Parking problems

[simon]

When we last had a consultation about CPZ's a few years ago, I was surveyed at Knighton Park Road and said I didn't want one. The consultation was done on a street by street basis and I don't think any were introduced. Today I would still be against a CPZ for my street but I would obviously have no objection to others, although that may push cars on to my street.

[alywin]

Why is it "outrageously selfish" to want to park near my house?

It's not, not at all. Anyone who's done a major Sainsbury's run will understand the frustration of being unable to unload anywhere near their house. And it was the time, 20-odd years ago, when I had to park a way down the street that my own car was stolen, never to be found - or replaced, for that matter. On the other hand, none of us actually have any right to park anywhere on the road at all - it's just tolerated, like children riding on the pavement is tolerated. But let's not go there ..

I have seen certain estate agents drive less than 1/2 mile to visit a property. Sheer laziness. Surely they only need one pool car for the office rather than every person having a company car and driving to work!

Sometimes the short journeys are done by car to save time, not out of laziness (and sometimes they *are*. I've had quite a bit to do with estate agents in recent months, and I must admit that one did admit to me that she could have walked from the office but didn't). But the idea of only having one pool car would quickly come a cropper on busy days such as Saturdays, when it's quite likely that virtually everyone in the office will be out conducting viewings. And, of course, all those cars buzzing around locally with Pedders, Property World or F..... on them are all good publicity.

[_HB]

Its an interesting point re estate agents. But why should the public pay the negative externalities of their business? Foxtons etc should either be made to purchase land to park their cars or pay a fee to the LA to park them on public land.

[JRobinson]

Tim - of course you wouldn't mind a CPZ - you don't have a car!
(as far as I know, you've got a bicycle, and a zip car membership - correct me if I'm wrong)

yes CPZs would stop commuters from parking, however residents would have to pay to have a permit, to display in their window, just to let them park where they are currently parking for free. Most residents object to CPZ based on being forced to pay extra.
of course the CPZ needs to be policed, and permits issued etc, which all takes up resource which must be funded somehow.
single yellows - no parking M-F 11.30 - 13.30 except residents say, with a nominal fee for a residents permit, would in my opinion work a lot better.
Maybe the car park a few minutes away should be advertised more obviously - it's not obvious unless you know it's there.
or maybe have some commuter parking in the two huge Bell Green car parks - anyone with a travel card can use buses for free - seems like a sensible option to me...

[Eagle]

I agree Robinson , the best restriction is a two hour penalty time Monday to Friday. The wardens would only have to visit once a day and could then go to other streets with different penalty times.

Something needs to be done in Sydenham. Most roads , nearish to Stations are blocked all day.

[Tim Lund]

Tim - of course you wouldn't mind a CPZ - you don't have a car!
(as far as I know, you've got a bicycle, and a zip car membership - correct me if I'm wrong)

yes CPZs would stop commuters from parking, however residents would have to pay to have a permit, to display in their window, just to let them park where they are currently parking for free. Most residents object to CPZ based on being forced to pay extra.
of course the CPZ needs to be policed, and permits issued etc, which all takes up resource which must be funded somehow.
single yellows - no parking M-F 11.30 - 13.30 except residents say, with a nominal fee for a residents permit, would in my opinion work a lot better.

The immediate beneficiaries from a CPZ are car owning residents, and since, as you so rightly say, a CPZ costs, then it's entirely reasonable that they should be expected to pay for it. In fact, from the Lewisham web site says, it appears Councils are obliged to cover their costs

Government guidance (Operational Guidance to Local Authorities: Parking Policy and Enforcement - Traffic Management Act 2004) requires all Councils to ensure that their Parking Control Accounts are self-financing.

The revenue is raised from a combination of:

• income received through penalty charge notices
• permit sales
• and pay and display income.

and at £120 a year, I'm not sure the costs of permits are just nominal.

Lewisham also says

Lewisham does make money from parking, but this is not the primary aim of CPZs.

Controlled parking zones serve a traffic management purpose. Areas where residents request parking controls are very often around stations. They find that parking during the day in roads close to stations becomes virtually impossible because all the space is taken up by commuters.

If we can limit end destination parking we can start to influence the mode of transport people choose. We would like commuters to travel their entire journey on public transport rather than cause congestion on the roads and clog up our residential streets by commuting to stations within Lewisham.

which I think is indisputable, but as the local motorists' friend, I'd suggest the costs of permits should be lower, if it made a difference to residents' acceptance of CPZs. OTOH, if permits were free, so the costs were borne as much by non car owners such as myself, I'd think that was rather unfair.

As it is, I'm less exercised by this than I might be, but I still have a view on the matter, given that I support all those policy reasons given by Lewisham, and not just for the immediate traffic management reasons, but also

• Fewer cars = less pollution
• More walking & cycling = a healthier population and more sociability.

On the last of these, last weekend, walking home from my allotment with a handful of spare chillies, I twice met friends who were happy to accept them. That's the sort of interaction you cut yourself off from in a car.

[Eagle]

Tim

I do not think two pounds a week is too much to pay to get rid of the out of town selfish parkers.,


I am not sure 120.00 per annum would be too much for people who seem to be able to afford over half a million for a smallish house.

You are correct too many cars cause excessive pollution in urban areas with detriment to health of all residents.

A good afternoon to all.

[_HB]

We could always go full free market on the problem:

http://freakonomics.com/2013/03/13/park ... o-podcast/

Then I'm sure we could count on Tim's unqualified support.

[alywin]

I am not sure 120.00 per annum would be too much for people who seem to be able to afford over half a million for a smallish house.

You shouldn't confuse being property-rich with actually having plenty of money. Someone might have inherited their property from a parent, bought when prices were far lower - say 25 years ago - or downgraded from somewhere *seriously* expensive, like Hampstead, and paid off major debts with the balance. There are lots of older people out there desperate to downsize, but who can't because the flats and so forth that they're looking for are so expensive that they wouldn't have enough money left over to live on for the rest of their lives.

[Tim Lund]

We could always go full free market on the problem:

http://freakonomics.com/2013/03/13/park ... o-podcast/

Then I'm sure we could count on Tim's unqualified support.

In a previous era, we could have taken this one to the Pub. In due course I intend to set up my own blog, at which point I'll let _HB know how his confusion about free markets has been dissected, for all to see.

[_HB]

Something to look forward to.

[Eagle]

Alywin

In the scheme of things 120.00 for a free car park per year close to ones house. Amazing value.

To rent space or garage minimum 70.00 plus a month.

Running a car should not be free as it does not help the environment in a big city.

[_HB]

BUMPITYBUMP

Of wider interest:

http://www.foresthillsociety.com/2015/1 ... -hill.html

During November and December Lewisham Council is carrying out a consultation into a proposed Controlled Parking Zone (CPZ) in a network of streets bounded by Tyson Road, Horniman Drive, Sydenham Rise, Kirkdale, Dartmouth Road.

The cost of parking in the CPZ areas would currently be:
Residents - £120 per year or £30 per year for low emission vehicles
Businesses - £500 per year

You can take part in a consultation on the proposal by visiting the Lewisham website.

[Eagle]

It is has always amazed me that people were allowed free parking on local authority land.

[coll]

Hello
I wanted to move this up. I'm wondering if anyone has noticed that this parking problem is getting much worse in the last couple months?
Today I drove around the area for 25 minutes trying to find a place to park. I ended up 5 streets away from my home. You can now see the great influx of commuters rushing in between 8-10. Also the Audi place on the corner of Mayow road has all their staff parking on the local streets and not the free car parks. It has become a real mess.

[Eagle]

Coll

Very true all of what you write.

The only way to reverse the trend if most people do not want to give up their car , is for complete CPZ coverage.
That would bar the commuters who clog up Venner Road etc etc etc.

Yet everytime this is mentioned most people do not like it.

[stuart]

So Coll (and everybody else) has the time come for an overwhelming case for demanding a CPZ or no parking for an hour during the working day or only allowing, say 2 hours parking anywhere on road?

Stuart

[harrym]

I would DEFINITELY back a CPZ scheme - parking for me is a daily nightmare and massively reduces my enjoyment of living in Sydenham (the permajam down kirkdale doesn't help either!)

[Eagle]

Harry

Then canvas your Councillor on this.

All of Sydenham should be CPZ.

Probably cause havoc to the anti social parkers who drive to the station ( often from miles away ) and block the streets for local commerce.

[gillyjp]

Good. I hope there is a Sydenham wide CPZ which operates between 12 midday and 2.00pm. This is what most of the streets in Bromley have got and at a stroke it will stop all the commuter chancers lining up for a space (particularly evident on the road I live in which leads to the upline entrance to Sydenham station). Our road has become strewn with litter, is noisy even very early morning or late at night with those flipping overnight cases on wheels being yanked along. I've even seen a family get what can only be guessed at their holiday luggage out of their car park up and go off for 2 weeks vacation!

If it guarantees me a parking space within a few hundred yards of my house so that I can unload my weekend shopping on a Friday evening, I'd be more than happy to pay for a residents permit. It drives me mad when I've only just got in my car having not even put the key in the ignition and someone is hovering to get in the space I'm about to vacate.

We have spoken to our local councillor Chris Best but she doesn't appear to want to do much about it.