mosy wrote:Does anyone know if a lift is planned to the upper floor? I imagine there would have to be one if not to discriminate against the several non-stair categories of people (though I'm no expert of course), assuming upper floor would be a public area.
The upper floor is designed to be accessible to customers who are able to use stairs, if that is what an occupier requires.
No lift is proposed, although the indicative layouts for the pub building show an accessible toilet on the ground floor, with additional toilets in the basement (accessible via stairs).
I believe from a trusted source that the Sainsbury's signage is going up and that the signage for the ATM is already up (even though the ATM hasn't yet been installed).
In fairness to Sainsbury's they have been quick to get this moving after finally starting the works. There are often a small army of people working in and around the site in orange jackets..
and opening on 17th March I believe - super quick turnaround.
I passed this afternoon and the fascia board is already in place (including opening hours) and there was activity inside aplenty - I could see what looked like fridges awaiting fitting so they're not hanging about it seems on route to meeting the 17th March opening date poster.
I also popped into Shirin for a couple of their good veggie delicatessen items and asked why it was so quiet in there. He said the whole of Sydenham is quiet at the moment trading-wise which seemingly other shopkeepers have also noticed lately. No known or obvious explanation as to why, he said. The Tesco a few doors down was virtually empty too and it's unusual for them not have a queue at the till.
@ rod taylor: I imagine it's because the supermarket wanted it and are probably seen as a solid long term rental bet by the lessor. It's also a lot simpler for the lessor to manage one lessee rather than up to a dozen individual leases.
As to why supermarkets want yet more "locals", that's probably due to the sea change against out of town hypermarkets which have lost favour with the buying public in recent years, seemingly to the extent that some big supermarket new builds including new access roads etc were never opened.
I don't think it's such a bad thing if the alternative is worse, i.e. remaining boarded up, as was The Two Halfs for a very long time until Tesco took it.
rod taylor wrote:
I'm with Eagle on this, it staggers me how many folks out there welcome this blandness. Well actually it doesn't, there's a kind of drabness of spirit almost unique to England.
Then the idiot who praises, with enthusiastic tone,
All centuries but this, and every country but his own;
Supermarkets need to expand and grow. Limits on land and within planning means that they struggle to expand out of town as there are restrictions on out of town supermarkets.
The growth area is on the high street, which is why there are less brands around than their used to be (remember Shepherds food?) as these were bought by the multiples. So the bigger high street brands are expanding back into the high street with local stores.
I doubt anyone is genuinely excited about it, other than the empty space behind the greyhound being filled by something that isn't a betting shop.
Like it or not, the future of high streets is about places to meet, greet, work and eat (cafes, restaurants etc), independent niche places (if the rents are low enough), food (higher end, lower end, the middle bit will struggle a bit) and businesses offering what you can't get on the internet. But they need to be clustered to succeed.
That's why some businesses are doing well in Crystal Palace and others, struggle, like some of the places along Dartmouth Road or the clothes shop in Penge that was helped by Mary Portas. It was an island with no supporting shops around it despite having a decent reputation. Shopping malls offer choice, that's why people flock there, thats why they are successful.
High streets can compete, but expect a bigger gap between more big brands and more independents.
This is a general rule:
If rents are low or there are empty shops, small independents move in, change happens and high streets regenerate organically.
The issue is that often the chains follow this. If rents go up, more chains move in, independents move out. Strong traders groups can offset this (see East Dulwich) or wise landlords often understand what makes a high street unique and manage things of the benefit of all (see Marylebone high street) and encourage independents.
Unfortunately, most high streets aren't managed.
I wish Sydenham had a BID group rather than our Portas thing. BIDS (Businesss Improvement District) are generally pretty good and inclusive and make a big difference.
I welcome Sainsbury's moving in - not just because it prevents an ongoing boarded up shop front in that visible area (gateway) for SE26, but also as it will employ people (hopefully local) who may not otherwise be employed. Also, it gives more choice for the consumer...... That said, ideally we would have the other unit or units (plus the pub) also filled soon.... I hope that Sainsbury's may be able to use some of their relationships to pull in someone for those vacant places. I would doubt that they would wish to be surrounded by vacant premises for a whole host of reasons.... (some aesthetic and business and some security)
There was activity inside the unit on the frontage today, the one under the Sainsbury facia next to Harbour 123 chippy. Looking inside, the unit looks surprisingly small judging from the front-to-back depth.
@ rod taylor. The only way to level the playing field that I can think of would be to reduce rents and rates. As a tax and council tax payer, I'm not sure I'd want to subsidise shopkeepers, nor do I want to pay over the odds for goods I could buy much cheaper online. I can't see landlords reducing an asking rate if they can get what they want either. If there is a magic wand, what would it do?
As a discussion point, how about this as a way of working out rates:
% of Turnover x m2 of business (shop floor and storage or kitchen but not community spaces or toilets if part of a community toilet scheme) divided by % of discount based on the type of business.
If it was all automated (with a review procedure based locally), it might encourage more community based businesses, community toilets and be workable and transparent. It may also help to encourage certain types of business to the high street.
How could we make Rates work better and encourage more community building business in high streets?
Would this help the likes of independent pubs and encourage more PFC's rathe than Sainsbury's/Tesco?
mosy wrote:There was activity inside the unit on the frontage today, the one under the Sainsbury facia next to Harbour 123 chippy.
That was almost certainly because Sainsbury's are using it as a site office while they fit out the larger unit.
mosy wrote:Looking inside, the unit looks surprisingly small judging from the front-to-back depth.
The Sainsbury's unit to the rear of the Greyhound is 445sqm; the vacant unit to the side is 275sqm (including the space now allocated for the Sainsbury's ATM). You can see the relative size of the units on the plan below:
I'm not sure what I'm meant to be looking at on that plan as it seems to be relevant only to the total space. The unit I looked into had a back wall of breeze blocks, so not a temporary partition I suspect. As to how the rest of the space might be divided up, who knows as the estate agent particulars merely state that it's big but can be divided into units.
mosy wrote:I'm not sure what I'm meant to be looking at on that plan as it seems to be relevant only to the total space. The unit I looked into had a back wall of breeze blocks, so not a temporary partition I suspect. As to how the rest of the space might be divided up, who knows as the estate agent particulars merely state that it's big but can be divided into units.
Where were you standing when you looked into the unit? I'm not clear what you mean by 'back wall'.
mosy wrote:I don't know how else to describe a back wall other than looking at it as if looking through a shop window. Does that help?
A fair response! But were you standing:
- On the pavement looking north (with you back to Kirkdale Bookshop);or
- On the paved area adjacent to the Greyhound looking east (with your back to the Greyhound)?
If the latter, whereabouts exactly were you standing? Was it:
- Near the road; or
- Further up, towards the entrance to the flats?
I've just passed again and I think what I can probably see is just the cut-out for the cash machine (on the Sydenham Road frontage, as I said earlier). If that is so, I'm still confused (I'm easily confused) as to why the facia is across the unit, as that implies that a unit in excess of just the ATM must have been carved out for Sainsbury, unless they've actually taken the whole thing. I don't like speculating so just saying what I can see.
mosy wrote:I've just passed again and I think what I can probably see is just the cut-out for the cash machine (on the Sydenham Road frontage, as I said earlier). If that is so, I'm still confused (I'm easily confused) as to why the facia is across the unit, as that implies that a unit in excess of just the ATM must have been carved out for Sainsbury, unless they've actually taken the whole thing. I don't like speculating so just saying what I can see.
The Singage above the ATM area does not go across the entire unit if I recall correctly. An image posted earlier in this thread:-
The signage seems to spread the width of the ATM and a bit more that i assume will be an access door to refill the ATM securely. To the left of the Sainsbuy signage is greyspace which is the empty retail unit (currently being used as a site office by Sainsbury)
