Parking problems

[Parker1970]

To be honest, the CPZ does not even need to be an all out CPZ. When I lived in New Eltham near the train station, the CPZ was simply from 0900-1030 which completely screws the commuter parkers without having too much impact on residents and visitors. It also means the parking wardens only need to do one sweep of the roads in that hour and a half and can then move on to other areas needing more monitoring.

It's Not rocket science

[marymck]

I always find you very aggressive on this forum Marymk and v biased towards the older members of the community and the disabled. To help our town be a thriving vibrant place where people want to live and work we need it designed for everybody, young and old. I can tell you that the ONLY space ever available near me is the designated disabled bay which nobody ever parks in. So I'd dispute your emotionally manipulative argument about a CPZ discriminating against severely disabled members of the borough and ask you to think a little more kindly about the circumstances of all.

Dear Harrym I know we have had disagreements in the past, but I've moved on from that and it's frustrating how you can jump on me as being aggressive on my first non-history related post in ages! In fact, I'm suggesting that we DON'T have CPZs that favour the lucky few able to afford to both live in one and to afford a resident's permit. By their very nature CPZs are divisive. I do believe it's important to think about the elderly and disabled ... not at all the same thing btw - disability isn't just a function of old age. You can be young and fit or young and disabled; old and disabled or old and fit.

On the subject of vibrancy: Sydenham, FH and Kirkdale benefited from Portas Pilot investment and advice. One of the key pieces of Mary Portas's advice is on the need for plenty of parking to enable the vibrancy in our high streets.

But now, please let's stop being personal. If a CPZ happens it can only be as a result of a costly public consultation, because that's how Lewisham Council organize these things. 10% of people in the consultation area have to respond and more than 50% of those who respond have to be in favour. If such a consultation happens, I would urge that the impact on the less able is take into account and that residents on neighbouring streets are also consulted.

[Eagle]

Sorry Mary while welcoming you back to the Forum , on this subject we beg to differ.

We have a real problem with people from outside Sydenham parking near our stations and blocking spaces for business and locals.

A , say 11 to 1 pm ban would be a good idea as could easily be policed or a complete CPZ . One is needed NOW.

No one residents owns the kerb space outside their home and should not have an automatic right for free parking. I do accept handicapped persons have special needs.

[_HB]

Sydenham, FH and Kirkdale benefited from Portas Pilot investment and advice. One of the key pieces of Mary Portas's advice is on the need for plenty of parking to enable the vibrancy in our high streets.

Which is a position she has taken in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. The over provision of parking in and around town centre's is suffocating our High Streets.

[marymck]

Sorry Mary while welcoming you back to the Forum , on this subject we beg to differ.

We have a real problem with people from outside Sydenham parking near our stations and blocking spaces for business and locals.

A , say 11 to 1 pm ban would be a good idea as could easily be policed or a complete CPZ . One is needed NOW.

No one residents owns the kerb space outside their home and should not have an automatic right for free parking. I do accept handicapped persons have special needs.

Thanks for the welcome, Eagle! But I'm not staying long. I just wanted to make the point that we need to think about all members of our community, not just those lucky enough to be able bodied. If a CPZ consultation happens, then I'll voice my opinion as part of the consultation process - along with anyone else inclined to do so.

One interesting thing about the FH consultation, is that people couldn't agree on the times the CPZ restrictions should operate. For me, the biggest problem is the school run. It's dangerous chaos outside my house in the morning, caught as I am half way between two schools. So 11.00 to 13.00 hrs wouldn't help that issue. The only CPZ solution IMO would be a complete 24 hour CPZ across the country (or as a start, across the entire borough), every single street. I also believe LBL should make an exception to allow those displaying Blue Badges to be able to park in residents' bays without a permit - but I don't think they can legally do that.

As LBL will only approve housing developments with no (or totally inadequate) parking spaces the situation will only get worse and I fear that in time there won't be enough parking permits available even for those that can afford them.

[mosy]

My view is that there are more cars needing spaces, even from residents, than there are spaces especially with two-three storey flats, let alone the ones at Kirkdale roundabout which were built with no spaces, and not forgetting that businesses can rent more than one I gather - so where are all these CPZ resident spaces coming from exactly?

I took marymck's point that if you don't have a car then you're stymied for visitors if all spaces have already been rented out. What I don't like about resident parking is that they can be empty all day so "wasted" in terms of short term shoppers and visitors, sometimes necessary visitors.

The main problem to solve is 8am to 7pm train traffic parkers really. CPZs won't reduce the amount, just displace them.

I think I know the place near New Eltham that has the one-hour restriction and yes it works very well (I lived there for a few years). It is different though as it was done for aesthetics to prevent commuters "blighting the landscape" on an otherwise clear road as all residents around had their own dropped kerb parking anyway and parking didn't affect traffic management at all. The surrounding roads (near the College) got all the commuters... If one-hour restrictions were placed on a residential road, it baffles me as to how a ticket warden could identify legitimate parkers and/or guest visitors, or conversely a blanket ban would mean that residents had to shuffle their cars onto surrounding roads for the duration of the ban. Not exactly a perfect solution if you go into the detail.

The irony to me is that Girton Road is free isn't it? It's quicker to walk to Syd Station from there or catch a frequent bus down to Penge East rather than sit in traffic and seek a space closer as if it's some sort of computer game to "win".

On the other hand, the law gives no right to ownership of any part of a public road.

You've probably gathered that I think resident CPZ's are highly desirable for the select few who can get one and afford one and the bain of one's life for those outside the zone. It's a case of fighting your own corner methinks and if what Eagle says has any validity at all it is that money speaks louder to council ears, which if true skews the balance unjustifiably.

PS: marymck's post just in so it seems I agree with some and disagree with other points.

[Eagle]

Mary

Please do not go away we have all missed you , or I have .

Mosy , i do agree 1 hour a day has logistic difficulties. Better to have a complete CPZ .

I agree lots of new housing units but people moving to the area should appreciate streets built in The Victorian Era and NOT built for cars.
Having more parking spaces for each new house will not help as no more room on the roads.

[gillyjp]

If one-hour restrictions were placed on a residential road, it baffles me as to how a ticket warden could identify legitimate parkers and/or guest visitors, or conversely a blanket ban would mean that residents had to shuffle their cars onto surrounding roads for the duration of the ban. Not exactly a perfect solution if you go into the detail.

Surely those who buy a parking permit as a bona fide resident of the area would just display that permit in the windscreen of the car and presumably the ticket warden would see that and realise they are justified to park there even within the CPZ time zone. Not sure where the problem with this would be and we certainly wouldn't be expected to move our cars elsewhere for the hour or two in question??

[Eagle]

Gilly

There is not a problem , that is how CPZ's work.

[gillyjp]

Phew thank goodness for that - I was beginning to doubt my marbles

[coll]

I don't think the problem is just commuters. Several of the local business owners and their staff have chosen to make the area their personal parking lot - the Mercedes dealer, Enterprise cars, some wholesale flower company and Wellbeing among others.

There's also a situation where people are leaving their cars for weeks and months as a time.

I've also noticed on Bishopsthorpe, near the corner of Silverdale, some man seems to have moved his car towing/auto repair business there. Cars are towed there and left. There seems to be a growing climate of people feeling it is safe to leave cars without any worry that something will happen.

[mosy]

If one-hour restrictions were placed on a residential road, it baffles me as to how a ticket warden could identify legitimate parkers and/or guest visitors, or conversely a blanket ban would mean that residents had to shuffle their cars onto surrounding roads for the duration of the ban. Not exactly a perfect solution if you go into the detail.

Surely those who buy a parking permit as a bona fide resident of the area would just display that permit in the windscreen of the car and presumably the ticket warden would see that and realise they are justified to park there even within the CPZ time zone. Not sure where the problem with this would be and we certainly wouldn't be expected to move our cars elsewhere for the hour or two in question??

It depends on the scheme surely? If you'd bought a parking permit then no-one else would be entitled to park in it at any time anyway so what would be the point of a one-hour restriction?

If it were to be a only one-hour restriction, it might keep "invaders" out at that time, but what if you took your car out outside the one-hour restriction, then you'd have no g'teed space and no more right than anyone else who'd parked in it during your absence. I don't think the one-hour restriction sort is the same as renting a resident parking space that's always "yours" so comparing apples and oranges since they're mutually exclusive.

I'm speaking hypothetically about one-hour scheme. You might be speaking of a different more specific scheme?

[mosy]

coll, agree about businesses who use more than one space exacerbating the resident spaces issue. I'm sure they would argue however that they have equal right on a public road.

The problem near stations has existed everywhere forever. New Eltham was mentioned earlier which doesn't have a car park.. Eltham, by contrast, did have a fee-paying car park yet people sill parked anywhere outside they could. The biggest deterrent was that if a car was obviously a 9-hour one, it was likely to be vandalised. It was equally so despite cameras in the Eltham station car park I imagine the same applies to Girton Road. When I was mugged in it they said the cameras weren't working so it's really a disincentive to long-stay one's car even though free as obviously sitting duck.

I'm not pretending to know the answer needless to say.

[Eagle]

I would imagine the selfish station parkers are not 100% of the problem , but I would think in many streets the vast majority.

Venner Rd and Homecroft are nightmares during working hours

What gives people the right to leave their object all day in an area in which they have no connection. Shame.

[mosy]

Eagle, the right that it's a public road.

[Suzee]

Looks like cars are being moved from Tredown Road by truck...if anyone is missing a silver Corsa, one has just been deposited on Maitland Road.

Only the one car - the car parked in the 'Car Club' space.
It actually hasn't been all that painful - more notice would have been nice, but I was expecting to have to park miles away and in the end found a space just round the corner this morning

Was nice to come back to more space than usual to park in... However the double yellow from Byne into Tredown has been extended which I think is slightly unnecessary.... I thought the intention was just to put double yellows on the Homecroft Tredown corner? This has been done though it extends very little into Homecroft.

So a safer junction perhaps but even fewer places to park.

I agree about the shop workers, estate agents etc parking here... I recognise some looking for spaces regularly! I know it's a public road but it is a bit mean on residents to be pushed out by commuters and workers. I'd be happy to see CPZ.

[gillyjp]

If one-hour restrictions were placed on a residential road, it baffles me as to how a ticket warden could identify legitimate parkers and/or guest visitors, or conversely a blanket ban would mean that residents had to shuffle their cars onto surrounding roads for the duration of the ban. Not exactly a perfect solution if you go into the detail.

Surely those who buy a parking permit as a bona fide resident of the area would just display that permit in the windscreen of the car and presumably the ticket warden would see that and realise they are justified to park there even within the CPZ time zone. Not sure where the problem with this would be and we certainly wouldn't be expected to move our cars elsewhere for the hour or two in question??

It depends on the scheme surely? If you'd bought a parking permit then no-one else would be entitled to park in it at any time anyway so what would be the point of a one-hour restriction?

If it were to be a only one-hour restriction, it might keep "invaders" out at that time, but what if you took your car out outside the one-hour restriction, then you'd have no g'teed space and no more right than anyone else who'd parked in it during your absence. I don't think the one-hour restriction sort is the same as renting a resident parking space that's always "yours" so comparing apples and oranges since they're mutually exclusive.

I'm speaking hypothetically about one-hour scheme. You might be speaking of a different more specific scheme?

Eh - Me thinks we are getting our wires crossed here. The only CPZ I know of and probably the one that would apply in Sydenham is where as a resident you purchase a parking permit for £x on an annual basis. This allows you to park anywhere within a particular zone. Say for instance Zone J which has numerous parking spaces allocated to it around the area one resides. One doesn't buy the rights to just one allocated space. You get numerous spaces to park your car when one is free. If you then display this parking permit on your dashboard the ticket man see it and notes that you are allowed to park within that particular zone. You can go out in your car, come back and, if that original space has been taken by a bona fide permit holder, you park your car in one of the other spaces allocated under Zone J. Or whatever zone you ask for.

Am I just being a bit dozy here or is that the way others see the normal CPZ working?

[gillyjp]

At the risk of repeating myself from previous posts, permit holders only would be able to park within the permitted time – say for instance 12.00 – 2.00pm. If this was adopted in roads around stations – Peak Hill Gardens, Venner Road, Homecroft Rd, Silverdale, to name a few, it would cut the commuter parking at a stroke. There would then be no more driving around for half an hour to find somewhere to park near (ish) your home. Which is what happens now if I go out and return before 6.00pm.

We have the added problem of Pure Gym patrons (formerly LA Fitness) parking on the road where we live. If commuters were discouraged from parking (the 12.00-2.00pm residents parking only time zone would do this) then residents would not have to park miles from their home as there would be many more parking spaces freed up by preventing commuter parking.

[Suzee]

[/quote]

Eh - Me thinks we are getting our wires crossed here. The only CPZ I know of and probably the one that would apply in Sydenham is where as a resident you purchase a parking permit for £x on an annual basis. This allows you to park anywhere within a particular zone. Say for instance Zone J which has numerous parking spaces allocated to it around the area one resides. One doesn't buy the rights to just one allocated space. You get numerous spaces to park your car when one is free. If you then display this parking permit on your dashboard the ticket man see it and notes that you are allowed to park within that particular zone. You can go out in your car, come back and, if that original space has been taken by a bona fide permit holder, you park your car in one of the other spaces allocated under Zone J. Or whatever zone you ask for.

Am I just being a bit dozy here or is that the way others see the normal CPZ working?[/quote]

Yes that's definitely how they usually work!
It would certainly improve the current situation.

[robbieduncan]

Looks like cars are being moved from Tredown Road by truck...if anyone is missing a silver Corsa, one has just been deposited on Maitland Road.

Only the one car - the car parked in the 'Car Club' space.
It actually hasn't been all that painful - more notice would have been nice, but I was expecting to have to park miles away and in the end found a space just round the corner this morning

Was nice to come back to more space than usual to park in... However the double yellow from Byne into Tredown has been extended which I think is slightly unnecessary.... I thought the intention was just to put double yellows on the Homecroft Tredown corner? This has been done though it extends very little into Homecroft.

So a safer junction perhaps but even fewer places to park.

I agree about the shop workers, estate agents etc parking here... I recognise some looking for spaces regularly! I know it's a public road but it is a bit mean on residents to be pushed out by commuters and workers. I'd be happy to see CPZ.

Not sure why double yellows are needed ar any junction. It's already illegal to park at any junction (although I admit I did not find this specifically mentioned I believe highway code rule 242/RTA 1988 Section 22 covers this

Edit: rule 243 says "Do not"' Park within 10 meters of a junction but as this is Do Not rather than MUST NOT I don't believe this is a specific offense