Nice idea but slight problem lambchops: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/may/2 ... opstories3
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A SYMBOL FOR SYDENHAM
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Peak Hillbilly
- Posts: 23
- Joined: 20 May 2005 20:57
- Location: sydenham
I like the idea of a symbol being designed for Sydenham and can see that a dragon is a strong graphic shape that could be adapted easily, however I would have liked to see other options put forward in addition to the Greyhound. Both originate from historic pubs, but there were other historic elements in the area like the wells and the great north wood. One of the best things about this area is that we are close to central London but have all this green space - as a symbol I'd like to see something that represents that aspect of its history. Or maybe you can combine this into the design as well?
I think the idea of the green dragon being the symbol of Sydenham is a wonderful one.
It's an evocative symbol, but I like the fact that although it has a historical link to Sydenham, it doesn't have any obvious connotations. It means you can construct your own meaning for it - it can take on a significance for Sydenham today rather than being an imposition from the past.
Perhaps local schools could have a competition to write a mythology for the Sydenham dragon!
It's an evocative symbol, but I like the fact that although it has a historical link to Sydenham, it doesn't have any obvious connotations. It means you can construct your own meaning for it - it can take on a significance for Sydenham today rather than being an imposition from the past.
Perhaps local schools could have a competition to write a mythology for the Sydenham dragon!
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Peak Hillbilly
- Posts: 23
- Joined: 20 May 2005 20:57
- Location: sydenham
Well, I just voted for neither symbol (dragon, greyhound). I wouldn't have the faintest idea (had this Site not told me) of any significance of a green dragon whatsoever, let alone Sydenham.
A greyhound reminds me more of the Catford Greyhound Stadium as once was, so nowt to do with Sydenham. in my personal thinking.
To me it has always been the transmitter, cos once you can see it, you know you're nearly home *smiles*. However, given it's a mast with a mobile phone thingy attached with implications of electrical emissions and possible leukaemia implications albeit unproven, I've regrettably had to rule that out in my thinking.
So what are my suggestions? I don't know. What is Sydenham selling itself as for the future? <-- underscore future. (That's why a mythical/extinct dragon creature doesn't cut it for me.) What is Sydenham's slogan? A symbol would probably follow from that would it not? I could suggest examples of, say, The Peterborough Effect (rising graph), The Future is Bright (orange). So - what is Sydenham's unique selling point?
Sydenham - the home of...
Sydenham - the place for...
Sydenham -
A greyhound reminds me more of the Catford Greyhound Stadium as once was, so nowt to do with Sydenham. in my personal thinking.
To me it has always been the transmitter, cos once you can see it, you know you're nearly home *smiles*. However, given it's a mast with a mobile phone thingy attached with implications of electrical emissions and possible leukaemia implications albeit unproven, I've regrettably had to rule that out in my thinking.
So what are my suggestions? I don't know. What is Sydenham selling itself as for the future? <-- underscore future. (That's why a mythical/extinct dragon creature doesn't cut it for me.) What is Sydenham's slogan? A symbol would probably follow from that would it not? I could suggest examples of, say, The Peterborough Effect (rising graph), The Future is Bright (orange). So - what is Sydenham's unique selling point?
Sydenham - the home of...
Sydenham - the place for...
Sydenham -
Alternative: If any plan materialises for a "square" off the high street, why not put a fountain or wishing well in it that peeps can throw pennies in, so having a fountain or a wishing well as Sydenham's symbol?
I quite like this idea for a symbol. Both have a feel-good factor - fountains are pretty and wishing wells make dreams come true.
A wishing well would also "almost" ally to Wells Park, at a stretch... and might be easier/cheaper to construct/maintain and be less likely to be vandalised, plus won't fall foul of water shortages in the summer - but that's a different issue.
A tree juxtaposed to imply greenery for either symbol might not be beyond the talent of a graphic designer
I quite like this idea for a symbol. Both have a feel-good factor - fountains are pretty and wishing wells make dreams come true.
A wishing well would also "almost" ally to Wells Park, at a stretch... and might be easier/cheaper to construct/maintain and be less likely to be vandalised, plus won't fall foul of water shortages in the summer - but that's a different issue.
A tree juxtaposed to imply greenery for either symbol might not be beyond the talent of a graphic designer
Thinking about it, I'd plump for a fountain logo Because ... there's still a fountain near Jews Walk on Kirkdale (which was formerly the High Street I gather), a pond in Sydenham Wells Park is still fed from a fountain spring apparently and there used to be fountains if I'm not mistaken at the head of CP park.
A fountain could signify "a fountain of youth", which is essentially the same as regenerating, a la the project for Sydenham Road, don't you think?
As a fountain is a generic item, so not unique to Sydenham, it wouldn't matter if someone used the word "fountain". Meaning that, if a green dragon were used, anyone could come along and call themselves the "Green Dragon" pub, or pound shop for that matter, or Chinese Restaurant (sorry Lee). I'm thinking that one could copyright a logo, but not the words. By the converse, if a pub decided to call itself "The Fountain", it would have to have one on prominent display, so would still be a visual recognition.
The other point made about a greyhound was that the pub is/was when you thought you'd arrived in Sydenham "village". Fair point. Given that Sydenham Road is so named, there's a suggestion that if you keep going along it, you'll eventually get to Sydenham, whereas in fact you'd most likely end up at Sainsbury's or Crystal Palace
Short of renaming the road, where exactly would one put "Welcome to Sydenham" signs? The roundabout could have a little fountain.
Given we are talking about the regeneration of the high street, logically people would assume Sydenham is an area around it, so that should have the focus in my thinking. Wells Park is actually quite a distance from the high street, so even if the park people could be persuaded to display a green dragon (being its point of origin), there's nothing much there except the park and it would do more for the park cafe for sightseers than it would for Sydenham "village" Road.
Just my thinking. I'm not against a green dragon if that's what people want to represent Sydenham. Sorry if I seem to be upsetting an applecart, but I'm not actually if that's the symbol people want, since they'll all be sitting on it and weighing it down.
Because ... there's still a fountain near Jews Walk on Kirkdale (which was formerly the High Street I gather), a pond in Sydenham Wells Park is still fed from a fountain spring apparently and there used to be fountains if I'm not mistaken at the head of CP park. A fountain could signify "a fountain of youth", which is essentially the same as regenerating, a la the project for Sydenham Road, don't you think?
As a fountain is a generic item, so not unique to Sydenham, it wouldn't matter if someone used the word "fountain". Meaning that, if a green dragon were used, anyone could come along and call themselves the "Green Dragon" pub, or pound shop for that matter, or Chinese Restaurant (sorry Lee). I'm thinking that one could copyright a logo, but not the words. By the converse, if a pub decided to call itself "The Fountain", it would have to have one on prominent display, so would still be a visual recognition.
The other point made about a greyhound was that the pub is/was when you thought you'd arrived in Sydenham "village". Fair point. Given that Sydenham Road is so named, there's a suggestion that if you keep going along it, you'll eventually get to Sydenham, whereas in fact you'd most likely end up at Sainsbury's or Crystal Palace
Short of renaming the road, where exactly would one put "Welcome to Sydenham" signs? The roundabout could have a little fountain.Given we are talking about the regeneration of the high street, logically people would assume Sydenham is an area around it, so that should have the focus in my thinking. Wells Park is actually quite a distance from the high street, so even if the park people could be persuaded to display a green dragon (being its point of origin), there's nothing much there except the park and it would do more for the park cafe for sightseers than it would for Sydenham "village" Road.
Just my thinking. I'm not against a green dragon if that's what people want to represent Sydenham. Sorry if I seem to be upsetting an applecart, but I'm not actually if that's the symbol people want, since they'll all be sitting on it and weighing it down.
Actually, scratch my last post, since if they do redevelop the CP fountains, even though they are Sydenham's heritage, they'd do Sydenham no good at all unless a multi-storey car park is being planned re CP Park. By the same token, if they do develop the fountains then Sydenham Wells' springs will rather lose significance by comparison, being defunct and without grandeur. The same could be said of a dragon though, which could be seen as a poor representation of one of the prehistoric animals for which CP park is famous.
I'm now wondering if a symbol is actually a good idea at all at this time if there's nothing particularly to recommend Sydenham other than to avoid it, or bypass it. See quote below. Why not wait until at least a bit of regeneration has taken place?
Quote:
Sydenham Wells Park is just across the road with its quiet walkways and rolling grass; perfect for jogging or just chilling out. The Dulwich Wood House is lovely and local for a Sunday roast, Crystal Palace Park is a short walk too. Local convenience shops are close by on Wells Park Road, Kirkdale, and Sydenham Road, or drive to Bell Green for the huge Sainsburys. Both Crystal Palace and Dulwich Village, with smart retail and dining facilities are only 5/10 minutes away by car or bus. [end quote]
taken from here: http://www.hotproperty.co.uk/estate_age ... 209152.htm
*Waits to be flamed or banned*
I'm now wondering if a symbol is actually a good idea at all at this time if there's nothing particularly to recommend Sydenham other than to avoid it, or bypass it. See quote below. Why not wait until at least a bit of regeneration has taken place?
Quote:
Sydenham Wells Park is just across the road with its quiet walkways and rolling grass; perfect for jogging or just chilling out. The Dulwich Wood House is lovely and local for a Sunday roast, Crystal Palace Park is a short walk too. Local convenience shops are close by on Wells Park Road, Kirkdale, and Sydenham Road, or drive to Bell Green for the huge Sainsburys. Both Crystal Palace and Dulwich Village, with smart retail and dining facilities are only 5/10 minutes away by car or bus. [end quote]
taken from here: http://www.hotproperty.co.uk/estate_age ... 209152.htm
*Waits to be flamed or banned*
Just thinking about timing now. I've no idea what improvements to the high steet might eventually be agreed or how long they'd take or what they'd entail, but giving Sydenham a recognisable identity during the process would be like shooting oneself in the foot if there might be one-way traffic lights, contractors vans and muck and rubble involved in the process. I doubt TFL would be happy for Sydenham Road to be closed off. On that basis, pound shops would be the least of the worries wouldn't they?
For the record, I don't mind pound shops and their goods on the street is covered in another thread re licensing IIRC.
For the record, I don't mind pound shops and their goods on the street is covered in another thread re licensing IIRC.
Mosy, there are already 'welcome to Sydenham' signs at the top and bottom of the Sydenham Road among others.
You may not have noticed them as they are generic Lewisham Borough signs.
Were making what we have unique to us rather than another part of Lewisham at a time when there is money available to do it.
You may not have noticed them as they are generic Lewisham Borough signs.
Were making what we have unique to us rather than another part of Lewisham at a time when there is money available to do it.
Also, from memory, the CP transmitter was the first transmitter, and only Emley Moor in Yorkshire was and still is as high (others being shorter or relay station masts). I'll happily stand corrected on that. It follows however, that anything lower than the highest point "is lower" in perceptual terms (given our class inculcation). The transmitter was put there as being the highest point in South London IIRC.
My point being that Crystal Palace's Westow Hill (eateries and shops) will always be above Sydenham physically, but also perceptually (given the inculcation from our class system) so "travelling down to Sydenham" would have to be for good reason.
I'm still not sure what that reason might be as things are.
My point being that Crystal Palace's Westow Hill (eateries and shops) will always be above Sydenham physically, but also perceptually (given the inculcation from our class system) so "travelling down to Sydenham" would have to be for good reason.
I'm still not sure what that reason might be as things are.
leenewham wrote:Mosy, there are already 'welcome to Sydenham' signs at the top and bottom of the Sydenham Road among others.
You may not have noticed them as they are generic Lewisham Borough signs.
Were making what we have unique to us rather than another part of Lewisham at a time when there is money available to do it.
A green dragon from its Sydenham Wells history will always be unique to Sydenham. Whether now is a good time to spend available money on a symbol, I'm not sure, as mentioned.
I agree that the Lewisham "Welcome to Sydenham" sign is a bit weird (at the top end at least) since that's hardly the start of Sydenham. As you say, luckily, most folks will miss it anyway