Southern services to/from London Bridge
-
somerandombloke
- Posts: 599
- Joined: 9 Jan 2015 20:01
- Location: the elephant enclosure
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
Actualy Im enjoying bein back at work Im wiring a refurb office building in St Albans this week and my back is holding out. Im a bit older than most of my team but Im claerly the most experienced were in a caff right now having a bite cos it a long time since brekky!!! Hatin getting up at the crack of dawn (half five!!!) but Im sure Mr Eagle will be glad Im not poncin off the state any more!!!!
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
Rod - thank you for posting that link. Not a good read. It is a repetition of disgruntlement expressed here of the unreliability of Southern Trains running into LBG and the defence that it is all in a good cause as in 2018 or thereabouts the sun will come out and shine on a brand new sparkly station.
That station will have 6 Southern platforms down from the original 9. This is because the missing three are being switched to Southeastern/Thameslink through services. It was a deliberate decision to reduce the Southern service in favour of cross London services. So we have a double whammy - the final outcome will be less than the original and the disruption in getting there makes it even harder for Southern to deliver a service now.
Despite all the posturing by MPs in blaming Southern - they don't actually point out what Southern has done wrong. And if they cannot do that - just how can they help in putting it right? The truth is they are the one's to blame and it was our own incumbent MP who was part of the government that decided on this project. It's all (unless the next session improves) hot air.
Meanwhile, if it can get marginally better, its going to be down to the backroom boys and girls at National Rail and Southern working hard to better juggle too many balls for the number of hands available.
Admin
EDIT: IMHO the only long term solution would be to substantially increase the Overground capacity. The only practical way is to run longer trains into Whitechapel/Crossrail for central London. That would require a huge investment in the tunnelled section and further disruption achieving it. Are both politicians and commuters up for that?
That station will have 6 Southern platforms down from the original 9. This is because the missing three are being switched to Southeastern/Thameslink through services. It was a deliberate decision to reduce the Southern service in favour of cross London services. So we have a double whammy - the final outcome will be less than the original and the disruption in getting there makes it even harder for Southern to deliver a service now.
Despite all the posturing by MPs in blaming Southern - they don't actually point out what Southern has done wrong. And if they cannot do that - just how can they help in putting it right? The truth is they are the one's to blame and it was our own incumbent MP who was part of the government that decided on this project. It's all (unless the next session improves) hot air.
Meanwhile, if it can get marginally better, its going to be down to the backroom boys and girls at National Rail and Southern working hard to better juggle too many balls for the number of hands available.
Admin
EDIT: IMHO the only long term solution would be to substantially increase the Overground capacity. The only practical way is to run longer trains into Whitechapel/Crossrail for central London. That would require a huge investment in the tunnelled section and further disruption achieving it. Are both politicians and commuters up for that?
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
Over on SE23.com, michael posts some very useful updates, including those from Southern, and the Forest Hill councillors are also being very active on this. Worth having a look here: http://www.se23.com/forum/showthread.ph ... 9#pid67159
It's a very long thread so start at the end and work back for the most recent information.
And congrats to someotherbloke on the new job!
It's a very long thread so start at the end and work back for the most recent information.
And congrats to someotherbloke on the new job!
-
biscuitman1978
- Posts: 1588
- Joined: 16 May 2006 20:14
- Location: Chislehurst; previously Sydenham
Southern services to/from London Bridge
Thanks, Rachael.
michael also helpfully points us in the direction of this information (emphasis added by me):
I note that Southern refer to 'reliability and service punctuality'; there's no reference to reinstating withdrawn services, such as those withdrawn earlier this month which stopped at Sydenham.
michael also helpfully points us in the direction of this information (emphasis added by me):
Source: http://www.southernrailway.com/your-jou ... e-manager/Southern wrote:Our next meet the manager session is to be held at London Bridge on the Thursday 5th February between 7:30am – 9:30am. As part of our ongoing response to the issues effecting performance of train services in the London Bridge area, we are currently preparing a performance improvement plan in partnership with Network Rail which will be finalised and presented to the Department for Transport on Monday 2nd February. In light of this and the level of feedback we have received from customers in recent weeks we have moved the date of the meet the manager session to the 5th February. By doing this we can provide specific information from the performance improvement plan to customers, detailing exactly how we intend to improve reliability and service punctuality.
I note that Southern refer to 'reliability and service punctuality'; there's no reference to reinstating withdrawn services, such as those withdrawn earlier this month which stopped at Sydenham.
-
robbieduncan
- Posts: 384
- Joined: 28 Oct 2013 17:10
- Location: Trewsbury Road
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
Perhaps if a few of the trains that run to Gatwick/Brighton could be persuaded to stop it would help? Also when the train companies decide to cut out stops like Sydenham to make up time and not be late this should count as a cancellation instead (right now it doesn't)
-
biscuitman1978
- Posts: 1588
- Joined: 16 May 2006 20:14
- Location: Chislehurst; previously Sydenham
Southern services to/from London Bridge
...or perhaps simply an additional stop at New Cross Gate for some of the 'fast' Southern trains from London Bridge, allowing passengers to transfer to the Overground.
If that could be complemented by some additional Overground services then so much the better.
If that could be complemented by some additional Overground services then so much the better.
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
I fear that would make things worse. There is a threat to the existing fast 'stops' - the half hourly Oxted service as it lowers the capacity of the fast line (particularly as it is a diesel which takes longer to get back to full speed). There is a long piece on the possible redevelopment of NCG including reclaiming some of the sold off land when and if Sainsburys redevelop: http://www.londonreconnections.com/2014/new-cross-gate/
The Overground is only 2tph below capacity in the tunnelled section. Reclaiming the New Cross service would solve our problem but you can imagine the screams from Southeastern customers before the Bakerloo extension could take some of the load. Indeed the Bakerloo extension could be another way out of NCG. Not for many years though.
Admin
The Overground is only 2tph below capacity in the tunnelled section. Reclaiming the New Cross service would solve our problem but you can imagine the screams from Southeastern customers before the Bakerloo extension could take some of the load. Indeed the Bakerloo extension could be another way out of NCG. Not for many years though.
Admin
-
biscuitman1978
- Posts: 1588
- Joined: 16 May 2006 20:14
- Location: Chislehurst; previously Sydenham
Southern services to/from London Bridge
Thanks, admin. I confess I'm working from the Thomas the Tank Engine book of timetabling, but a couple of points (on which I suspect I'll be quite rightly pulled up).
Firstly, the article to which you link suggests running 'fast' trains from London Bridge on the 'slow' line before switching to the 'fast' line immediately south of New Cross Gate (once they've stopped at New Cross Gate). Why not do that (albeit a new timetable would need to be carefully designed so that the Oxted trains pass New Cross Gate just before trains rejoin the 'fast' line)?
Secondly, I only had in mind a small increase in Overground services, but surely even an extra 2tph would help?
Firstly, the article to which you link suggests running 'fast' trains from London Bridge on the 'slow' line before switching to the 'fast' line immediately south of New Cross Gate (once they've stopped at New Cross Gate). Why not do that (albeit a new timetable would need to be carefully designed so that the Oxted trains pass New Cross Gate just before trains rejoin the 'fast' line)?
Secondly, I only had in mind a small increase in Overground services, but surely even an extra 2tph would help?
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
Don't even think about making my through train stop Lems. It's enough that I have to look at your sad faces as I swoosh through on the fast line.
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
Stood in the cold in this new station design that has failed to take account of the English weather.
Would have made the 36 mins past if it were running.
Grumpy
Why would anyone go out of their way to go back on the underground further East of their direction of travel to then connect with overcrowded East London Line to then come back on yourself. this is more time consuming than indicated on the TFL website as well as an unpleasant detour. if anything went wrong with this journey then I would be further from home / alternative bus routes etc.
Madness
Would have made the 36 mins past if it were running.
Grumpy
Why would anyone go out of their way to go back on the underground further East of their direction of travel to then connect with overcrowded East London Line to then come back on yourself. this is more time consuming than indicated on the TFL website as well as an unpleasant detour. if anything went wrong with this journey then I would be further from home / alternative bus routes etc.
Madness
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
I got my first PAYG Oystercard statement since the works through the other day. I was surprised, and pleased, to notice that my journeys from Embankment (i.e. one of the specified tube stations) to Penge East via Victoria are now being charged as a single Zones 1-4 rail fare only, rather than the combined tube Zone 1 + rail Zones 1-4 (£2.70 instead of about £4.20 off-peak). I hadn't realised that Southeastern trains off Victoria were being treated as an alternative route during the London Bridge works.
This got me to thinking: if people have Travelcard season tickets because they regularly commute on Southeastern to one of the designated tube stations, and don't do much on public transport apart from that, it might be worth downgrading to a rail-only ticket. Or possibly even ditching the season ticket altogether and going Oyster Pay As You Go? I'll leave you to do the maths.
I presume this won't apply to Southern services as well, although since Southeastern's Hayes and Orpington lines have near neighbours to some of the Southern services I'd have thought they might be a viable alternative.
This got me to thinking: if people have Travelcard season tickets because they regularly commute on Southeastern to one of the designated tube stations, and don't do much on public transport apart from that, it might be worth downgrading to a rail-only ticket. Or possibly even ditching the season ticket altogether and going Oyster Pay As You Go? I'll leave you to do the maths.
I presume this won't apply to Southern services as well, although since Southeastern's Hayes and Orpington lines have near neighbours to some of the Southern services I'd have thought they might be a viable alternative.
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
Alywin,
I was advised quite specifically by TfL that Canada Water would not be an acceptable interchange station for my journey to Waterloo. I would have to change at London Bridge (even though the ticket barriers at Waterloo wouldn't know the difference).
So I purchased a Oyster Season ticket for an extra £400 more than I would pay for the season ticket to London. Since the January disaster Canada Water has been an acceptable interchange because Southern services are unreliable. When they eventually decide how long this farce will go on, I may be able to downgrade my ticket for the remainder of the year, having wasted loads of money and no longer being able to get the season ticket at the pre-January price.
I am continuing to pursue this issue as I believe passengers should be compensated for poor advice and appalling level of service. As I said on se23.com, at present there is no financial penalties on any rail company for the cancellation of half our evening services, so there is no real driver for them to reinstate these services.
I was advised quite specifically by TfL that Canada Water would not be an acceptable interchange station for my journey to Waterloo. I would have to change at London Bridge (even though the ticket barriers at Waterloo wouldn't know the difference).
So I purchased a Oyster Season ticket for an extra £400 more than I would pay for the season ticket to London. Since the January disaster Canada Water has been an acceptable interchange because Southern services are unreliable. When they eventually decide how long this farce will go on, I may be able to downgrade my ticket for the remainder of the year, having wasted loads of money and no longer being able to get the season ticket at the pre-January price.
I am continuing to pursue this issue as I believe passengers should be compensated for poor advice and appalling level of service. As I said on se23.com, at present there is no financial penalties on any rail company for the cancellation of half our evening services, so there is no real driver for them to reinstate these services.
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
How ridiculous. New Cross > Canada Water > Waterloo would clearly be a viable option, so why wouldn't that apply to Forest Hill?! Crazy. Not to mention the fact that Forest Hill > Waterloo would count as a tube journey, so you *could* dispense with the rail part of the season altogether. *And* doing it as a tube journey is relatively cheap, too.
Is there some sort of website where people can go if they've been badly served by season ticket advice? If not, someone should set one up.
Is there some sort of website where people can go if they've been badly served by season ticket advice? If not, someone should set one up.
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
I fear I have been getting the official advice from the most senior people in TfL in charge of ticketing - it took a long time to get a definitive answer to this question (about 3 years actually).alywin wrote:Is there some sort of website where people can go if they've been badly served by season ticket advice? If not, someone should set one up.
There was a concern that if everybody started using Canada Water, that the platforms would become overcrowded and dangerous. Well, they're right, unfortunately they have had to allow that anyway.
-
robbieduncan
- Posts: 384
- Joined: 28 Oct 2013 17:10
- Location: Trewsbury Road
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
http://m.bbc.com/news/uk-31483691
Southern passengers most delayed and least satisfied. Probably no surprise there!
Southern passengers most delayed and least satisfied. Probably no surprise there!
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
Just seen from se 23 forum that it looks like no trains / Overground beyond New Cross Gate on 4 out of 5 next weekends, starting this weekend. Be sure to go the station on March 14/15th to remind yourself what a train on a weekend looks like!
-
Parker1970
- Posts: 515
- Joined: 4 Nov 2014 22:36
- Location: Anerely
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
Well the TFL website confirms the above for this weekend, but only London Overground for the following weekend and nothing for the weeks after.... But lets face facts, can we trust TFL or Southern to be actually correct!squashst wrote:Just seen from se 23 forum that it looks like no trains / Overground beyond New Cross Gate on 4 out of 5 next weekends, starting this weekend. Be sure to go the station on March 14/15th to remind yourself what a train on a weekend looks like!
On a side note, I moved into Sydenham in October and noticed that some of the Service board London bound is obscured by a program update notification for LogMein (Remote access software). Almost 5 months later, someone still has not clicked OK on it.... no wonder we have issues if it takes them 5 months to click OK to a prompt
-
biscuitman1978
- Posts: 1588
- Joined: 16 May 2006 20:14
- Location: Chislehurst; previously Sydenham
Southern services to/from London Bridge
Medium-term works programme is at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/do ... osures.pdfParker1970 wrote:Well the TFL website confirms the above for this weekend, but only London Overground for the following weekend and nothing for the weeks after.... But lets face facts, can we trust TFL or Southern to be actually correct!squashst wrote:Just seen from se 23 forum that it looks like no trains / Overground beyond New Cross Gate on 4 out of 5 next weekends, starting this weekend. Be sure to go the station on March 14/15th to remind yourself what a train on a weekend looks like!
Parker1970 wrote:On a side note, I moved into Sydenham in October and noticed that some of the Service board London bound is obscured by a program update notification for LogMein (Remote access software). Almost 5 months later, someone still has not clicked OK on it.... no wonder we have issues if it takes them 5 months to click OK to a prompt
Have you raised this with London Overground? If not, and you want to do so, their contact details are at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/modes/london-overground/Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
Old habits die hard, don't they?!
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
Still grumpy. Waited for the 53, cancelled; said :09 on board, so thought I'll wait for that. Ran fast at the last minute.
New London Bridge station layout means I am now chilled to the bone and a lone female diverted again on a convoluted route home travelling like a saarf London sardine.
Must write to Boris
New London Bridge station layout means I am now chilled to the bone and a lone female diverted again on a convoluted route home travelling like a saarf London sardine.
Must write to Boris