A new Crystal Palace

RaymondHall · Post by **RaymondHall** » 11 Apr 2008 14:26

My name is Ray Hall.

I am an architect and advocate of the building of a new Crystal Palace in the family likeness of its forebears.

If anyone has any questions about the proposal, I would be pleased to try to answer them.

Do contact me on this website.

Ray

Richie · Post by **Richie** » 11 Apr 2008 14:58

Hi Ray,

Are the proposals available to view online anywhere, I would be very interested in taking a look, I think it is a great idea.

Steve Grindlay · Post by **Steve Grindlay** » 11 Apr 2008 19:43

It's good of you to offer to answer our questions, Ray; many of them have already been asked on this thread

Steve Grindlay · Post by **Steve Grindlay** » 11 Apr 2008 19:47

Richie, this is their website

outcast · Post by **outcast** » 11 Apr 2008 20:14

Wow Steve you is so helpful.

Juwlz · Post by **Juwlz** » 11 Apr 2008 21:18

I just looked at the 'rebuild Crystal Palace' site. These people are seriously against the planting of TREES!?!

I'm sorry, but that just sums it up for me. They are against the planting of trees! In a PARK!

If they must build it can't they find some kind of unloved industrial wasteland to build it instead?

Falkor · Post by **Falkor** » 11 Apr 2008 22:06

It's funny how people want a new palace when there's been hardly any interest in the historical one as shown by the lack of posts on the subject over in the Town Museum section. People always want stuff for the future, yet they take the past and present for granted. I could talk even more philosophical about this if I wanted to, but then I know I will make 5 new enemies for every opinion I share. But then, compared to all the friends I have, 5 more haters is no skin off my chest, so here goes: unless you can name all the courts in the Crystal Palace you have no right to vote for a new one!

marymck · Post by **marymck** » 12 Apr 2008 11:49

Is this for real?

I've just visited the website and the "our proposals" section is still "coming soon".

There is a video though. It features an animation of a cross between a building looking alarmingly like the Homebase at Downham. It's a hotel basically with some add ons such as a "Lagacy Archive" (I kid you not!). But wait, maybe I'm being dense. Maybe a Lagacy Archive is just something I've not heard of. I certainly don't know what is meant by "employment incubation and healthy living" ... sounds a bit creepy that, like something from The Matrix.

Seriously, though. This hasn't the scale or the vision or the sheer fun of the original Crystal Palace. Where are the fountains? Where are the gardens. It's just a rather sad and stunted copy of something from the past. A past when people had Vision.

I think I'm right in saying (I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm not) that the Crystal Palace at Sydenham/Penge never made a profit. If anything gets built now to replace it it will be all about profit. After a few years any altruistic elements will shrink away and we'll be left with a hotel with a few profit making franchises installed, shopping mall like.

Personally I love the park basically as it is. It just needs some TLC. I took my first steps in Crystal Palace Park and when I walk in it today, over 50 years later, I see families playing just as we did. Footballs, family cricket, picnics, kite flying, trees, grass, flowers ... that's what makes a local park. In our case we're lucky that we've also got dinosaurs, animals and beautiful, atmospheric ruins.

All it needs is a mini train, a maze and somewhere for a circus or a fun fair to pitch up and you've got heaven under a big sky.

Sylvester · Post by **Sylvester** » 12 Apr 2008 12:16

Perhaps one should ask Bromley Council - where are the fountains, where are the gardens? The park has always been a low priority and will continue to be without private funding and enterprise. That's the reality of the world we live in today, not some dream of yesteryear. Planting a grid of trees on the footprint of the old Palace will ensure nothing can ever be built there - and a waste of such an iconic site.

outcast · Post by **outcast** » 12 Apr 2008 13:38

I reckon Lagacy was a spelling error and we all make errors man like your error in saying a cross between and then only givin one option. I know I can't spell right but I get no plesure from picking others up on it.
You say you don't know what healthy livng is. Are you for real?.

marymck · Post by **marymck** » 12 Apr 2008 13:42

Sylvester, mine isn't a "dream of yesteryear". I was saying that the sort of things I enjoyed doing in CP Park with my family in the 50s & 60s are the same things I see families enjoying there today.

Those things (and trees!) aren't a waste of the site.

marymck · Post by **marymck** » 12 Apr 2008 13:53

OK Outcast I put my hands up. As is all too obvious, I am not a professional website designer or graphic artist - as I presume the person who did the artwork on Ray Hall's website is.

So, Outcast, what I intended to write was "a cross between Homebase at Downham and an anonymous office block better suited for one of John Prescott's new towns". Had I previewed my post I hope I would have picked up on my error. Thank you for pointing it out. I shan't point out your errors as I would be rude to do so. I am sure that you, like me, are a member of the public and not a graphic designer. We don't make a living from our spelling and grammar, but people who design websites do.

marymck · Post by **marymck** » 12 Apr 2008 13:56

Oh and again I apologise for not being more precise in my posting. Of course I know what "healthy living" is. I do not, however, know what the designer means by "employment incubation and healthy living". Perhaps someone would like to enlighten me?

Steve Grindlay · Post by **Steve Grindlay** » 12 Apr 2008 14:47

I have a question:

The Rebuild a new Crystal Palace website tells us that:

Funding has already been secured to rebuild a New Crystal Palace!
A major bank has promised to release the necessary funds as soon as this scheme is approved by Bromley Council.

£265mill. private investment, the contractors and tenants are in place

Finance is not my strong point, but are they really saying that a single bank, in the present financial climate, is prepared to hand over £265million the moment Bromley approves the scheme, with no strings attached? And if there are strings, what are they? Also, has the scheme been submitted to Bromley yet? If not, when will it be submitted?

nickrevel · Post by **nickrevel** » 12 Apr 2008 18:40

Ray, I haven't had a chance to meet you yet but I would like to express my support in your scheme and the spirit of openness around the exhibition. Following an exchange of emails with the LDA it has become clear to me that they discounted this very idea from the very beginning although they also aknowledge it was supported by many during the initial discussion stages; instead of exploring the idea and finding financial and planning support they just decided to undermine it; of course it is an outrage and I hope Bromley Council will either ask them to reconsider their plans for the top of the Park. LDA plan's without the greenhouses , with Ray's Crystal palace small scale replica with quality entertainment (picture house and not a multiplex for exemple) and maybe also an underground car park? A scheme that could satisfy most of us! I can't wait to walk at the top of the new Palace and enjoy its 360 degres views !!!
Thank you!
Nicolas

Falkor · Post by **Falkor** » 12 Apr 2008 19:14

I vote to have the Great North Wood grown back with everyone re-housed beyond the fringe!

DigitalFX · Post by **DigitalFX** » 13 Apr 2008 00:38

Hay,

I my experience in the past of managing some of London's top attractions, people don't want to read about history and what was, they want to experience it live. If this goes ahead then this will give millions the opportunity to get a glimpse of what it may have been like at Crystal Palace and will allow some of it's history to come back to life.

One thing I will say is having lived in this area all my life I had never visited the Crystal Palace Museum until the other day. I am sorry to say what a great disappointment it was to me. There was no sence of feeling or thought as to how the room looked. I was very shocked for such a big part of our history to be displayed in such a fashion. You don't need loads of money to create an atmosphere and one that will give a feeling of WOW you are going to remember this. ..Just my thought.

Gaz

Muddy Waters · Post by **Muddy Waters** » 13 Apr 2008 08:34

The whole Park is designated Metropolitan Open Land, confirmed by a Public Inquiry in January 2004. This is the equivalent of "urban Green Belt" and is the argument that a number of objectors are using against proposals in the Masterplan for housing on the site of the Caravan Club and elsewhere.

The idea currently being floated is for a commercial venture including an hotel and Leisure Centre on the top site amongst other money making activities, exhibitions, events, concerts. There would be a vociferous second long campaign using the previous arguments against this.

Ultimately Bromley Council, as the Planning Authority, is highly unlikely to approve the change of use of Metropolitan Open Land to " a site suitable for development".

Apologies - I am a bit of a planning anorak and I have hesitated to post further on the subject of the ideas for a "new Crystal Palace". However above is a quote from my posting on 5 Feb on the other thread about this subject and I haven't changed my opinion since the previous posting.

There is currently a Masterplan planning application being consulted upon by Bromley Council as part of the planning process.

It would seem to me to be a good idea, if there is as much support as campaigners insist there is for a "new Crytstal Palace", that Ray Hall puts in a planning application as soon as possible so that Bromley planners can consider it in parrallel to the Masterplan, both of which will have to stand up to the test of suitability for development on MOL.

The future of the park is at stake and needs to be resolved. Another long term campaign will not be good for Crystal Palace and the surrounding area.

Falkor · Post by **Falkor** » 13 Apr 2008 09:51

Gaz, in your opinion, how could the Crystal Palace Museum be improved to create this imaginary atmosphere you describe?

I just think people always want bigger and better things, not happy with what they already have, and will never be satisfied. That's life.

DigitalFX · Post by **DigitalFX** » 13 Apr 2008 11:32

Hi Falkor,

I do love your reply's.....

I didn't mention bigger at all as they only have that space available, but better yes.

On the day I visited is was really sunny and the large windows magnified the heat, it was so uncomfortable to walk around as it was stuffy and unpleasant, people were just sweating. The place smelt like an old stuffy library.

Here comes my experience.

I would block up all of the windows in the main room, using very cheap spot lights focus the light into displays which grabs your attention. I would also arrange the room so as to tell a story from the building of the Palace the the fire. Some items I was looking at I didn't know what or where they were in relation to the park. How much does is cost to make a room smell a little pleasant......

A tiny TV in the corner showed a video of the Fire, I am sure they could do better that that. It was like a portable looked very cheap and tacky.
There is so much more that could be done, and in my experience if people see some effort to create nice displays, then people are more likely to donate.

It's a great building good location, but come on it needs updating inside...

Gaz

Sydenham Town Forum

The Community Voice for London SE26 since 2004

A new Crystal Palace

A new Crystal Palace

Let's regenerate the park and build this replica!