Lewisham and West Penge candidates

[somerandombloke]

Nice also to see the socialist Miliband defeated with his bitter politics of economic envy.

You dont know shit about politics do you?

[SquashedCommuter]

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religio ... e-for.html

Utterly ridiculous. The question was:

Do you think British Jews' loyalty to Israel makes them less loyal to this country? Less British?

What on earth does that have to do with anti-Semitism?!

If they are partly loyal to Israel, then their entire national loyalty is not to Britain. Isn't this just plain common sense?

Jews are a segregated and small minority in this country and pose no threats as far as I can see. Their social culture may be unique but as political citizens they are integrated and democratic. They are mainly law-abiding, respectable, discreet and I've never seen attempt to impose their ideologies on others. That they defend their small plot of land the size of Wales seems to trouble a few people more than an ideology that wants to wipe them of the map and have the whole world in submission.

As far as I know, George Whale was the only candidate that spoke out to defend the Jews against rising anti-Semitism.

[somerandombloke]

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religio ... e-for.html

Utterly ridiculous. The question was:

Do you think British Jews' loyalty to Israel makes them less loyal to this country? Less British?

What on earth does that have to do with anti-Semitism?!

If they are partly loyal to Israel, then their entire national loyalty is not to Britain. Isn't this just plain common sense?

Jews are a segregated and small minority in this country and pose no threats as far as I can see. Their social culture may be unique but as political citizens they are integrated and democratic. They are mainly law-abiding, respectable, discreet and I've never seen attempt to impose their ideologies on others. That they defend their small plot of land the size of Wales seems to trouble a few people more than an ideology that wants to wipe them of the map and have the whole world in submission.

As far as I know, George Whale was the only candidate that spoke out to defend the Jews against rising anti-Semitism.

Admin! This ignorant bell end just mentioned Israel! Last time I did I got barred!

[stuart]

What on earth does that have to do with anti-Semitism?

That's a question not to ask me but to ask Wikipedia - your quoted authority on anti-Semitism. So I don't really care.

I just find it difficult to reconcile your new found admiration of UKIP, the party that banned Mr Whale and his party members for being too racist and, in return, regards UKIP as being too pro-Islam and anti-Semitic (yes really!).

But, I guess, you are far righter than me on this. I don't envy you that.

Stuart

[SquashedCommuter]

I just find it difficult to reconcile your new found admiration of UKIP, the party that banned Mr Whale and his party members for being too racist and, in return, regards UKIP as being too pro-Islam and anti-Semitic (yes really!).

I don't have any strong political party loyalties and not a member of any party (not even any of the small ones). I think Party Politics is holding the country back.

UKIP has many flaws and disgracefully appeases the media by submitting to the "racist" nonsense and banning candidates like Godfrey Bloom for saying anything slightly out of line with the mainstream politically correct mind-controlling bigotry. I just see them as the least worst of the main "far-wrong" parties in terms of policy. It is therefore better to see less votes go to the extreme left (Liberal Democrats) and more to the less extreme left (UKIP). UKIP would have been my second choice.

By the way, here is an interesting insight into the democratic system:

UKIP - votes 3,881,129; seats 1.
Lib Dem - votes 2,415,888; seats 8.
SNP - votes 1,454,436, seats 56.

[somerandombloke]

the extreme left (Liberal Democrats)

Mate you have got to be joking!!!! There slightly to the left of Labour who are the thickness of a Rizla from the centre!!!

[michael]

If they are partly loyal to Israel, then their entire national loyalty is not to Britain. Isn't this just plain common sense?

And no doubt somebody can't be a loyal Londoner if they support Manchester United. British Jews are loyal to Britain (with very few exceptions) but most have a natural empathy to the only majority Jewish nation. British Jewry do not take their orders from Jerusalem any more than British Catholics take their orders from Rome.
Sometimes what sounds like plain common sense is ignorance and just repeating a standard anti-Semitic trope.

Jews are a segregated and small minority in this country and pose no threats as far as I can see. Their social culture may be unique but as political citizens they are integrated and democratic. They are mainly law-abiding, respectable, discreet and I've never seen attempt to impose their ideologies on others. That they defend their small plot of land the size of Wales seems to trouble a few people more than an ideology that wants to wipe them of the map and have the whole world in submission.

Segregated and integrated? That's certainly a clever trick. Most of the Jews I know, particularly in south London, are well integrated into every aspect of the wider community, not segregated in any sense. A few communities of ultra-orthodox Jews live in more segregated communities, but they do not account for anything like the majority of British Jewry.

As far as I know, George Whale was the only candidate that spoke out to defend the Jews against rising anti-Semitism.

He also wanted to ban ritual slaughter of animals and importation of ritually slaughtered meat. That would make kosher meat (as well as Halal) illegal in Britain. That's hardly defending the rights of Jewish people.

[Smiffy]

Nice also to see the socialist Miliband defeated with his bitter politics of economic envy.

That old chestnut. No doubt you're delighted with the politics of selfishness, greed and hatred. Yeah, I'm alright Jack, **** the rest of you.

[alburt.c]

msr miliband heart with peeples like me. i work hard and pay lot monie for to living life but not good chance for sucseed not envy for other with bettar fortune. msr miliband is good man this why i vote him labur party. sad he not pm this day.

[Maria]

the politics of selfishness, greed and hatred. Yeah, I'm alright Jack, **** the rest of you

Those were exactly my words today, Smiffy; I am still finding it hard to believe what has happened and harder still to visualise the numbers of people who actually made it happen.

msr miliband is good man this why i vote him labur party. sad he not pm this day.

Allburt c - I couldn't agree with you more: I too feel sad beyond words. I am trying very hard to imagine reasons for optimism: I find none.

[alywin]

I am still finding it hard to believe what has happened and harder still to visualise the numbers of people who actually made it happen.

Well, according to the front page of the Daily Mail last Saturday, we know who was responsible - their readers.

[Tim Lund]

It is striking that while Labour was wiped out in Scotland, and lost England overall, it won in London - even here in Lewisham West and Penge, where Jim Dowd increased his majority, winning over 50% of the votes cast. So much for all of us active citizens' outrage at his refusing to engage face to face with his electors, and the supposed importance of being a good constituency MP.

Clearly. most people voting in here do not concern themselves with constituency specific issues, any while they may care about national issues, either they care more about London specific issues, or how thy see national issues is more in line with other Londoners than with those outside the M25. As to what should make the difference - well, here's a clue.

If we want effective political change, politics round here needs to operate at the London level - as I've banged on about on mumerous thread on this Forum, for example, from 2011

Whitehall, City Hall, Localism and The Renaissance of Bogotà

George Osborne is the national politician who most clearly thinks along the same lines, with his advocacy of a Northern Powerhouse.

This has to have implications for London - not sure whether to be making this point here, or on

A better gig at City Hall

[Eagle]

Yes Tim quite amazing result in Lewisham West and Ponge.

I wonder how much the average voter concerns themselves with investigating local concerns and candidate records.

I think democracy has a major problem . A bit concerned that the EU vote may be lost because of people not understanding the facts.

[Pally]

It is striking that while Labour was wiped out in Scotland, and lost England overall, it won in London - even here in Lewisham West and Penge, where Jim Dowd increased his majority, winning over 50% of the votes cast. So much for all of us active citizens' outrage at his refusing to engage face to face with his electors, and the supposed importance of being a good constituency MP.

Clearly. most people voting in here do not concern themselves with constituency specific issues, any while they may care about national issues, either they care more about London specific issues, or how thy see national issues is more in line with other Londoners than with those outside the M25. As to what should make the difference - well, here's a clue.

If we want effective political change, politics round here needs to operate at the London level - as I've banged on about on mumerous thread on this Forum, for example, from 2011

Whitehall, City Hall, Localism and The Renaissance of Bogotà

George Osborne is the national politician who most clearly thinks along the same lines, with his advocacy of a Northern Powerhouse.

This has to have implications for London - not sure whether to be making this point here, or on

A better gig at City Hall

From recent conversations I have had, some voters don't really concern themselves with specifics such as local, national or London... they just automatically vote Labour on principle! I suspect that type of "Labour Party regardless" voting has reduced but am beginning to wonder if rather less so than I originally thought!

[Tim Lund]

From recent conversations I have had, some voters don't really concern themselves with specifics such as local, national or London... they just automatically vote Labour on principle! I suspect that type of "Labour Party regardless" voting has reduced but am beginning to wonder if rather less so than I originally thought!

I doubt very much whether we in London are less likely to think about how we vote, and go for "Labour Party regardless". There has to be a reason why we like Labour more in London than anywhere else. I suggest it's because the housing crisis is particularly bad here, and we believed their commitment to getting more housing, but I'll admit, having a younger electorate, who will not be as turned off by Labour's London centric leadership will be another; there's less "Blue Labour" to be lost here.

[Pally]

From recent conversations I have had, some voters don't really concern themselves with specifics such as local, national or London... they just automatically vote Labour on principle! I suspect that type of "Labour Party regardless" voting has reduced but am beginning to wonder if rather less so than I originally thought!

I doubt very much whether we in London are less likely to think about how we vote, and go for "Labour Party regardless". There has to be a reason why we like Labour more in London than anywhere else. I suggest it's because the housing crisis is particularly bad here, and we believed their commitment to getting more housing, but I'll admit, having a younger electorate, who will not be as turned off by Labour's London centric leadership will be another; there's less "Blue Labour" to be lost here.

I wasn't particularly suggesting there was more of that type of voting in London, just that it is another type of voting along with the ones you listed

[alburt.c]

i think huose problam bettar with labur. ethnic peeples in london moor happy with labur so biggar votings for labur london. many ethnic peeples not trusting tory for london. birmingham vote is same for labur.

[alywin]

A bit concerned that the EU vote may be lost because of people not understanding the facts.

*Very* concerned that people will vote on it without a full overview of the facts

[Eagle]

Alburt

Your implication that people with ethnic background more likely to vote Labour is not black and white

The more progressive and go ahead ethnic communities such as the Indians tend to vote where their interests lie , which is not with Labour.

Most immigrants are entrepreneurs and should be natural Conservative voters . Shame when many of them vote for a party which just wants more and more handouts .

[mosy]

Eagle, are you sure it is a case of a party for handouts, or one that wants to invigorate an economy by stopping the downward spiral where many don't have two halfpennies to rub together? I personally blame stupidly huge gas and electric bills for that poverty incidentally as well as non-living wage incomes. An economy dependent on spending power that's held primarly by those who need to spend very little to maintain their lifestyle is a static one.

Edit: Forgot to say that as you're back Eagle, I hope this means you and fit and well.