New Zebra Crossing on Railway Bridge

nasaroc · Post by **nasaroc** » 1 Oct 2004 21:03

The new Zebra crossing on the brow of the railway bridge is now up and running. It's a much needed addition allowing people to cross Sydenham Road close to the station and giving easier access to the shops on the other side of the road from the station.

But is it safe? Drivers have little warning of the presence of a crossing except for the beacons on either side; usually drivers can also see the black and white lines painted on the road which helps them to slow down. But on the brow of a hill they cannot see the actual crossing until it's too late. Also at night, the crossing seems to be badly lit - or not lit at all.

It seems to me to be an area where an accident is just waiting to happen. A pity since the Zebra crossing is part of a scheme to cut down accidents.

What do you think?

Pat Trembath · Post by **Pat Trembath** » 3 Oct 2004 15:59

I agree re potential danger of this crossing - driving up Sydenham Road the zebra stripes are not obvious to motorists - the stripes need to be widened to have more visual impact, especially for newcomers to the area unaware of the council's recent "pedestrian accident reduction" improvements.

It is also obvious that pedestrians are wary of setting out across the crossing in the way that the hover waiting for a gap in the traffic to occur.

Muddy Waters · Post by **Muddy Waters** » 7 Oct 2004 16:09

I think the sight lines are all wrong and that this zebra crossing is an accident waiting to happen!

This forum should be being used to get local residents talking about this hazard. So far this is only the third posting on this site. Is everybody else satisfied with what they see or are there others out there who feel there is something definitely wrong about the design? Remember the folk at the Town Hall who designed this also designed the infamous roundabout and we all know they had to go back to the drawing board on that one!

What do other folk think about this crossing?

Come on, let's have some feedback!

stuart · Post by **stuart** » 7 Oct 2004 16:20

There was nearly an accident on Tuesday lunchtime in the car I was in!

I was being given a lift home by somebody unfamiliar with Sydenham Road. He just drive straight over presuming the person crossing from the other side was jaywalking and would hold back.

It was a low slung car and the zebra is not visible through the windscreen until it is too late. With so much clutter around there and Venner/Station approach junction plus the pavement projection and the railings it is so busy that missing the beacons is just so easy. And that is in daylight.

As a pedestrian it is wonderful (I hate pelican crossings) so I now use it a lot. But you need to be aware that even careful and law abiding motorists will not necessarily give way even if you are midway across.

Take care....

PS It would have been better to position it nearer the roundabout - like the one on the Westwood Hill side - which also gives a central refuge.

Muddy Waters · Post by **Muddy Waters** » 8 Oct 2004 14:37

""BUMP"

Ella · Post by **Ella** » 8 Oct 2004 15:13

I completely agree about the safety of the new crossing. I was driving home the other night fully aware of the new crossing. I was just coming up to the Greyhound when I saw someone at the crossing on my right hand side. He started to cross and then jumped back as a car approaching didn't stop. He then started to cross and hesitated as I approached I stopped, but the car following me didn't and a collision was narrowly missed. Meanwhile the poor pedestrian didn't quite know which way to turn! This is definitely a crossing for the young and fit. OAP's need not apply.

nasaroc · Post by **nasaroc** » 10 Oct 2004 09:53

Some good news on the zebra crossing. Thanks to our pressure, the Head of Highways at Lewisham Council has agreed to install two floodlights - one on each side of the crossing. This will certainly help both pedestrians and drivers.

Muddy Waters · Post by **Muddy Waters** » 10 Oct 2004 10:19

Good news, yes but when? - we all know how long it takes for the council to complete a job even if health and safety problems are acknowledged AND does it solve the daytime problems of sight lines? NO!

Frankly I'm surprised that there has been so little response in this forum to the question of the safety on this crossing - is this because everyone else thinks that it is OK? Surely this is one of the strengths of a site such as this.

It would be helpful to read what other residents think.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » 10 Oct 2004 12:09

I agree Muddy and that the lights don't address the real problem.

Just in case anybody has missed the zebra crossing (and that's real easy), I've posted a report here:

http://www.sydenham.org.uk/news_zebra_crossing.html

Pat Trembath · Post by **Pat Trembath** » 12 Oct 2004 12:51

For information - the News Shoppper, presumably looking at this site, has clocked that there is a potential problem and was in Sydenham Road yesterday, talking to local residents and taking photographs.

With luck it will be in the Lewisham and Greenwich edition of the paper out tomorrow. Maybe Lewisham Council will now have to answer as to whether this crossing is safe - as it was designed by them and TfL?

However, if IF LOCAL RESIDENTS DO AGREE (and I haven't heard otherwise) that this ZEBRA CROSSING IS AN ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN, this Forum is an important place on which to post local opinions - anyone else with strong opinions? You never know who else is looking in!

Could there be anyone who does think that this a good idea, well designed and well executed? Please let us know.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » 12 Oct 2004 13:38

Pat - I rang RoSPA to ask aboout documentation/specifications for zebra crossings on the basis that the regs must specify something about visibility.

They came back and said the stuff they knew about was at:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/ and follow the roads & vehicles menus
http://www.iht.org/

As I do have a 'day' job I wondered if anybody had the time to dig down through these websites to see if there is anything relevant....

BTW are our local councillors taking up this issue?

Steve Grindlay · Post by **Steve Grindlay** » 13 Oct 2004 14:28

I don't have a day job so ... this link gives you the document on the DfT site that deals with zebra crossings:
http://tinyurl.com/5n6s4

This gives the Statutory Instrument (SI 2400) that is referred to in the above document:
http://tinyurl.com/57urt

I leave it to others to make sense of the legalese.

Steve Grindlay · Post by **Steve Grindlay** » 13 Oct 2004 14:35

Sorry, the link I gave to SI 2400 was to only part of it. The whole SI can be viewed here:
http://tinyurl.com/5ehwu

Steve Grindlay · Post by **Steve Grindlay** » 14 Oct 2004 19:47

It was good to see coverage of the concerns about this crossing in the current Newsshopper at http://tinyurl.com/5md5l

Molly Wickert · Post by **Molly Wickert** » 15 Oct 2004 15:32

I agree that the new crossing is very dangerous. The beacons are too high and are therefore not in one's sight line approaching the crossing especially going up towards Crystal Palace. I very nearly didn't stop in time the other day. I am particularly wary each time I approach the crossing now. However, as has been pointed out by others, not all drivers are aware of the crossing being there. I have discussed it with friends and we all agree that it is an accident waiting to happen. I noticed today that it has been blocked off, so the council is obviously aware of our concerns.

nasaroc · Post by **nasaroc** » 15 Oct 2004 23:01

Like Molly, I too was delighted to see this evening that the crossing had been put out of use by being cordoned off. Hopefully, it does mean that some of our concerns are being listened to before a serious accident occurs - or worse
But does it really need all the correspondence on this excellent website plus a fuss in the News Shopper to get our council to see sense? Surely responsible citizens should be able to quickly gain the ear of the council on issues such as this where lives are at risk.Lewisham used to proudly present itself as "the listening council" some years ago. Whatever happened to that?

stuart · Post by **stuart** » 16 Oct 2004 10:48

An updated report with photo on the closure is here:
http://www.sydenham.org.uk/news_zebra_crossing.html

The question is - what are Lewisham now planningt to do - and how fast? We must press for a quick solution and a safe solution.

I think moving it towards cobbs corner roundabout (ie in front of The Greyhound) would be better. I'd like to know what other alternatives we should campaign for...

Molly Wickert · Post by **Molly Wickert** » 16 Oct 2004 22:07

I think moving the crossing closer to The Greyhound would make the traffic situation worse. It would be better to move it down the hill towards the town, so that it is just below Station Approach. That would at least give traffic time to negotiate the roundabout before being stopped again instantly. However, given that people hate going back on themselves, those leaving the station would probably not use a crossing in that position but would risk crossing in front of the roundabout as they have done up to now. There is no easy solution to the problem, as undoubtedly the council will point out.

Steve Grindlay · Post by **Steve Grindlay** » 18 Oct 2004 18:08

I noticed this afternoon that the beacons have gone from the top of the poles, to be replaced by lights, directed down at the crossing. Whatever is happening, one cannot really fault the traffic people on the speed of their response.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » 19 Oct 2004 08:50

This morning (Tuesday) men are working on the crossing. They appear to be putting a 'bonnet' on top of the beacons as well as the extra lighting mentioned above.

I am still at a loss to understand how illuminating something that is out of sight will make it visible. Or can Lewisham now bend light?

What we need IMHO is an independent expert to re-evaluate the siting (TfL, Police, RRL, RoSPA?). I can understand Lewisham would be reluctant to go through the bureaucratic and time problems of a resiting - but this should not deteriorate into a row between users who are not expert but are scared and a council who, like most of us, don't like to admit mistakes.

Which is why we need some independent expertise we can all respect.

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Update - picture & comment now at http://www.sydenham.org.uk/news_zebra_crossing.html

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