RUMOURS: CINEMA AND NANDOS COMING TO SYDENHAM

[leenewham]

What is Nando's

Is there one in Knightsbridge ?

It's a successful chain of peri peri (Portuguese influenced) chicken shops. They are generally sit down places. They originate from South Africa.

They don't have a branch in Knightsbridge, but they do in Gloucester Road/Clapham/St Christophers Place off Oxford Street, Westfield etc.

They generally look good, but I'm not a fan of the food. It's a sign of confidence in the high street, which is good. I"m generally not a fan of large food chain restaurants with one or two exceptions. What is interesting here is that these chains generally do a lot of research before opening somewhere, which won't go unnoticed. With a number of largish empty units coming on the market soon with the new developments, hopefully, some more interesting businesses will inhabit them rather than estate agents and they won't stay empty long. I think that's why it's getting a fair amount of attention.

The Greyhound won't be too long, it takes time to do a refit and sort everything out with planning, building control etc.

[JRobinson]

There's a Nandos in Catford, going north on Rushey Green, before Aldi.

[Sydenhamman]

Thanks to Pat Trembath for shedding light on the current situation, who says:

"Nando's? For the record, the Sydenham Society has welcomed the arrival of Nando's and has commented favourably as such to Lewisham's Planning Department. Along with others we want to see improvements to the high street and to the evening economy.

Part of the application for change of use to the premises includes Nando's wish to carry out a home delivery service from the premises and there have been discussions about where delivery bikes will be kept when not in operation. The matter rests at present with Highways and Lewisham Planners and needs to be sorted sooner rather than later. A decision is anticipated shortly. Presumably no one is in favour of pavement parking at Cobbs Corner?"
[endquote]

From: https://sydenham.org.uk/forum/viewtopic ... 05#p156757 11 Jul 2017 09.14am

It is good to hear that the Sydenham Society has commented favourably on the application.

I am puzzled to understand however as to why there are questions about home deliveries. I have scoured the application and I can see no reference to this or to delivery bikes. How many bikes are we talking about and are these motorbikes/scooters or push bikes?

The fact is most modern restaurants now offer home delivery services. In fact our existing businesses, places like Gurkhas and Golden City, all offer home delivery, largely by car, but as far as I am aware they do not have dedicated spaces for this. Businesses like Pizza Express, Gourmet Burget etc are increasingly using businesses like Deliveroo to provide home deliveries. Deliveroo mainly use push bikes and if Nandos are suggesting this I really can't see the problem.

[prince]

Thanks to Pat Trembath for shedding light on the current situation, who says:

"Nando's? For the record, the Sydenham Society has welcomed the arrival of Nando's and has commented favourably as such to Lewisham's Planning Department. Along with others we want to see improvements to the high street and to the evening economy.

Part of the application for change of use to the premises includes Nando's wish to carry out a home delivery service from the premises and there have been discussions about where delivery bikes will be kept when not in operation. The matter rests at present with Highways and Lewisham Planners and needs to be sorted sooner rather than later. A decision is anticipated shortly. Presumably no one is in favour of pavement parking at Cobbs Corner?"
[endquote]

From: https://sydenham.org.uk/forum/viewtopic ... 05#p156757 11 Jul 2017 09.14am

It is good to hear that the Sydenham Society has commented favourably on the application.

I am puzzled to understand however as to why there are questions about home deliveries. I have scoured the application and I can see no reference to this or to delivery bikes. How many bikes are we talking about and are these motorbikes/scooters or push bikes?

The fact is most modern restaurants now offer home delivery services. In fact our existing businesses, places like Gurkhas and Golden City, all offer home delivery, largely by car, but as far as I am aware they do not have dedicated spaces for this. Businesses like Pizza Express, Gourmet Burget etc are increasingly using businesses like Deliveroo to provide home deliveries. Deliveroo mainly use push bikes and if Nandos are suggesting this I really can't see the problem.

I am very glad to see some constructive and positive engagement from the Sydenham Society of late about issues that are of particular interest to local residents, which is helpful. Particularly I would like to thank Mary and Ben for their observations and thoughts.

In the spirit of this, i wonder whether a member of the Sydenham Society could shed some more light on the above application.

It has been stated that the Society originally objected to the change of use but now have written in support of the application. However we understand that one of the issues that remains relates to deliveries.

Sydenhamman has made some valid observations about this. I wonder whether someone from the Society can shed light on this and provide clarification about exactly what nandos propose ie. how many bikes will this be and if they will be motorbikes/scooters or push bikes? I ask for after speaking to planning about this again, this still seems to be an issue that is holding up the determination of this application.

Many thanks

[parker]

There seems to be something very strange about this, there is no information in the plans regarding this delivery issue. Would we be having this kind of delay if Pizza Express wanted the unit?

Why have Lewisham not published the comments local residents have made?

Why can't the bay parking space immediately outside the entrance be made specifically for their delivery mopeds? Isn't it a case of repainting the parking space bay outside and at a stretch putting up some signage or is it too much to ask of Lewisham to support the business in this way?

What do they do in other locations on busier stretches of high street than desolate Spring Hill?

Is it really worth this not going ahead and staying derelict like so many other buildings nearby or risk it becoming *another* estate agent?

What is it about this that seems to be rocket science for Lewisham Council?

How long can Lewisham possibly drag their asses on this?

So many questions and very little answers and the Sydenham Society wonder why this forum is negative. I hope somebody can explain what is going on behind the scenes. I for one wouldn't care if they parked on the pavement, let them park outside the Regency Club (might liven it up).

It is ridiculous that people would rather risk Nando's walking away from this over this.

[angela53]

I totally agree

[Sydenhamman]

I have written twice to Councillor Best and also to Cllrs Curran and Onikosi to ask whether they support the application. I have not even received the courteousy of a response.

[conti16]

I really hope this rumours will turn up to be real. Not a big fan of nanados and ideally would like to see something smarter than that so thumbs up for Pizza ex or Carluccio ( even thought I doubt it would be those).
Sydenham needs a real brush up and more variety for the community. So happy that the betting shop closed down on Newland Park road but what will be replaced with?
Not holding my breath, been here for 8 years and not much has changed since moved.

Finger crossed for the better

Manuela

[prince]

I am disappointed to hear that our local councillors have not responded to queries about their support for this application. Are we to conclude that their silence means that they do not support it? If that is the case I really would like to know why.

With an increasing number of empty shop units in our high street, I would have thought that we should be seizing every opportunity for inward investment that brings real life into the high street.

I know Nandos is not everyone's favourite, however are we in such a fortunate position to turn away significant investment from a business which would ultimately be extremely popular with a great many of our local residents?

[parker]

I am disappointed to hear that our local councillors have not responded to queries about their support for this application. Are we to conclude that their silence means that they do not support it? If that is the case I really would like to know why.

With an increasing number of empty shop units in our high street, I would have thought that we should be seizing every opportunity for inward investment that brings real life into the high street.

I know Nandos is not everyone's favourite, however are we in such a fortunate position to turn away significant investment from a business which would ultimately be extremely popular with a great many of our local residents?

It's disgusting that we're still subject to the same backward Labour councillors while Sydenham continues to be a floundering carbuncle. To think this may not happen over this reason is shocking even by Lewisham's standards. Is there really any hope for Sydenham after all?

[mosy]

I am disappointed to hear that our local councillors have not responded to queries about their support for this application. Are we to conclude that their silence means that they do not support it? If that is the case I really would like to know why.
...[clip]...

I would conclude that they hadn't got around to replying to you yet. Maybe a "Second request" reminder? Concluding things for which there is no evidential information is a fool's errand surely.

[sugahill cafe]

We've spoken to a lot of local people since the rumours first started regarding a Nandos opening directly opposite us & have to say generally all positive. It could be a much needed boost for the area.....How can Nandos be good enough for Beckenham but not here we don't understand.

[prince]

I am disappointed to hear that our local councillors have not responded to queries about their support for this application. Are we to conclude that their silence means that they do not support it? If that is the case I really would like to know why.
...[clip]...

I would conclude that they hadn't got around to replying to you yet. Maybe a "Second request" reminder? Concluding things for which there is no evidential information is a fool's errand surely.[/quote

Thank you for your response. I was not the person who wrote to councillors - this was Sydenhamman. If you read his post he says he has written to Cllr Best twice and to the other local Cllrs. Perhaps Sydenhamman might be able to shed light on when he wrote to them.

[Sydenhamman]

Mosy

I wrote to Cllrs Best and Curran in mid June and followed this up with a reminder. Because I had not received a response I wrote to Cllr Onikosi on Saturday.

Thankyou

[Ghlpc]

I think there has been positive change in sydenham in the last 8 years, but probably a lot slower than people hoped so difficult to notice. But you could make an extensive list of new openings definitely...

Agree with sugarhill cafe, I don't think we are in a position to be able to demand the exact types of businesses that should open just yet, just be grateful that another building doesn't lay empty for years..

I admit I had mixed feelings when heard the rumours about nandos, but appreciate where we live and admit it will probably do well.

I've said before and I believe this, that once that corner of sydenham is busy and thriving, it will prove a catalyst that will trickle down the high street.

Yes I'm a glass is half full kinda guy..!

[Mayowthorpe]

You have more chance of seeing the Titanic dock back in Southampton than getting a response from Councillor Best.

Zero value added to the area.

She put me off voting Labour.

[Steveofsyd]

Any news or is this dead in the water?

[prince]

Any news or is this dead in the water?

SteveofSyd,

I rang the planning office last week to get an update. They were reluctant to give away much information other than the application was with highways for comment. As you probably know they have a duty to determine an application within 8 weeks and it is now 24 weeks and still no decision.

I remain perplexed as to why a simple application takes so long to determine.

I understand from comments made on this Forum that the highway issues relate to questions about deliveries from the premises, though there is no reference to this within the application. I fail to understand why a few deliveroo bikes might be an issue - its not as if it is going to be a delivery hub for south London!

[ptmartin]

I dropped a note to our councillors yesterday and received a very swift and full reply...correspondence to follow below:

Dear Chris, Liam and Rachel

Apologies for emailing all 3 of you, as the Lewisham site doesn't suggest a single person for the Sydenham ward.

I attach a screen grab of the local chat room, with neighbours trying to establish what is happening with this development. Everyone I speak to is genuinely excited about the prospect of Nandos' arrival - even those that will never use it (including possible me) - as it hopefully heralds a general and much-needed improvement in the standard of the retail offer in the High Street.

With that in mind, what on earth can possibly be holding this up? The High Street is a real mess with empty shops and concentrated store-types. Surely such a major potential development warrants a bit of impetus from the Council, or is Sydenham to be last in the queue relative to Catford and Deptford once again? It feels like we are the poor relation.

I know there are always issues with change of consent and particularly with retail food. People nearby are living next to the main road though; disturbance to a degree comes with the territory. Arguments about bikes and access, if that's the reality, seem completely fatuous in the bigger picture and the risk of the company giving up on the bureaucracy must grow with every non-happening day.

Please would you mind making representations about how key some of us see this development to the wider hoped-for improvements?

Thank you for your help.

[ptmartin]

Hello Philip

Many thanks for your email. The planning application is for

The change of use of the existing two units from A1/A2 use to A3 use (restaurants and cafés) at 301-303 Kirkdale SE26, together with the creation of an additional entrance from Spring Hill.

Within the application was the request for a 10 metre loading bay on Spring Hill for deliveries.

I welcome the addition of another A3 restaurant as this will enhance the offer in our high street.

The issue for planners is the Nando's home delivery hub and the % of takeaways that would require an application for a change of use to A5. The Council has policies around the granting of further A5s as we have one of the highest levels of A5 takeaways in the country and one of the highest levels of obesity. Restaurants do have an ancillary "de minimum" use - usually for customers who call in for a takeaway pizza as in Trattoria Raffaele but the substantive business is as a sit down restaurant.

Highways are also asking about the transport arrangements for the mopeds and Deliveroo bikes. There are no loading bays on Spring Hill as Sainsbury's agreed to use the loading bay outside the Pavilion on Kirkdale. The traders on the even side of Kirkdale agreed not to have a loading bay as they preferred short term parking for customers. For changes to parking and loading bays there is usually the need for consultation with the traders and residents in this case regarding the loss of parking on Spring Hill.

I understand that officers are waiting on further information from Nando's. I have had an onsite meeting with the developers and the Sydenham Society as this is part of a plan to redevelop the whole of the corner that was originally Cobbs Department store. I have had a conversation with the planning officer and expressed my support for the change of use to A3 and suggested a further meeting to understand the master plan for the site.

By the way I do not agree with your comment that the high street is a real mess and I can give you an update on the empty shops should you wish. I will continue to work with planners and developers to promote a vibrant high street that meets the needs of all our residents.

I hope that helps in explaining why this is not a straightforward change of use.

Kind regards

Chris

Cllr Chris Best