Starting-up a Barbers business in Sydenham

[harmys]

Hello, my name's Millicent, Milli for short. Me and my partner David are looking to relocate to the Sydenham area to be closer to David's dad and because we're fed-up of our cramped flat in Hackney. We currently rent a small shop where we run our Barbers business from but obviously we'll be giving that up along with the flat. We wanted to try and find somewhere in Sydenham where we could setup shop, hopefully the hairdressing market isn't already too saturated. We haven't really had chance to have a proper look around yet and it's obviously important we weigh up all our options before we move. From the little we've seen, it looks like we'd be happy living there its just whether a Barbers business is viable for a source of income. Looking for a new career wasn't really on the agenda.

[robbieduncan]

Whilst I wish you good luck I'd recommend walking the high street first. Without thinking hard I can think of 2 barbers and at least 3 hair dressers in one short stretch of road. The barbers I use will scissor cut my hair (more expensive than clippers) for less than £15. I'd say margins are tight and competition fierce.

To get a decent customer base you'll need to offer something to attract customer with an existing barber. Lower prices, high-end/trendy shop or perhaps location. The first seems like a looser: you won't make enough to survive as its you can't make up the margin on volume. The middle option might work. But the start up costs am be high. That location option seems key. Get away from the dense competition (and high rents) of the high street. Maybe something in lower Sydenham towards Bell Green? Lots of new flats. Potential long term upside from regeneration via the Backerloo line and perhaps less competition

Good luck! Let us know how things pan out

[monkeyarms]

We moved from a flat in Brixton to a house in Sydenham last October. Very happy here.

If you're looking to open a gents hairdressers, I think you really need to scope out the competition and think long and hard about location. On the High Street, the barbershop called Smart Chaps seems to be top dog. It's always busy, looks very appealing, and it never occurred to me to go anywhere else when I first arrived here.

There's another one on the opposite side of the road, just slightly further down, that always seems a bit overshadowed by Smart Chaps. It must be moderately successful otherwise it wouldn't be there, but it only ever seems to have one customer at a time (never see anyone waiting) and is often empty. I think it'd be foolish to open a barber's anywhere around that part of Sydenham.

Further down towards Lower Sydenham would be a better bet I would say; less competition.

Might be a clever move to open a barbers as close as possible to Beer Rebellion (craft beer bar, younger clientele, probably Sydenham's 'trendiest' drinking hole). There's a tattooists not too far from there as well.

[stuart]

Whereabouts in Hackney is your shop? I ask because Sydenham has excellent direct connections with Dalston via the Overground - about 30 mins. I find it faster to go there for the library than any other library apart from Forest Hill. You may find it easier to continue operating your business there than locate into a fairly competitive market here.

Stuart

[Parker1970]

Whereabouts in Hackney is your shop? I ask because Sydenham has excellent direct connections with Dalston via the Overground - about 30 mins. I find it faster to go there for the library than any other library apart from Forest Hill. You may find it easier to continue operating your business there than locate into a fairly competitive market here.

Stuart

I agree with Stuart here. I moved here from Tower Hamlets just over a year ago and the one thing that Tower Hamlets/Hackney does lack is traditional barber shops. There are plenty that will do buzz cuts and shave shapes into the back of your head (if you catch my drift) but decent traditional barbers are harder to find. The Overground line serves quite a few stations not too far from the Hackney area.

Sydenham does have two barbers on the high street (midway), though both fairly close to each other (Smart Chaps & Charisma, opposite sides of the street but very close to each other) so if you were going to set up on the high street, the bottom end by Beer Rebellion/The Dolphin (as noted above) would likely be a better place for you, not just as it is away from the other two but the clientele you could attract from the existing shops down at that end (Pubs, Tattoo parlour, Lidl lol).

The Bell Green area does have a barbers I believe so Beer Rebellion area would at least put you equidistant from the current competition.

There is of course one other possibility, the top end of the high street near the station (Kirkdale), this will at least provide footfall from the station/bus stops as well as clientele from the pubs (hopefully the greyhound will open soon).

You probably need to walk the area or at least have a travel around Google Streetview online.

[leenewham]

There are a fair amount of barbers/places that cut mens hair on the high street. I've have had bad experiences in the main two, including a cut and bloodied neck when the guy cutting my hair spent all the time talking to someone else in another language, totally ignoring me (he wasn't even looking as he cut away) resulting in a bad cut and my blood stained neckline (I didn't notice how bad it was until I got home and he didn't even say sorry!). Loud music put me off the other barbers.

So I used to go elsewhere instead of Sydenham to get my hair cut until I discovered Johns who are BY FAR the best barbers in Sydenham. Friendly, good value, friendly, they have been there forever and always give a good cut and make you feel welcome.

Is there room for another barbers? Not if it's the same as the other 3. If it's more inclined to make people feel special and pampered, then maybe and I agree that being near the beer rebellion/Dolphin might be a good idea. But I'd take Stuarts advice and commute 30 minutes to your existing business. I just don't think Sydenham is the right place for such a place.

I worked with a high end barbers/grooming place years ago called The Refinery and saw all their business plans. It was well worked out and it's a success, and they are great at what they do, but they put a lot of work into getting their presentation, offer and positioning just right for their market (Pierce Brosnan got his hair cut there when he was James Bond!). I'nm not saying Sydenham should have such an upmarket business, I'm saying do your research, look at who uses the high street, do they care about heir hair, spend some time here, talk to people, look at the demographics, are the school intakes changing, talk with the local estate agents to find out who is moving to the area, visit parts of the high street at different times of the day, what's the footfall like etc. I'm constantly amazed at how few small businesses do virtually no research on where they are starting up!

[JRobinson]

I live in Sydenham and work in Hackney. I almost always go to the barbers at the south end of Mare St, between the little Sainsbury, and the canal - can't remember the name, but it's next to The Last Tuesday Society, and they do a hair cut for £9, and usually wash hair as well for that price. A hair cut, hair wash, wet shave, and hot towel, came in at £18.

previously I've been to the main one on Sydenham High St once, but wasn't that impressed, and a little place in Forest Hill twice - last shop on the left going away from the station along the south circular towards Horniman Museum.

in Hackney I'd tried a few different places, D'Cuts on the corner of Well St, and another place further along Well St which might now have closed, also the place on Broadway Market is expensive, and there's a very 'contempory' place on Hackney Road, where eveyone styling has designer beards, and undercuts. just walkable, south of our office is an old style proper barber on Cambridge Heath Road, opposite what used to be the Town Hall - well priced at £9 but a bit too far for me.

I agree with others, if your current business works, then move house but continue to commute.

If I avoid zone 1, and get off the overground at Whitechapel, and walk to Cambridge Heath road, and then get a 106 or 254 bus, the commute is around 1hr 15 minutes. it's a 9.5 mile cycle which for me takes roughly an hour - going via Peckham, and over Tower Bridge.

also depends where in Hackney...

[monkeyarms]

I'm perfectly happy with the haircuts I've had at Smart Chaps, both by the girl that works there. But at the risk of sending this thread slightly away from the original request, has anyone ever tried the mens hairdressers on Kent House Rd? Can't remember what it's called, but I drive past it frequently and it looks like they've at least put some effort into the presentation of the place...?

[leenewham]

Yep, I did. Mostly because it looked like a proper barbers when I went past and it looked inviting.

It was ok, not a great haircut and I didn't go back. The issue with lots of these places is that the staff change a lot. That's why I like Johns in Lower Sydenham.

[Mayowthorpe]

Firstly, welcome to the area. Sydenham is a great place to live. We like to keep it a secret!

There are a number of good points to come out of this thread so far.

Clearly, your point of difference will be key. Take a quick walk of the high street and see what is on offer (price point etc). There is probably room for a more high-end hairdresser, and the high street is crying out for more good and useful services for locals (no more betting shops etc). In terms of saturation, I think Sydenham has a large catchment area – based on comments from this board (as well as my own experience), many people might be currently getting their hair cut near work, in Forest Hill/ED or other surrounding areas. If you can offer something to keep people closer to home, I think there is definitely room to expand the existing base without taking too much away from the current establishments. Getting your name out there post-launch will be key.

In terms of location, I wouldn't go too far down towards Lower Sydenham, as you might not get noticed (less footfall). The Beer Rebellion location is a good point, as it represents “new and trendy” within the area. I would also look at the new space around the Greyhound (good footfall) as well as Kirkdale. 161 Wine Bar and Hibagon are really good establishments in Kirkdale, and have done very well in a short space of time.

From a personal perspective, a quality cut is key, however friendly service is also important. I would pay a bit extra for a reliable and friendly hairdresser, who could also offer products at a competitive price.

Another thing to consider is the kids market. There are a lot of families in the area, and a good kids offering could buy in the whole family.

Good luck with your venture; its nice to see the area attracting more new businesses.

[mikej]

monkeyarms commented

at the risk of sending this thread slightly away from the original request, has anyone ever tried the mens hairdressers on Kent House Rd? Can't remember what it's called, but I drive past it frequently and it looks like they've at least put some effort into the presentation of the place...?

Yes, I've used this barber's since it opened. It's called Ozzie's and it is very good.
They charge £11 for a gent's haircut with reductions for pensioners. Ozzie is very friendly and a good practitioner.

My feeling about Milli's original point is that there is a danger of saturation in barber shops in the area. For instance, in nearby Penge there are two within a few meters of each other opposite Homebase. One seems to attract a decent trade, the other seems always empty. So I wouldn't risk it Milli.

[Robin Orton]

I would also look at [...] Kirkdale. 161 Wine Bar and Hibagon are really good establishments in Kirkdale, and have done very well in a short space of time.

There is George's, on the corner of Kirkdale and Sydenham Park Road, which I have occasionally used. Not upmarket, but friendly and competent.

[mosy]

Just for info, there's also a decent barber just up from Sydenham Station on Kirkdale called George's.

Just a thought: You know that women's hairdressers do home visits, is that possible for men's haircuts? That might be a worthwhile after hours income idea if moving to live in Sydenham but you don't set up shop here. As Sydenham is a mixture of all age groups (and maybe you offer discounts for kids and oldies), I imagine there could be a demand if you got your name "out there".

In principle, I have to agree with others - know your market and assess competition.

[SteveG85]

I agree with Mayowthorpe. There have been several successful businesses opening on Kirkdale, near the Dartmouth Road junction recently so that would be a good bet as rents are much lower than Sydenham High Street which would reduce your risk. It's a busy road for traffic so you'll get spotted and footfall is high too, which I expect contributed to 161 and Hibagon's success

[harmys]

Wow! Thanks ever so much for all the suggestions, didn't expect such a great response. I've been looking at the connections between Sydenham and where we live now. I must admit, it does seem quite viable to keep our current shop and just do the commute each day. I'm not sure I'd like to do it long-term but definitely in the interim whilst we establish ourselves in Sydenham. As mosy said, doing home visits may also be a possibility and I can do both women's and men's hair. I'd just want to make sure we had a home with enough space, in a good location so that its comfortable and practical for the clients. We've been having a chat about maybe my husband continuing to work at the shop whilst I try to build-up clients from home. We could then just employ another set of hands at the shop, even if just part-time.

[harmys]

There's a lot to think about for sure and we definitely need to scope out the competition before we completely relocate our business to Sydenham. Like a few people have pointed out, if we're going to stand-out from the crowd then we need to offer something unique and we need to be competitive on our prices. Of course, finding a good location is key and the rent would need to be reasonable enough to sustain a business. We'd also want a shop that was big enough for what we want. We will have a bit of cash spare to do-up any potential new shop so its just about spending the money in the right places.

[monkeyarms]

WowAs mosy said, doing home visits may also be a possibility and I can do both women's and men's hair. I'd just want to make sure we had a home with enough space, in a good location so that its comfortable and practical for the clients. We've been having a chat about maybe my husband continuing to work at the shop whilst I try to build-up clients from home.

If you can do women's hair - and home visits - then I would say you should definitely get yourself onto the Penge Tourist Board Facebook group. It is very active, and I would say the majority of the threads and activity on it are female-led (at the risk of generalising).

You would definitely be able to pick up some home-visit business that way; I am certain there'd be the demand for it. (Particularly if you made yourself an appealing-looking tmblr or wordpress page for your services)

In fact, I'd say there's much more of a gap in the Sydenham market for a stylish-looking women's boutique hairdressers than there is a men's.

[mosy]

On home visits, as well as monkeyarms' really useful suggestions about advertising, I think that the council and Age UK charity has a list of "approved home visit" people who are considered trustworthy to be "let in" to people's homes. Unfortunately, it is something I've only heard about so I cannot expand on that.

Thinking back, if I'm not mistaken, a hairdresser/barber set up shop on Sydenham Road frontage near the Greyhound a couple or five maybe years ago (I forget but near where the chippy is now), presumably costing £lots to fit out and it died quickly, less than a year I think though my memory is vague. I don't know why being a prime location near station footfall. I guess not sufficiently attractive USP coupled with high overheads.

[leenewham]

Have a look on yell.com. There are around 20 places to get hair cut in Sydenham including mobile stylists. Many more if you include Penge etc.

As ever, if you are good, you will do well. It's all about trust.

Do your research, go with your head and gut. A few barbers have closed in Sydenham, I remember the one that Mosy mentioned, but I don't remember any real reason to go there over any of the others.

There may be different reasons why this is the case including leases etc. Some have changed hands. Calabash of Culture was a higher end spa/hairdressers/nail bar for a while but didn't make it for whatever reason.

Good luck.

[harmys]

Again some great advice being given. I have had a look on the Yell pages and there does seem a lot of hairdressers and barbers in Sydenham. Our son is very good with computers and works in advertising so I'm sure we'd have no problem getting our name about. It looks like with home visits there are some good ways to pick up clients so that does sound like a path worth perusing. Running a barbers there however doesn't sound like it would be a walk in the park and if others have come and gone quite quickly then that has to tell you something.