzer to see if I could get out of the station via the gate if I was disabled, carrying heavy luggage or pushing a buggy.
There was nor response.
My wife crossed the footbridge and heard the buzzzer sound in the now empty and locked ticket office as I pressed the bell.
Could I isssue a warning. If you are disabled (or in need of step-free access) stay away from Sydenham station after 8pm when the staff leave. At best you face a climb over the bridge; at worst you could find yourself trapped on the up platform.
How can this be an acceptable situation?
Out of curiousity, do we know if Southern have plans to increase staffing at the station? By that I mean do they plan to extend the hours when the station is staffed?
Clearly the new ticket barriers are only effective when staff are on site, as at all other times need to open the gate on platform 2 which does not have ticket barriers (they did this last night so I assume they will continue to do so). Surely this counteracts their arguments for closing the gate on platform 1, or at the very least they should be opening the platform 1 gate also when the station is not staffed?
Clearly the new ticket barriers are only effective when staff are on site, as at all other times need to open the gate on platform 2 which does not have ticket barriers (they did this last night so I assume they will continue to do so). Surely this counteracts their arguments for closing the gate on platform 1, or at the very least they should be opening the platform 1 gate also when the station is not staffed?
my ticket didn't even work in the ticket machine for the past two days and I asked why and if I could get a new one. The response was to keep it away from my mobile phone. So I suppose I need to get two handbags, one to keep my phone in and one to keep my paper ticket in, just to make sure they never get in contact. My gripe is that I can't get a new ticket to replace the defective one so I have to fight my way to get someone to check my ticket and let me through until my ticket expires in July. Lovely.
It was closed when I got home just before 8pm last night (and noticed the staff shutting the station 10 minutes early, just as a train from London Bridge arrived). I thought they were supposed to be opened once the station was closed?
Indeed, what happens if you're on the last train home? Bring a tent, I suppose.nasaroc wrote:At best you face a climb over the bridge; at worst you could find yourself trapped on the up platform.
Hmmmm, I thought that they issued replacements if you have a problem with a paper ticket, I'm sure I know someone who's done that before. Might be worth you trying at a different station, one of the major ones like London Bridge if possible?mysti77 wrote:my ticket didn't even work in the ticket machine for the past two days and I asked why and if I could get a new one. The response was to keep it away from my mobile phone. So I suppose I need to get two handbags, one to keep my phone in and one to keep my paper ticket in, just to make sure they never get in contact. My gripe is that I can't get a new ticket to replace the defective one so I have to fight my way to get someone to check my ticket and let me through until my ticket expires in July. Lovely.
It was terrible yesterday morning when both automatic gates were only set to open toward the platform and the only way out was through the manual gate. There was a crowd of probably 25 people trying to get out and being held up every time there was a problem with the guard checking a ticket. They, in turn, were blocking people who were running for their train from getting in. I also noticed a lot of people getting talked to by the CSOs, but almost all of them seemed to be making complaints rather than getting reprimanded for not having tickets.Suzee wrote:Oh dear - got off 1735 from Lon Bridge at Sydenham tonight and it was chaos trying to get through the ticket barriers.
Seems to have calmed a bit today, but then I was on a later train so I'm not sure if I was just in the wrong place at the wrong time yesterday.
-
Blushingsnail
- Posts: 73
- Joined: 20 Jul 2006 10:38
- Location: Forest Hill
I've only had a problem with a paper ticket once, a few years ago before mobiles were so popular, so the accusation was that I'd kept it too close to my keys (Really? So how come none of my previous tickets stopped working?) They do replace them but (at that time) they would only do it at the station where the ticket had been issued. Since then I've always bought season tickets at the station I use most often, just in case it needs replacing again.
I think they spin out the 'it's your fault because you kept it too close to your keys/mobile/very large magnet' line automatically. Lots of people carry tickets/keys/mobile in one bag without a problem (although I do admit I now keep the ticket in a separate compartment). Sometimes you just get a duff ticket.
I think they spin out the 'it's your fault because you kept it too close to your keys/mobile/very large magnet' line automatically. Lots of people carry tickets/keys/mobile in one bag without a problem (although I do admit I now keep the ticket in a separate compartment). Sometimes you just get a duff ticket.
Hi all, I only found this site very recently after becoming irked at the new gates being installed at Sydenham. I've lived in Sydenham all my life and I use sydenham station almost every day to travel to London Bridge. Although I do not use the plkatform 1 gate I find the attitude of Southern Railway completely unreasonable and pig-headed. I wrote to Jim Dowd last week but, as of now, received no reply. I have drafted a letter to Southern Railway but havn't decided whether it should be sent in its current form. I'd appreciate it if people shared their thoughts on it before I decide whether or not to send it:
However, I feel it would be inappropriate to take such direct action when I am involved in correspondance complaining about them. Invoking powers when one is personally aggrieved is rather unprofessional. Also, I'm not that much of an expert when it comes to railway byelaws.
Kind regards,
Bensonby
I am, as it happens, an "authorised person" (as defined under railway byelaws). Which means in theory I could demand that the gate/barriers are opened if I consider them an "annoyance" or "inconvenience" - indeed, I could remove any person (who had resopnsibility for them) who refused to comply from teh premesis.18/06/08
Dear Sir/Madam,
As of Tuesday the 17th of June 2008 ticket barriers have been in operation on platform 2 at Sydenham Railway Station. As of the same date the step-free access to platform 1 has been severely restricted by means of being locked and only accessible via an intercom system. This highlights two major problems now in existence at Sydenham Station. Namely that disabled access has been severely limited meaning that disabled people that cannot climb the stairs of the footbridge can no longer access the station without permission (by using the intercom) and that access through the few narrow gates restricts, and slows, the flow of passengers at peak times.
It is my opinion that your closure of the gate on platform 1 runs counter to the spirit and the letter of your responsibilities as a service provider under s.21 of the Disability Discrimination Act 1995. The retrograde act of closing the gate has severely limited access for those unable to use the footbridge and the indignity and inconvenience of having to use the intercom is, in my considered opinion, an unreasonable burden placed upon those of the disabled community who wish to access the station. This is especially evident when one considers that up until this point disabled people were able to enter the station without delay and without suffering any kind of scrutiny as to whether they are ‘eligible’ to enter via that gate. The delay afforded to the disabled in having to use an intercom is not something that the able-bodied must suffer when wishing to gain access to the station; therefore you are failing in your duty to:
[S.21(1) of the DDA 1995]“Take such steps as it is reasonable, in all the circumstances of the case, for [the service-provider] to have to take in order to change that practice, policy or procedure so that” [it is no longer] “unreasonably difficult for disabled persons to make use of a service which he provides, or is prepared to provide, to other members of the public.”
Id est: under the current state of affairs it is unreasonable to expect disabled people to wait to be given access to the station (through using the intercom) when able-bodied people do not have to wait, especially when considering the fact that the steps to afford disabled passengers this level of access is so straightforward (by leaving the gate open as previously).
The second major problem at the station is that the gate-capacity is insufficient to properly cope with the volume of passengers alighting from trains during the evening peak. With only two or three gates serving large numbers of passengers all attempting to leave the station through one small area a bottleneck and delays are inevitable. Previously during rush hours the side gate and main ticket office exit were open to allow passengers to leave the station with ease, as was the gate on the opposite platform. Now commuters are forced through a wholly inadequate area.
Railway byelaws prohibit any article remaining on the railway which:
[Railway Byelaw No.2 (1)] “In the opinion of an authorised person, may… annoy… any person”
I can safely assure you that some people are indeed annoyed by the presence of the current gate-setup. Additionally, the railway byelaws prohibit any action by a person that:
[Railway Byelaw No. 6 (8 )] “Wilfully interfere[s] with the…convenience…of any person on the railway”
It is clear to see that the current bottleneck at the evening peak is inconveniencing users of Sydenham Station by delaying them much more than before, therefore if the situation continues then the failure to provide adequate provision for commuters to exit the station in a speedy fashion can only be seen as ‘wilful.’
Certainly I see an operational need to provide an ‘Oystercard’ facility when the extension of the ‘London Overground’ network comes into force. However, it is clear to see that at present Sydenham Station is unsuitable for ticket-barriers. It is perfectly easy to install ‘stand alone’ Oyster Card readers allowing passengers to ‘touch in.’ Such readers were in place at New Cross Gate before the East London Line was closed last year. Whilst revenue can be protected with barriers we must bear in mind that most passengers travelling through Sydenham will be travelling to or from the London Termini, the Croydon Stations, and Sutton – all of which are better suited to accommodating barriers and which do. Passengers passing through these stations will already have been checked for a valid ticket.
Please consider this letter a formal request for you to re-open the gate on Platform 1 at Sydenham (as it was before) and to open the gates during the evening rush and at such other times when the volume of passengers causes a ‘bottleneck’ and inconveniences rail-users by delaying their onward journey.
If I do not receive an adequate response in a reasonable amount of time then I fear that I will be forced to take this matter further.
Yours faithfully,
etc.
However, I feel it would be inappropriate to take such direct action when I am involved in correspondance complaining about them. Invoking powers when one is personally aggrieved is rather unprofessional. Also, I'm not that much of an expert when it comes to railway byelaws.
Kind regards,
Bensonby
Yes, definitely send that letter!
In case anyone is interested, here is a copy of my email sent to Southern on 13/06/08 - no reply from any party as yet...
).
I also noticed that Forest Hill's side gate was wide open (both this morning and in the afternoon) with no guards in sight...
In case anyone is interested, here is a copy of my email sent to Southern on 13/06/08 - no reply from any party as yet...
I had to pop back to my flat this afternoon; 6 or 7 of us tried to get through the gates and only 1 person's ticket worked (I have a swipey-Oyster card and no probs at other stations). Does not bode well for when I try to get back home in rush-hour (not that I usually get out of work early enough!To
chris.burchell@southernrailway.com
cc
mayor@london.gov.uk, jimdowd.newlabour@care4free.net, cllr_chris.best@lewisham.gov.uk, len.duvall@london.gov.uk, info@passengerfocus.org.uk, comments@southernrailway.com
Subject
Sydenham train station access
Mr Burchell
I today discovered that the access gate to Platform 1 (London Bound) at Sydenham train station will be locked from Tuesday 17 June 2008.
This gate is extremely useful for ease of access to and from Platform 1 as it can be accessed without climbing any steps. Instead it is proposed that us paying customers should walk an extra 5 minutes, crossing over 2 roads, over the railway bridge, join in the bottleneck of commuters now all trying to squeeze through 2 barrier-gates, push past the south-bound commuters waiting on Platform 2 and go single file over the totally exposed foot bridge to cross back to Platform 1. This foot bridge is terrible in bad weather and although I am not disabled I am not always totally steady on my feet and I am very concerned about slipping on these steps (particularly if carrying items).
I note that there is an intercom button on the gate to allow disabled persons to gain entry (presumably after a member of staff has questioned them about their disability). I, and no doubt many others, will find it incredibly embarrassing to have to justify entrance through the side-gate and feel that this is a discriminating backwards step. Are parents with buggys, the elderly, the infirm, those with breathing difficulties, those with luggage and so on also to be denied access to their local station?
I am at a loss to know why Southern cannot simply leave the gate open and have touch-beacons like at DLR stations or at New Cross Gate. Afterall, we cannot enter/leave London Bridge station without going through barriers and so are carrying valid tickets (mine being an annual season ticket for example). Perhaps if you deem that Southern customers cannot be trusted like those DLR users, a guard could be stationed there to check valid tickets are being held?
I have copied in other parties to this email in the hope that appropriate pressure and reassurance can be supplied. You may also want to look at the following web-site which shows the depth of feeling and resentment this decision is causing and a petition page which has many comments about how this will have a detrimental effect to us customers.
http://www.sydenham.org.uk/news_oystercard_gate_2.html
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/kee ... page1.html
In short, I would like to have reassurance that if this decision to impede our access is to go ahead as planned that any customer can buzz the intercom to gain (immediate) access to Platform 1 without having to go through the indignity of explaining why they want access.
Regards
).I also noticed that Forest Hill's side gate was wide open (both this morning and in the afternoon) with no guards in sight...
This is an extremely good letter - well done.
Even if we can't all write such well-thought out letters such as this, the least you can do is sign the on-line petition
http://www.gopetition.com/online/18722.html
...or email your GLA member or MP. Their details are:
len.duvall@london.gov.uk
jimdowd.newlabour@care4free.net
Even if we can't all write such well-thought out letters such as this, the least you can do is sign the on-line petition
http://www.gopetition.com/online/18722.html
...or email your GLA member or MP. Their details are:
len.duvall@london.gov.uk
jimdowd.newlabour@care4free.net
I've already signed the petition 
I've just cleared up a bit of the grammar slightly and I'll be putting it in the post first thing. (or maybe I'll email it...with Messers Duval and Dowd CC'd in)
I might go and pick an argument with the managers at London Bridge tomorrow morning too... (If I'm not running late
)
I've just cleared up a bit of the grammar slightly and I'll be putting it in the post first thing. (or maybe I'll email it...with Messers Duval and Dowd CC'd in)
I might go and pick an argument with the managers at London Bridge tomorrow morning too... (If I'm not running late
)Just got back from the station. More inspectors & managers than passengers!
I asked about the gate being shut last night. Thay confirmed that the gate should be open after 8pm (when the station goes unmanned). Apparently although it was left open last night - it appeared to have swung back and re-locked itself.
They apologised and from tonight they plan to chain the gate open. We shall see...
Admin
I asked about the gate being shut last night. Thay confirmed that the gate should be open after 8pm (when the station goes unmanned). Apparently although it was left open last night - it appeared to have swung back and re-locked itself.
They apologised and from tonight they plan to chain the gate open. We shall see...
Admin
Someone who wishes to remain anonymous, suggested to me that a rail user (perhaps disabled or elderly) who wished the gate to remain open, could in theory, do the following....
Wait until after the 8pm and the gate has been chained open. Then fix their own heavy-duty chain and lock to also secure the gate open and then lose the key in a metal recycling bin.
Of course I admonished them for thinking such a rebelious and uncitizen-like thought and consider the matter dealt with.
Just thought I'd let you know
Alib
Wait until after the 8pm and the gate has been chained open. Then fix their own heavy-duty chain and lock to also secure the gate open and then lose the key in a metal recycling bin.
Of course I admonished them for thinking such a rebelious and uncitizen-like thought and consider the matter dealt with.
Just thought I'd let you know
Alib
Illegal vandalism and pointless to boot - heavy-duty bolt or chain cutters, which I'm sure railroads (and police departments) have in ample supply, would make short work of any commercially available length of chain. Not only that, it would most likely just harden their resolve that they're justified in locking the gate against law-breaking hooligans. Tell this anonymous person that it's best to dispute this using the legal means available to us.