RUMOURS: CINEMA AND NANDOS COMING TO SYDENHAM

[Pally]

A quick Google search shows that Nandos has trailled a new home delivery service that has been rolled out nationwide with the last week. So that IS something that needs to be taken into consideration with the planning. I support a Nandos at that site, by the way, but I thought it only fair to mention that Chris Best is not entirely talking out of her hat by raising the takeaway issue.

Even without that, such things as potential takeaway issues are relevant for consideration , if in a planning application, but it isn't in tho case! Presumably Nandos is in discussion re this new initiative with Planning Officer etc!! But what really flummoxes me is the no response to some perfectly reasonable polite follow up questions from various people. Its a pity.

[Ghlpc]

Do we really think that all the customers will walk to nandos? A couple of delivery bikes, if that be the case, will be the least of the parking problems around that area when it opens.

So to focus on that issue does seem strange.

If it really was marked as being the 'delivery hub' of the area, then surely this would be apparent in the design, ie larger kitchen or rear access etc..?

[Chris Best]

The planning officer has advised me that they have been ready to issue a decision on this application since early June, but this would have included a condition preventing takeaway use as the applicant hadn’t indicated their intention to provide a takeaway element or provided any details of same. The applicant requested that the permission was not issued at that time so that they could address the concerns around proposed takeaway use. We are supportive of the restaurant use in principle, and to assist the applicant, planners asked them (on the 13 June) to provide details of the takeaway use so that it could be assessed. While they provided some details by email, the Nando's Transport Note prepared by their consultants was received yesterday. My meeting on site with the representatives from the developers & Nando’s as well as the Sydenham Society was on the 20 June and we discussed the preparation of a master plan so that the additional new housing could be seen in context with the rest of the site. Remember the site is in the Cobbs Corner Conservation Area.

The Council has posted the Transport technical note on the Council’s web site - please search under the planning application number - DC/17/100519 - to read this 16 page document. I have drawn out some of the comments in the comments in the report but please read the report in full as these are only a few of the details:

It is proposed that Deliveroo will operate from the proposed restaurant providing cycle deliveries to the local area.
There are a number of short stay car parking bays (40 mins) surrounding the site including on Kirkdale and Spring Hill which could be used by potential customers collecting take-aways.
As discussed above it is proposed that Deliveroo will operate a delivery service from the proposed Sydenham Nando’s store. Delivery riders can park their cycles on the existing cycle spaces located along Kirkdale frontage adjacent to the site access. In addition, 9 extra cycle spaces will be provided adjacent to the site in accordance with London Plan Standards to ensure sufficient capacity. Riders can wait for their order on a bench within the store. The store will inform Deliveroo riders that they will not be permitted to leave their cycles on the footway whilst waiting to collect their order and must use cycle parking provided.

Nando’s have confirmed that they receive 3-4 deliveries per week which will delivered by a 11.29m rigid vehicle. This will unload via a new loading bay located on Spring Hill adjacent to the service access as agreed with LBL. 40 min parking bays are located on both Kirkdale and Spring Hill frontages which can also be used for deliveries associated with the proposed development. This is consistent with the current arrangement for commercial user. A separate Delivery and Servicing Plan has been agreed and submitted to LBL which covers servicing in greater detail.

As set on in section 1 it is proposed that the restaurant will have 23 tables and 90 covers. In addition to the walk-in customers there is also a takeway service available for either walk-in customers or using the Deliveroo service. Nando’s expect 15% of their daily business to occur from take-aways.

No additional parking should be provided for use classes A2-A5 in town centre locations. The London Plan Cycle Parking Standards require 1 space per 175sqm for Long Stay and 1 space per 40sqm for short stay. Taking into consideration the above 9 cycle parking spaces will be provided. The location will be agreed with LBL.


I think the officers will be asking the applicant to quantify the estimate of 15% takeaway business and considering the 9 cycle parking spaces on the highway for the Deliveroo riders using bicycles. We know the location of Nandos is at a busy intersection and has the potential to cause highway impacts depending on the intensity of the use. As it can be difficult to enforce an ancillary use, it is preferable to fully understand its nature and impacts at the application stage so that we can ensure they are mitigated to a suitable level.

As a local councillor I see my role as seeking clarity on planning applications as well as promoting investment. I try to be even handed in balancing concerns raised by residents so that all aspects are given due consideration. I have said I have no objection to the A3 use but we need to ask the question about home deliveries so we are clear on the impact of bicycles entering a busy roundabout and a narrow bridge with no cycle lane on Sydenham Road.

[leenewham]

One can only wonder how Nandos works perfectly well in Clapham on the junction with the South Circular and Northcote Road. Or on Streatham high road. Or the extremely busy high street in Kentish Town. Or the one in Catford, or Lewisham or Beckenham…

They all offer take away.

Deliveroo works with lots of restaurants in Crystal Palace, Catford, Beckenham and others. If we want to work towards a 'vibrant high street', services such as this surely should be encouraged in Sydenham?

Sydenham competes with other high streets. According to the website, no businesses in Sydenham offer Deliveroo.

Making it easier for a system like Deliveroo to deliver great, local food to peoples homes from your local high street is, in my view, an important part of the survival of the high street. I'd rather that than people taking food away and leaving litter in the street or park.

All shops are essentially take away. The chemists, the supermarket etc. In the future companies like Deliveroo will be offering these services too for home delivery. Many Deliveroo deliveries are by bike. Once again, should be not be encouraging more eco-friendly deliveries and more employment?

Don't we all want a 'vibrant high street' of the future that competes with other high streets, helped by 'can do' problem solving, helpful, pro active local authorities and civic groups?

[mosy]

I am cognisant of what Chris Best wrote, i.e. that info had been requested by the council and was awaited. I don't suppose much will happen until it's received. Chris didn't say what info, i.e. simple request for assurances or clarification, or a revision of Nando's plans in some way. As we still don't really know the whole picture, it could be anything, not necessarily the bikes or just the bikes.

Since Chris Best has said that she personally is in favour, I imagine she'll be doing what she can. (She's not a planning officer after all.)

[prince]

Cllr Best,

Thank you for taking the time to update Forum members which is very useful.

I am glad that you have now said that in principle you support the change of use to A3 restaurant and that you have no objections.

Thank you for also confirming that the proposed delivery service would be ancillary to its main restaurant use. As such it will not be classified as a takeaway, which as you know would be a reason for refusal.

I note that the applicants are proposing a number of additional cycle bays for its Deliveroo service. I appreciate that the Council will wish to agree the exact location for these bikes but I would think that, as one of the most sustainable forms of transport, it would be something that the Council would support.

They are quiet, clean and would cause minimal disturbance to residents. Such a service would also avoid unnecessary trips by car for those wanting to take food home.

I very much hope that the Council can now swiftly move to grant permission, so that we get significant investment in our high street and bring these large vacant units on a flagship site back into use.

[Pally]

Thankyou for the comprehensive reply Chris.

[Mayowthorpe]

Yet another long and drawn out post by those associated with the Sydenham Society.

In amongst the drivel from Chris, where is the substance?

If the likes of Pat and Chris spent as much time being proactive for solutions to Sydenham, as they spend writing responses and objecting to simple planning applications, then the area might be better off.

All I read is "we have been waiting" the road "doesn't have a cycle lane".

Why not be proactive and actually propose solutions, instead of idly waiting and making continuous excuses?

There remain empty shops on our high street, why are we making things challenging for those with positive ideas for the area.

Why do we have people representing the area, who are opposed to change? We continue to look backwards, rather than planning for the future.

Again, where is the value add?

[stuart]

Yet another long and drawn out post by those associated with the Sydenham Society.

In amongst the drivel from Chris, where is the substance?

If the likes of Pat and Chris spent as much time being proactive for solutions to Sydenham, as they spend writing responses and objecting to simple planning applications, then the area might be better off.

Goodness me - we first say they don't use this Forum enough and then criticise them when they do.

I think I can say with confidence that even this is a tiny fraction of the hours they put in (mostly unpaid) for what they see as the benefit of the community. I would never criticise their commitment to Public Service even if I think some of it may be misplaced. Its easy to criticise when they go wrong - and I'm right in there doing it. I do appreciate the stuff they they do that is beneficial. Perhaps you don't see that.

But unless you plan to replace them with even harder working and more responsive people (where are they hiding?) - they are all we have and I would want to be trying to win hearts and minds rather than piss them off. I've seen others give up because of the negativity endemic in our society and not replaced.

Thankfully they have thicker skins than me.

Stuart

[Pally]

Goodness me - we first say they don't use this Forum enough and then criticise them when they do.

I think I can say with confidence that even this is a tiny fraction of the hours they put in (mostly unpaid) for what they see as the benefit of the community. I would never criticise their commitment to Public Service even if I think some of it may be misplaced. Its easy to criticise when they go wrong - and I'm right in there doing it. I do appreciate the stuff they they do that is beneficial. Perhaps you don't see that.

But unless you plan to replace them with even harder working and more responsive people (where are they hiding?) - they are all we have and I would want to be trying to win hearts and minds rather than piss them off. I've seen others give up because of the negativity endemic in our society and not replaced.

Thankfully they have thicker skins than me.

Stuart

Well said Stuart! Much as we may not agree with everything done or said, if we want this Forum used as a useful communication tool and we are asking questions, we have to stop being unnecessarily rude in replies! Its one thing to criticise a Lewisham decision, disagree with Lewisham policies etc and make suggestions for alternatives or highlight other boroughs practices! But its quite another thing, to personalise it to one person who , as repeatedly requested, is reporting back comprehensively on where things are and what is happening!
I am frustrated by Sydenham, I think there is a strange apparent "difficulty" with so many developments, I think there could be considerably better ongoing communication and consultation (formal/informal) , I think changes in style/approach/ thinking are probably needed from some who have been serving the community for many years in various Sydenham groups etc but negative rudeness isn't the way to achieve it however frustrating all that is!

[appletree]

I too appreciate Cllr Best's detailed reply. I do hope, though, that the council will do more to encourage a flourishing high street and welcome development that will help to fill empty shops and improve the area. The idea that things are fine as they are disturbs me, as do interminable delays in planning approval which must be discouraging investment on the area.

[Pally]

I too appreciate Cllr Best's detailed reply. I do hope, though, that the council will do more to encourage a flourishing high street and welcome development that will help to fill empty shops and improve the area. The idea that things are fine as they are disturbs me, as do interminable delays in planning approval which must be discouraging investment on the area.

Yes I agree apple tree.

[Kent House R]

I agree too. Something like this could bring much needed regeneration to the high street. The council needs to do their bit to actively encourage something decent like this to open on this site. It's a priority for Sydenham high street! We need fast enthusiastic action and rapid resolution of any nonsence that could hold this up.

[prince]

Over 23 weeks - nearly 6 months - after the submission of the planning application and still no decision.

Perhaps it's a new planning officer and they think they have 8 months to make a decision rather than the statutory 8 weeks!

[parker]

I think it would be naive to assume that Nando's weren't partially to blame for the length of time it is taking considering the latest documentation sent to Lewisham for the delivery conditions. The main thing that seems plain wrong is that Deliveroo comes into it at all.

I'm sure Waffle Station on Kirkdale didn't have to go through this rigmarole when they decided to use Deliveroo for their business, and they're situated on the same road as the site in question.

Nando's should have requested in the plans to open as a restaurant and bring in Deliveroo 6 months after opening, it's taking them near enough that length of time to go through all this anyway.

[Mayowthorpe]

I think it would be naive to assume that Nando's weren't partially to blame for the length of time it is taking considering the latest documentation sent to Lewisham for the delivery conditions. The main thing that seems plain wrong is that Deliveroo comes into it at all.

I'm sure Waffle Station on Kirkdale didn't have to go through this rigmarole when they decided to use Deliveroo for their business, and they're situated on the same road as the site in question.

Nando's should have requested in the plans to open as a restaurant and bring in Deliveroo 6 months after opening, it's taking them near enough that length of time to go through all this anyway.

I assume you haven't had to deal with Lewisham Council Planning before. They are a disgrace; taking far too long to make decisions and are extremely poor at communication.

[alburt.c]

i hope soon we can have Nando for Sydenham.

[owlwise]

It's only a bunch of bicycles for goodness sake! We're not talking about juggernauts! Get on with it and get it sorted so that another derelict building can come back into use sharpish. FFS!

One Frustrated Local Resident

[prince]

I see from the planning portal that the Council launched a further round of neighbour consultation on 16 August. So there will be further delay in determing this application until this consultation is concluded.

Six months and counting and still no decision.

Meanwhile in a parallel universe....

[mosy]

prince, do you, or anyone, know how a "neighbour consultation" outcome would make a difference if the plans submitted (as amended) are within the parameters of the planning rules by which the council has to abide? I.e. What's the point?

Yours,
"Confused of Tunbridge Wells".