Another violent incident on Sydenham high street
Re: Another violent incident on Sydenham high street
I never see beat bobbies walking around. not enough police presence.
Re: Another violent incident on Sydenham high street
Re the fast apprehension of the offenders - i am sure there has been some good policing and also committing offences in broad daylight in front of witnesses and CCTV ups the chances if being caught
I am wary of of the Croydon shutters idea - fine for crime prevention but the post apocalypse " urban" feel does nothing to change attitudes of those that perpetrate crime - other than to re-in force their sense of victimhood .
For everyone else It sends out a message of lawlessness , deters decent chaps and ladies from taking a turn of an evening and making the streets more dangerous . I would prefer a town centre that looks like Burford or Lyme Regis ideally , not Watts LA . I bet town centre crime in Chipping Camden is minimal - is it the hanging baskets ? Of course not but neither do they suggest an area where " s@@@ happens" as do graffiti blinds do, in my humble view .
HB hinted at the truth in his Freakonomics/ abortion point but it is a very ugly truth .
Poverty and unemployment are at best partial causes , schools - usual scapegoat - it's the old fashioned stable family - 2 parents ( dont care if gay , S and M or cross dressing ) and a culture of work and responsibility . Apologies to the single mums - I'm sure you are doing a great job but the stats do not support fragmented families as a launch pad for crime free life .
An obsession with higher education ( and destruction of apprenticeships ) has taken a huge toll , as have an aspirant middle classes who want to lecture and shape policy but not willing to sacrifice anything for the worse off and of course a benefits culture badly applied , now , in equally bad backlash mode .
Legalising all drugs is a no brainer and it would save lives - literally tomorrow ( some of those who chose to dabble would die (as they do with legal highs now ) but you would not have a savage drugs economy that ruins lives all the way from Colombia , Afghanistan and Holland to Sydenham ).
But i think it starts with families .
A very good evening
Nigel
I am wary of of the Croydon shutters idea - fine for crime prevention but the post apocalypse " urban" feel does nothing to change attitudes of those that perpetrate crime - other than to re-in force their sense of victimhood .
For everyone else It sends out a message of lawlessness , deters decent chaps and ladies from taking a turn of an evening and making the streets more dangerous . I would prefer a town centre that looks like Burford or Lyme Regis ideally , not Watts LA . I bet town centre crime in Chipping Camden is minimal - is it the hanging baskets ? Of course not but neither do they suggest an area where " s@@@ happens" as do graffiti blinds do, in my humble view .
HB hinted at the truth in his Freakonomics/ abortion point but it is a very ugly truth .
Poverty and unemployment are at best partial causes , schools - usual scapegoat - it's the old fashioned stable family - 2 parents ( dont care if gay , S and M or cross dressing ) and a culture of work and responsibility . Apologies to the single mums - I'm sure you are doing a great job but the stats do not support fragmented families as a launch pad for crime free life .
An obsession with higher education ( and destruction of apprenticeships ) has taken a huge toll , as have an aspirant middle classes who want to lecture and shape policy but not willing to sacrifice anything for the worse off and of course a benefits culture badly applied , now , in equally bad backlash mode .
Legalising all drugs is a no brainer and it would save lives - literally tomorrow ( some of those who chose to dabble would die (as they do with legal highs now ) but you would not have a savage drugs economy that ruins lives all the way from Colombia , Afghanistan and Holland to Sydenham ).
But i think it starts with families .
A very good evening
Nigel
Re: Another violent incident on Sydenham high street
'Alleged offenders' until the court process is complete please.Nigel wrote:Re the fast apprehension of the offenders
Admin
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_HB
Re: Another violent incident on Sydenham high street
For the avoidance of doubt, although I cited the Freakonomics article on Roe vs Wade, I don't agree with anything that Nigel said. Especially the pish about single mums.
Re: Another violent incident on Sydenham high street
You could increase the numbers of foot-patrolling officers tenfold and there wouldn't be "enough". Officers on foot patrol rarely actually come across or are near to a crime in progress.markylon wrote:I never see beat bobbies walking around. not enough police presence.
It has its place: and there are lots of officers on foot patrol in the borough of Lewisham - the people that need to know that the police are about (I.e criminals) do.
Re: Another violent incident on Sydenham high street
Surely that's the point - offences aren't commited near to where police are patrolling, because police are patrolling there.bensonby wrote:...
You could increase the numbers of foot-patrolling officers tenfold and there wouldn't be "enough". Officers on foot patrol rarely actually come across or are near to a crime in progress.
...
turn 10% of the population into 'policemen' and have every street patrolled, and there'd be virtually no street/property crime.
but that's just not feasible.
Re: Another violent incident on Sydenham high street
I agree with Nigel about roller shutters, hard to deny since I said the same thing in the Clifton Aquatics thread: "...a decent roller shutter - the partially open-grid sort rather than the functional "full" roller shutters that make me feel like I'm walking in a downtown "hood" after closing time and in the dark." (1 Aug 14)
Walking along at 10pm this week I was very conscious of their effect and found myself looking round more often than I have for a long time. Roller shutters must surely reduce trade as it's impossible to window-shop in the evenings, either on foot or car being when the TFL through road is quiet enough to stop.
I don't agree with Nigel about "family" being a cure-all and even if I did, you can't exactly "magic" families into existence. David Cameron failed IMO to wave his magic wand by changing benefits to favour couples - that's just wrong when a PM is supposed to be looking after all rather than just his primary voters.
My thinking leans more towards having an incentive and, frankly, achieving a job on minimum wage (not much better than being stuck on subsistence benefit) isn't one. A living wage and some sort of job security would go much farther.
Small businesses rarely need to employ any sort of workforce that would make even the slightest dent in unemployment figures so foolhardy to rely on them (as DC is) to boost the economy whilst at the same time cutting existing (tax paying) jobs everywhere he can. Still, as long as society's ills can be blamed on someone else...
Walking along at 10pm this week I was very conscious of their effect and found myself looking round more often than I have for a long time. Roller shutters must surely reduce trade as it's impossible to window-shop in the evenings, either on foot or car being when the TFL through road is quiet enough to stop.
I don't agree with Nigel about "family" being a cure-all and even if I did, you can't exactly "magic" families into existence. David Cameron failed IMO to wave his magic wand by changing benefits to favour couples - that's just wrong when a PM is supposed to be looking after all rather than just his primary voters.
My thinking leans more towards having an incentive and, frankly, achieving a job on minimum wage (not much better than being stuck on subsistence benefit) isn't one. A living wage and some sort of job security would go much farther.
Small businesses rarely need to employ any sort of workforce that would make even the slightest dent in unemployment figures so foolhardy to rely on them (as DC is) to boost the economy whilst at the same time cutting existing (tax paying) jobs everywhere he can. Still, as long as society's ills can be blamed on someone else...
Re: Another violent incident on Sydenham high street
HB
Your comment " I don't agree with anything Nigel said " is so sweeping , I can almost hear 3 metres of taffeta swishing across a 17th century ballroom floor .
1st your point about Freakonomics / abortion - are you saying you don't understand your own post ?
2nd - I make no pop or " pish " about single mums but have you never heard of the" troubled family " agenda ? Do you think " troubled " means two supportive parents with good childcare skills ?
3rd- tell me how the criminalisation of drugs has lead to a reduction in crime , dependence , HIV, wars in devolving countries or desistance ?
I am willing to bet you won't even try - I don't care if you agree or not but I think all of us expect debate on the basis of facts not who is saying it .
A very costume drama evening
Nigel
Your comment " I don't agree with anything Nigel said " is so sweeping , I can almost hear 3 metres of taffeta swishing across a 17th century ballroom floor .
1st your point about Freakonomics / abortion - are you saying you don't understand your own post ?
2nd - I make no pop or " pish " about single mums but have you never heard of the" troubled family " agenda ? Do you think " troubled " means two supportive parents with good childcare skills ?
3rd- tell me how the criminalisation of drugs has lead to a reduction in crime , dependence , HIV, wars in devolving countries or desistance ?
I am willing to bet you won't even try - I don't care if you agree or not but I think all of us expect debate on the basis of facts not who is saying it .
A very costume drama evening
Nigel
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somerandombloke
- Posts: 599
- Joined: 9 Jan 2015 20:01
- Location: the elephant enclosure
Re: Another violent incident on Sydenham high street
SRB
Bless you for having a try but no , a straw man argument does not apply .
HB's argument is clearly there to be seen and in my view as poorly constructed as your straw man repost .
Bit like someone who has just been shown to be wrong , bigoted and stupid saying " touché " .
Talk about Chuckle Brothers do Question Time
A very reasoned evening
Nigel
Bless you for having a try but no , a straw man argument does not apply .
HB's argument is clearly there to be seen and in my view as poorly constructed as your straw man repost .
Bit like someone who has just been shown to be wrong , bigoted and stupid saying " touché " .
Talk about Chuckle Brothers do Question Time
A very reasoned evening
Nigel
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somerandombloke
- Posts: 599
- Joined: 9 Jan 2015 20:01
- Location: the elephant enclosure
Re: Another violent incident on Sydenham high street
A straw man so does apply with 99% of what you say Nigel. You are renowned for coming out with sad tiny narrow arguments which fal to the ground with the slightest tug. In this case we can piont over and over agin to the non nucleur familes which work beutifully well without dads and indeed without mums all they need is some guiding lights with whatever people are prepared to taek on that work. It is very obvious youve never reproduced yourself (jayzuz imagine little nigels!!!!) and have never been close to those how have and know little or nothing about the infamily politics and everyday logistics that being a mum or a dad or a nuncle or an auntie engenders. It is hard rewardunhg work and I have a pretty good idea that you have run shy of it all your live.Nigel wrote:SRB
Bless you for having a try but no , a straw man argument does not apply .
HB's argument is clearly there to be seen and in my view as poorly constructed as your straw man repost .
Bit like someone who has just been shown to be wrong , bigoted and stupid saying " touché " .
Talk about Chuckle Brothers do Question Time
A very reasoned evening
Nigel
Re: Another violent incident on Sydenham high street
SRB
I've obviously hit a nerve , for which apologies .
I never sought to attack individual one parent families and with respect , that will be obvious to most people .
Merely asserting that fragmented families statistically - i.e. one number bigger than another number , is a major contributor to crime .
Of course many or most children brought up without a father will grow up in loving supportive environments and do well but it will be less than than for typical families with two parents .
Lots of reasons : more difficult for single parent to work and provide positive employment examples , more likely to suffer poverty due to single income , difficulties for single mums to return to work ( a major priority for JC Plus ) harder to find childcare to allow single parent to go out and socialise .
What is straw man about that ?
Does my support for decriminalising drugs also make me a narrow minded Mail reading type too ?
A very good morning
Nigel
I've obviously hit a nerve , for which apologies .
I never sought to attack individual one parent families and with respect , that will be obvious to most people .
Merely asserting that fragmented families statistically - i.e. one number bigger than another number , is a major contributor to crime .
Of course many or most children brought up without a father will grow up in loving supportive environments and do well but it will be less than than for typical families with two parents .
Lots of reasons : more difficult for single parent to work and provide positive employment examples , more likely to suffer poverty due to single income , difficulties for single mums to return to work ( a major priority for JC Plus ) harder to find childcare to allow single parent to go out and socialise .
What is straw man about that ?
Does my support for decriminalising drugs also make me a narrow minded Mail reading type too ?
A very good morning
Nigel
Re: Another violent incident on Sydenham high street
I am closing this thread as it has drifted well away from the Sydenham incident to a generalised and contentious discussion best argued in Town Pub. Please feel free to resurrect it there.
Have a good weekend,
Admin
Have a good weekend,
Admin