Car in Venner Square

[Tim Lund]

[Pat Trembath]

As we appear to have started a new page - I'm re-posting my last message.

Cllrs Best and Onikosi have been trying to get this car removed all week. It is confirmed that if the car has valid tax which it has, the abandoned vehicle department of the Council is unable to remove the vehicle.

Latest information received from Lewisham is that the Sydenham Safer Neighbourhood Team have been dealing with this matter. It is understood the owner is unwell and unable to move the vehicle. He has also informed the SNT that it only has insurance for 3 days. If this is correct the police are the only ones that can remove the vehicle. A confirmation of this is awaited.

Although I have photographed this car from all angles to show the condition it is in before it is removed - surely a write-off? - it would appear that we would be breaking the law if we take matters into our hands. I think our car-shifting team (those who are left) will therefore have to stand down. Pity

[_HB]

Do it anyway. Predicted chance of prosecution: Zero.

[JRobinson]

if the owner is unwell, but wants to move the car, but can't - surely he could give someone the keys, and permission, and they could then move it somewhere more appropriate. all above board and legal like.

[Sydenham]

Pat - what law when you suggest there'd be breaking the law? Road workers often move cars parked where they want to tarmac - do they have special dispensation? And if there's the market on Saturday that's a good reason to act.

Anything specific from SNT team.

Where is Bensonby when we need him? Criminal damage - doubt it.

James

[stuart]

Well I will wander by - and if I see someone struggling with the weight I shall help out. I suggest the SNT check out Mayow Park or further afield at this time. I'm sure they wouldn't want to be embarrassed with people acting responsibly for the public good.

Stuart

[Pat Trembath]

Several of us turned up anyway but not enough to lift the car off the the car resting on its wrecked front bumper. Anyway in the meantime someone has nicked its battery so its going to have to be a lift job.

[bensonby]

Where am I when I am needed? Not in Sydenham as often as I used to be.

Is it an offence? Probably not. The two relevant offences that potentially spring to mind are:

Taking a Conveyance (s.12 of the Theft Act 1968) - but that would require it being moved for "someone's use". Just moving it out of the way would not satisfy that part of the offence I don't think.

S.54 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 makes it an offence to move a vehicle "by any means" with the intent to prevent or prohibit the removal of the vehicle by any person authorised to do it: again, I don't think that would cover it.

The simple question is where is this car parked? (I'm not in Sydenham and haven't been for a while).

Is it on the pavement or otherwise causing an obstruction? If it is then a police officer only needs to whack a ticket on it (it's for unneccary obstruction, offence code 52 and is valued at £40 If the officer doesn't know what ticket to use) and then it can be towed away.

With reference to insurance although it is an offence to maintain a vehicle in a public place police don't have the power to seize it (the power to seize uninsured vehicles is s. 165A of the Road Traffic Act 1988 only relates to vehicles being driven whilst uninsured).

If it is not causing an obstruction and is taxed then there is nothing that can really be done.

Hope that helps.

[Sydenham]

Thank you. I'm not really sure what obstruction it's causing (or the impact of the obstruction) but I think the car is on the little square at end of Venner Road abutting the main road. It's where our local market stalls often are.

I'm sure this information will help those who really know the problem it is causing to mobilise the necessary authorities if not already done so..... Whether it will actually get anything done or not I can't say.

[Eagle]

Venner Square.

Reminds me of St Mark's Square or Red Square. A magnificent addition to Sydenham infrastructure.

[Steveofsyd]

I really don't see the difference between this and me illegally using the square or pavement as a car parking space. In fact, as I keep saying, if I were to park in one of the car parking bays for longer than 40 mins I would receive a Ticket and be subsequently towed.

So the message is that If I drive to the high street, I can now park on the square and not receive a ticket, as I am taxed and insured... And they can't tow me for at least 7 days or is it a month or forever...Whoopee!
The rules are not consistent.

It's a lot of tosh and I don't believe a word of the drivel coming out of the Council offices.

Let me know when the vandals set it alight, I'll pop down with some marshmallows...

[Ghlpc]

Well said steveofsyd.

Whatever happened to "boss says we need to move the car.......so let's move the car"

How did things ever get so complicated?

[leenewham]

I think we should just do it. Bensonby doesn't seem to think it was an offence to move it.

Perhaps, if the owner is reading this, they might like to fill out this form:

https://www.lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/ ... icles.aspx

Otherwise they may find it's been moved or set alight while locals toast marshmallows.

[Steveofsyd]

Do you think it's our new Art Installation.....you know, to go with that other pile of crap...the Turdis?

[leenewham]

I think it's Tim Lund's new strategy to bring down house prices.

(Sorry Tim, only joking and written with love and a wry smile).

[stuart]

Well said steveofsyd ... Whatever happened to "boss says we need to move the car.......so let's move the car"

So where were you all Friday evening?

Stuart

[sydres]

I spoke to the local Police earlier (couldn't get through to SSNT), who claimed that there isn't anything they can do unless the vehicle has been reported as stolen. They stated that the Council is responsible for the inspection and removal of abandoned vehicles on public land and the public roads. The police can however, remove a vehicle to which a notice has been affixed by the local authority that has deteriorated to a dangerous wreck immediately.

So it needs spelling out to the Council:

Local Authorities are under a duty to remove a vehicle which is abandoned in their area, on any land in the open air, or on any other land forming part of a highway. However this does not cover vehicles abandoned on private land. Under this Act, abandoning a vehicle is a criminal offence, and if prosecuted carries a maximum fine of £2500 or three months imprisonment, or both.

Legislation: Refuse Disposal (Amenity) Act 1978 s.3

Fixed Penalty Notices
The Clean Neighbourhood & Environment Act 2005 s.10 inserts ss2A, B & C into the Refuse Disposal (Amenity) Act 1978 gives authorised officers of the Council the power to issue a Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN) in respect of an offence of abandoning a vehicle. The sum is set at £200 and local authorities may retain the receipts.

What is the procedure for removing an Abandoned Vehicle?

On the Highway, adopted road, public footpath or estate access road:

Where a Council officer proposes to remove a vehicle, which in their opinion is in such a condition that it should be destroyed, a notice is fixed to the vehicle for a minimum of 24 hours before removing it. If the vehicle is not moved within the 24 hours, the Council will remove and dispose of the vehicle. If an owner can be traced they are liable to pay for the removal and disposal costs.

Where a Council officer proposes to remove a vehicle, which in their opinion is in such a condition that it should not be destroyed, it can be moved to safe storage immediately while efforts are made to trace the owner. This helps to prevent further attacks of vandalism on the vehicle. If the vehicle owner is traced, a seven day notice must be served on the owner informing them of the authority’s intention to dispose of the vehicle if it is not claimed. If the owner does claim the vehicle they will be invoiced for the removal and safe storage costs for the vehicle.

I suggest the SSNT (or the Council) contact the owner of the car again and explain to them the urgency of the situation citing the above.

[Parker1970]

I wonder how long it will be until some young thug simply torches it. ........ oh wait... now there is an idea!

[Ghlpc]

Well said steveofsyd ... Whatever happened to "boss says we need to move the car.......so let's move the car"

So where were you all Friday evening?

Stuart

I suppose you were there, hence the response.

Sorry, I was working hard to pay the bills...like council tax.....

Anyway, as admirable as it was for the locals to gather and attempt to move the vehicle, my point was made to highlight the growing bureaucracy within councils to get anything done.

[Parker1970]

Well there is now at least a penalty charge notice on the windscreen as of 1800 hrs when I went past it.