Oyster Cards mean reduced access to station
OK. Done deal.
I've just come back from taking some photos at the Station. BTW Platform 1 (to London Bridge) is closed atm. Round trip via East Croydon methinks.
I'll post an article tonight when I've got rid of the kids. A thought, instead of the usual petition which entails a lot of paper and standing around in the wet & wind - why don't we use the Prime Minister's ePetition site.
The trick is to word it such that is a government responsibility when in fact it is TfL. Perhaps something along the lines (sorry) of:
"We petition the Prime Minister to ensure that disabled access is not reduced at Railway Stations when Oyster Card machines are introduced on the East London Line as currently proposed."
But I think we need something tighter which can be supported up and down the line and not just Sydenham. WatchaFink?
Admin
I've just come back from taking some photos at the Station. BTW Platform 1 (to London Bridge) is closed atm. Round trip via East Croydon methinks.
I'll post an article tonight when I've got rid of the kids. A thought, instead of the usual petition which entails a lot of paper and standing around in the wet & wind - why don't we use the Prime Minister's ePetition site.
The trick is to word it such that is a government responsibility when in fact it is TfL. Perhaps something along the lines (sorry) of:
"We petition the Prime Minister to ensure that disabled access is not reduced at Railway Stations when Oyster Card machines are introduced on the East London Line as currently proposed."
But I think we need something tighter which can be supported up and down the line and not just Sydenham. WatchaFink?
Admin
Apologies for those for whom my link to the the Equality and Human Rights Commission website did not work. I will try again:
http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/y ... sport.aspx
There is an obligation on the part of a service provider to make the provision as equal as possible i.e. a taxi service is not adequate if it is feasible to provide a service on more equal terms. I think that rail companies have managed to use delaying tactics promising a programme for providing accessible platforms over a very long timescale for financial reasons. However where there is a station upgrade provided in any case, and an extension of service it is completely unacceptable to not provide equal access. TfL are behaving in a cynical and illegal way to avoid setting a precedent throughout their service.
I don't doubt that creating a petition is a worthwhile thing to be doing however as this scenario is being played out all over London and the country it may be useful to get in touch with people with experience of this who may have strategies in place for using the full force of legislation. There is a helpline for the Equality and Human Rights Commission : 0845 604 6610 which may be a start.
http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/y ... sport.aspx
There is an obligation on the part of a service provider to make the provision as equal as possible i.e. a taxi service is not adequate if it is feasible to provide a service on more equal terms. I think that rail companies have managed to use delaying tactics promising a programme for providing accessible platforms over a very long timescale for financial reasons. However where there is a station upgrade provided in any case, and an extension of service it is completely unacceptable to not provide equal access. TfL are behaving in a cynical and illegal way to avoid setting a precedent throughout their service.
I don't doubt that creating a petition is a worthwhile thing to be doing however as this scenario is being played out all over London and the country it may be useful to get in touch with people with experience of this who may have strategies in place for using the full force of legislation. There is a helpline for the Equality and Human Rights Commission : 0845 604 6610 which may be a start.
Thanks for that link- I will check it out.
Incidentally, I have just heard from Southern that they intend to shut the gate on the "down" platform at Forest Hill (the one leading down to the steps onto Perry Rise) but that they will open the gate during the evening rush hour with station staff checking tickets.
Incidentally, I have just heard from Southern that they intend to shut the gate on the "down" platform at Forest Hill (the one leading down to the steps onto Perry Rise) but that they will open the gate during the evening rush hour with station staff checking tickets.
southern appear to be confusing access to the station and the availability of Oyster on their routes - these issues aren't nessecarily the same.
if Southern won't install a barrier at this entrance, why can't they add a stand-alone oyster reader on the platform and keep the gate open - like they have for years at new cross gate?
There's no barrier at new cross gate either, but "pay as you go" customers always touch in - because they have to. If they don't, they know they'll get stung for the full cash far once they try to get through the barriers at the other end of their journey.
either that, or someone needs to contact the equalities commission about this issue..it's one thing for a station not to be accessable for the disabled for historical reasons - it's quite another for a train company to actively TAKE away disabled access because of penny pinching.
if Southern won't install a barrier at this entrance, why can't they add a stand-alone oyster reader on the platform and keep the gate open - like they have for years at new cross gate?
There's no barrier at new cross gate either, but "pay as you go" customers always touch in - because they have to. If they don't, they know they'll get stung for the full cash far once they try to get through the barriers at the other end of their journey.
either that, or someone needs to contact the equalities commission about this issue..it's one thing for a station not to be accessable for the disabled for historical reasons - it's quite another for a train company to actively TAKE away disabled access because of penny pinching.
actual land ownership
Finally.. after some arm twisting, I've managed to get hold of a picture that shows the land ownership around the station, including those parts leased to Southern. Green = network rail land, red = network rail land leased to southern.
[ apologies about the size, any smaller and the detail disappears ! ]
So, imo, there are actually quite a few options if TFL is serious about providing full access.
[ apologies about the size, any smaller and the detail disappears ! ]
So, imo, there are actually quite a few options if TFL is serious about providing full access.
Well done DaveT for finding this map - there is absolutely no reason why Southern could not put a gate almost anywhere along the fence on the up platform where it borders the roadway. Although there are some trees, these could be avoided. With the news from Forest Hill that their gate is going to be open during the evening rush hour from 3-8pm, why is Sydenham the poor relation? Also, Dickp's point about the installation of a single Oyster reader would solve this problem entirely. Before New Cross Gate closed (for the construction of the East London Line) they had an unstaffed gate with an Oyster reader for people who wanted to travel on the old East London Line. Why can't Sydenham have the same facility?
About living next to the station
Some of the residents of Peak Hill Gardens did not CHOOSE to live by the station. Yes, we were given properties by the council close to the station, but at the time platform 1 was on the other side of the main road. One year after moving in the platform was moved to Peak Hill Gardens although the gate was not in use. It has only been a relatively short time that the gate has been open for disabled access etc., which is good, although that has lead to parking problems for the residents as commuters are parking there from around 6 am. The thing about people milling around smoking and generally hanging around until late in the evening is that they use the alley in Peak Hill Gardens as a toilet. Not only is the alley used as a toilet, there have been occasions when commuters have relieved themselves through the railings which isn't a pretty sight if you happen to be walking by, or for residents who might be at their sink washing up or emptying bins. So, when all the plans are going through for oyster card barriers/platform improvements etc. perhaps some sort of screening/fencing can be erected so that there is a bit more privacy for the residents, as at the moment it is like living in a goldfish bowl!lambchops wrote:it wouldn't be too hard to erect barriers across the end of the platform just as you turn left after entering the gate. the trains stop a bit further up from this point.
does anyone know what's happening? it's no good pissing and moaning about what might happen, rather than what's going to happen.
about living next to the station...why choose to live near a station if it's going to annoy you?
i agree on the smokers, though. dropping butts on the ground is the acts or ignorant and dirty pricks.
Tasha - I'd be very much in favour of erecting a solid fence/wall or some other protection along the back of the platform to divide Spring Hill residents from the station.
When TFL take over the running of the station at the end of the year, their first aim is to widen the platform at this side of the station. This would be an ideal time to contruct some sort of screening.
When TFL take over the running of the station at the end of the year, their first aim is to widen the platform at this side of the station. This would be an ideal time to contruct some sort of screening.
It would be brilliant if a solid fence or wall could be erected. After living here for over 25 years it would be so nice not to have to witness some of the things that happen on the station.nasaroc wrote:Tasha - I'd be very much in favour of erecting a solid fence/wall or some other protection along the back of the platform to divide Spring Hill residents from the station.
When TFL take over the running of the station at the end of the year, their first aim is to widen the platform at this side of the station. This would be an ideal time to contruct some sort of screening.
We had a good discussion about this issue when we met in the Woodman the other night. Here are some ways in which we intend to get a campaign going:
1. E mailing our representatives
If you feel strongly about this issue please write to Ken Livingstone and our GLA representative Len Duvall.
Ken Livingstone and Len Duvall's details are:
The Public Liaison Unit (PLU) deals with all enquiries and correspondence on behalf of the Mayor and any enquiry requiring a response must be made in writing.
By email: mayor@london.gov.uk
Postal Address:
Ken Livingstone
Mayor of London
Greater London Authority
City Hall
The Queen's Walk
More London
London SE1 2AA
Telephone: 020 7983 4100
Len Duvall
GLA
City Hall
The Queen's Walk
London SE1 2AA
Telephone: 020 7983 4517
Email: len.duvall@london.gov.uk
2. Challenge this issue legally
A local campaigner who is registered disabled has agreed to see if she can challenge this issue legallly under the Access for All legislation. I will let you know what she manages to find out.
3. A high-level meeting with Southern
I am arranging a meeting with Southern which will be attended by local councillors, a representative from Len Duvall's office, Lamb Chops has kindly agreed to attend also.
4. Press Campaign
Once we get things underway, we can contact the press (local newspapers like the News Shopper are always on the lookout for stories like these). DickP has already written an excellent press release.
5. Leaflet the station
We should wait to see what develops over the next few weeks but obviously a leaflet handed out at the Spring Hill gate would be very effective in raising commuter's attention to this issue.
Can anybody think of any thing else we might do?
1. E mailing our representatives
If you feel strongly about this issue please write to Ken Livingstone and our GLA representative Len Duvall.
Ken Livingstone and Len Duvall's details are:
The Public Liaison Unit (PLU) deals with all enquiries and correspondence on behalf of the Mayor and any enquiry requiring a response must be made in writing.
By email: mayor@london.gov.uk
Postal Address:
Ken Livingstone
Mayor of London
Greater London Authority
City Hall
The Queen's Walk
More London
London SE1 2AA
Telephone: 020 7983 4100
Len Duvall
GLA
City Hall
The Queen's Walk
London SE1 2AA
Telephone: 020 7983 4517
Email: len.duvall@london.gov.uk
2. Challenge this issue legally
A local campaigner who is registered disabled has agreed to see if she can challenge this issue legallly under the Access for All legislation. I will let you know what she manages to find out.
3. A high-level meeting with Southern
I am arranging a meeting with Southern which will be attended by local councillors, a representative from Len Duvall's office, Lamb Chops has kindly agreed to attend also.
4. Press Campaign
Once we get things underway, we can contact the press (local newspapers like the News Shopper are always on the lookout for stories like these). DickP has already written an excellent press release.
5. Leaflet the station
We should wait to see what develops over the next few weeks but obviously a leaflet handed out at the Spring Hill gate would be very effective in raising commuter's attention to this issue.
Can anybody think of any thing else we might do?
-
roundasapound
- Posts: 34
- Joined: 2 May 2008 05:46
- Location: The Thorpes, SE26
I don't use the gate at platform 1 because I live on the other side so always walk over the bridge, however, I would be pretty peeved off if I lived on the other side and had to walk around.
Not withstanding the fact that I've had to help many a person with a buggy cross the other side of the bridge before and a blind guy walk over the bridge a few times.
Sydenham station is one of the few stations I know of with street level access on both sides. In this day and age, most stations should be this way and it's blatantly excluding the most vunerable groups by closing this gate e.g elderly, disabled, pushchair users, etc.
I do feel for the people that live close by to Platform 1, but people also park on Silverdale and the Thorpes to use the station and to go shopping so those residents aren't the only ones that suffer.
Regarding litter, station staff seem to spend alot of time clearing away butts and litter outside the main station entrance, so they should get their butts over the platform and clear the butts at the entrance of platform 1
Closing the entrance to platform 1 will mean an awful lot of congestion via platform 2 coming both in and out of the station.
Fare evasion - well if there are oyster readers then it makes no sense to evade the fare or you'll pay full whack. Also most people that use platform 1 go to London Bridge and fare evasion is not an option in any case due to ticket barriers.
We're paying customers here, paying extortionate fares, southern are treating us as though we're having this service for free.
Not withstanding the fact that I've had to help many a person with a buggy cross the other side of the bridge before and a blind guy walk over the bridge a few times.
Sydenham station is one of the few stations I know of with street level access on both sides. In this day and age, most stations should be this way and it's blatantly excluding the most vunerable groups by closing this gate e.g elderly, disabled, pushchair users, etc.
I do feel for the people that live close by to Platform 1, but people also park on Silverdale and the Thorpes to use the station and to go shopping so those residents aren't the only ones that suffer.
Regarding litter, station staff seem to spend alot of time clearing away butts and litter outside the main station entrance, so they should get their butts over the platform and clear the butts at the entrance of platform 1
Closing the entrance to platform 1 will mean an awful lot of congestion via platform 2 coming both in and out of the station.
Fare evasion - well if there are oyster readers then it makes no sense to evade the fare or you'll pay full whack. Also most people that use platform 1 go to London Bridge and fare evasion is not an option in any case due to ticket barriers.
We're paying customers here, paying extortionate fares, southern are treating us as though we're having this service for free.