Exhibition on Rebuilding Crystal Palace NOW ON

[tulse hill terry]

"Crystal Palace - Past Present & Future"

An exhibition on Ray Hall's proposal to rebuild the Crystal Palace on it's old site on the Parade.

This idea has been around for some time now, and while I have no connection to the organisers, I do think it is worth visiting, just for the amount of material, photos, newspapers, paintings, postcards and objects on display.

There is a lengthy thread on the Virtual Norwood site, so I won't go into detail, but have posted it here in case it was missed by anyone who wanted to visit in person.


By Andrew Williamson. [I did ask for permission, though my scan is atrocious!]

Crystal Palace Past Present and Future
Weekdays 12 - 3 and 6 - 8pm
Weekends 12 - 5pm

CsPace Gallery 28-30 Church Road (opp. Bingo Hall)

http://www.thecrystalpalacesite.com

[Savvy]

... it would be nice to visit to see all the old paraphanalia but that's the only reason I would go, the rebuilding of the palace just ain't gonna happen. It wouldn't be sustainable.

[Hester]

I object to the comment that a new Crystal Palace would not be sustainable.
The present proposal is to rebuild the Crystal Palace at 1/3 of its original size and use the space as a South london venue hosting exhibitions, concerts and other events. It would also include as permanent fixtures a hotel and a leisure centre which would include a climbing wall and other extreme sports. There is demand for sites that can accomodate these sports which are extremely popular with young people, and may soon be included in the Olympics.
Currently South London lacks a prestigious and sizable venue that can host such a variety of interests/events.

In the 21st Century South London needs an event space such as this. With Gatwick airport less than a hour away, the new palace would be accessible to the world-stage, not just South London.

The new crystal palace already has a brand name the like of which is rarely available to new builds. A new Crystal Palace can pretty much guarantee world wide interest. The new Globe theatre has been a resounding success, able to exploit its history and encourage visitors from around the world.
On a more local level, the new Crystal Palace could provide workshop space for young people, small businesses, sporting associations and the like... this really is a no-brainer...I look forward to the unveiling of the new palace on the 75th Anniversary of the 1936 fire.

[Juwlz]

I disagree with the idea of building of a new crystal palace. In this day and age green space is the most valuable resource we have. The very last thing we need is more buildings and traffic.

[Muddy Waters]

It's not that long ago that 40,000 local residents said "no" to a commercial venture, a 20-screen multiplex on the top site of Crystal Palace Park - a campaign that lasted 6 years.

The whole Park is designated Metropolitan Open Land, confirmed by a Public Inquiry in January 2004. This is the equivalent of "urban Green Belt" and is the argument that a number of objectors are using against proposals in the Masterplan for housing on the site of the Caravan Club and elsewhere.

The idea currently being floated is for a commercial venture including an hotel and Leisure Centre on the top site amongst other money making activities, exhibitions, events, concerts. There would be a vociferous second long campaign using the previous arguments against this.

Ultimately Bromley Council, as the Planning Authority, is highly unlikely to approve the change of use of Metropolitan Open Land to " a site suitable for development".

Sorry, just cant see it happening.

[tulse hill terry]

Fair comment above, the exhibition does give one a chance to put these views across in person. Amazing display as well.

The recent masterplan exhibition cost £20,000 and had 2000 visitors. With 3.5 million already spent, that's a lot for some granite benches!

The one thing I hadn't considered is what will happen to the park if the LDA take it on in 2009. How long will they be responsible for it? Will Bromley take it back? No one else seems interested without it bringing its own long-term funding. Would it have to be privatised?

[Pat Trembath]

If the Masterplan is given planning permission the LDA have stated that they will take a 125 year lease on the park and start the regeneration process. They will also sort out a governance plan for the park so that the day-to-day management does not become their responsiibility.

If planning permission is not granted the park will remain the responsibility of Bromley Council within whose borough boundary it sits.

[outcast]

Yeah OK so the LDA take the park on. They don't get any funding and bugger off. Who will take it on then? Bromley won't want it back will they?

[nasaroc]

Thinking up totally unlikely scenarios like the one posted above by Outcast really is the last strangled cry of a group of people who are opposed to any sensible improvement of CP Park.

The LDA has a long history of successful development in London and they are a central part of the GLA, involved with high-level projects such as the London Olympics site and the Thames Gateway. The LDA are willing to sign a 125 year lease. They simply aren't going to go away. The LDA may not immediately raise all of the funds needed to complete the plan but they will almost certainly raise a significant enough sum quite quickly to transform the park as we know it today.

What's the alternative? Leaving it with Bromley would be disastrous. Bromley are currently spending more on CP Park than Lewisham do on all of their parks and green spaces combined - and still CP Park is deteriorating. Bromley themselves admit that they cannot afford to maintain a park of this size - and no other London borough could either.

Roll on approval of the LDA plan (minus the scheme to rebuild the old Crystal Palace)!

[dickp]

or, more likely, Bromley Council WONT maintain the park, because 3/4 of its users aren't Bromley council tax payers, and it's therefore a low spending priority.

There are loads of local parks around the country of an equal or larger size, that local councils seem well able to maintain without any fuss. There's a perfectly-mantained 180 acre park, complete with boating late, oramental gardens, sports pitches and play area, slap bang next to my parent's house.

Given it's recent history, I'd rather take my chances with the LDA than with Bromley.

[outcast]

Really think people should wake up. Do you really think the LDA will give us shiny new sports centre after the olympics. I don't think so. Yeah they can take out a 25 year lease. Doesn't mean they won't sell it on. THEY HAVE NO FUNDING AT ALL So doesn't matter how good their master plan is THEY HAVE NO FUNDING wake up you all.

[tulse hill terry]

You do have a point Outcast.

The history of proposals for the Crystal Palace Palace site always seems to peter out with a change of personnel etc. A London-wide body has been abolished once already [remember the G.L.C. anyone?] and a London borough is more likely to be around in the next few decades I would have thought.

One of many reasons I am unhappy about the proposal to build housing to provide seed money, is that it is not staggered, the LDA could build all the houses they want and then disappear with just enough money to provide for a couple more years of "consultation."

I would have thought that some some bolt cutters and a bit of turf would be enough to release more space to the public. Why is that area fenced off with a chain link fence just beyond the car park by the terraces?

[tulse hill terry]

[nasaroc]

All very interesting but this simply isn't on the agenda and hopefully never will be.

It amazes me that many of the people who (quite correctly) opposed the cinema complex are now in favour of this monstrous scheme which includes "leisure" facilities and a hotel and is fronted by a "consortium of local businessmen."

Here is the cinema complex back under a different guise. This scaled-down "Crystal Palace" is no doubt sponsored by Anglian Home Improvements.

Joseph P will be turning in his grave at Edensor churchyard, right now!

[Juwlz]

Where would you rather live in London. Next to Hampstead Heath? Or next to Earl's Court exhibition centre?

I moved to Sydenham because I wanted to see trees out of my window, not because I wanted to be surrounded by more buildings and traffic.

[leenewham]

Having the Crystal palace in the park would be like living next to hyde park and being able to see the houses of parliament and trees.

I don't think the crystal palace will happen, but i'd like the park to celebrate the fact that it was there in some way.

I seriously doubt if we can do justice to such a structure today. Having been to the Eurostar St Pancreas station recently I was incredibly disappointed with what they had done and some of the fixtures and fittings were poorly finished and the flooring was a disaster. Plus the fact that building anything in the UK seems to cost the earth.

On a separate note, I hoe the houses they build on the caravan site are 'grand designs' rather than the usual brick wimpy Brookside close style estates. Something worthy of this age in the same way the incredible houses on Crystal palace park road were in their day.

Iim sure Mr Paxman would be proud of that.

[Nicholas]

I think this is the best thing that could happen to Sydenham, Penge and Norwood. Crystal Palace Park should have a Crystal Palace. We will be back on the map. In my opinion the trees on the site now should be cut down to make way and comapny building the Crystal Palace should buy Dulwich golf corse and use it to expand Sydenham Hill Woods to make up for the deforrestation.

[nasaroc]

The cost of building the new "Crystal Palace" is estimated to be £220m according to the ES article posted above.

The only way you can make a return on a private investment like that is to build housing, a shopping mall or a large-scale entertainment complex.

If you then add another £500m-£1bn to your costs by buying Dulwich and Sydenham Hill Golf Course as suggested above (I assume you are serious Nicholas?!) the whole venture becomes totally unworkable.

[Thomas]

There were a couple of letters in The Standard on Friday about this (one from Pat Trembath) - I can't find them on their website - could anyone scan a copy of them and post them here?

[tulse hill terry]