SEE3 Town Team meeting - 7pm Thursday 30 Oct

[Joanne]

I'll not make further comment

[Pally]

I find Joanne's constant rudeness and put downs infuriating. Please Joanne, stop the sniping, your posts, (which I used to find offered another differing view as well as a lively discussion), are losing (have lost?) credibility.

Joanne did say earlier in the thread, that she has Aspergers which does explain some of the problem. I think that in her last email she was direct but spoke a lot of truth. It is unfortunate that she used Louises new venture as an example but clearly she was not aware that this had nothing to do with SEE3...neither was I. I have to agree with some of her comments on it, but I hope that Louise can overcome those issues

Joanne regularly makes very valid comments and asks very valid questions which as I commented to her earlier in this thread, get lost in the over bluntness and apparent rudeness that annoys people - so then they don't listen to the message. Her valid questions and suggestions (and other peoples valid questions and suggestions) never seem to get a response ...except occasional apparent defensiveness re bashing and criticising without giving any answers or sense that valid comments are being noted

I think it is a great shame that Joanne is giving up again. She clearly has knowledge and expertise which could be very useful if people can get past the Aspergers and listen.

I was disappointed not to be able to attend the meeting on Thursday due to unavoidable other commitments. I am genuinely interested, as Joanne is, I think!
I think it would be great, as Annie says, to see what Joanne could do, working with the many other interested people who attended the meeting/make suggestions on this site/are part of the traders association/Sydenham society. But I get no sense that things are joined up, with or without Joannes comments, input, ideas, or anyone elses.

I am sure that this post could also come over as sniping which is not the intention. If I can get to the next meeting I will make these points there, if the opportunity arises ...I know they are going to be monthly so hopefully lots of notice will
be given - or has a date been arranged already that I have missed?

Finally Joanne I hope that you will not give up but continue to ask questions and explain your reasoning re where things have worked/not worked! And I hope that all the valid points made by several different people on this site can feed in to future developments with the new core group.

[Annie.]

Well said Pally,
I would genuinely like to see Joanne get involved and to see what she can bring to the table.

[Joanne]

I would just like to acknowledge that I have read your last post Pally and to say thank you.

Currently I’m under pressure with my latest project (another Pop Up), it will continue until end of Dec.

A few thoughts though, I believe vital:

- we need a full SEE3 evaluation to be made accessible (STF a good place)- should include financials too- allocation of funds, unspent etc.-
- plus the minutes from the 30 Oct meeting and action points
- update on who is directing/ involved in SEE3- does it exist as a company still? Without rewinding through posts a long time ago, was there not mention of the company being wound down?

Until we have this basic information I don’t think it is reasonable to ask what I could do to contribute.
Also do please remember that I did put a proposal together at the outset. This was only because a STF member thought to advertise the SEE3 posts available. The people who bid for funding did not- from memory I had something like 48 hours or so to do so.

SEE3 – that’s the people who bid, gave themselves the jobs.

This was their level of communication from the outset.

Do also remember these were salaried posts- positions were announced, somebody to project manage the Pop Ups, the market and so on…but we never heard about these people after that.

Clearly a line must be drawn…but until we know where we are at, it is impossible to work out how and where it might be possible to contribute.

Logical steps are required because I sense a total shambles.

[Pally]

We will have to await the outcome of latest discussions etc

I am not aware of the history of the SEE3 original set up having only recently started trying to find out a bit more having joined this site

Good luck with the new pop up

[louisecbrooks]

I’ll answer the points you have outlined Joanne despite the fact that many have been answered before, but for clarity here they are:
The GLA are pulling together a report for the SEE3 Portas Pilot based on the reports submitted by the various contractors who carried out the work. I don’t know the timeline on this but I would suggest you contact Chris Best, Chair of SEE3 for more info at info@see3.co.uk.

The original bid team were:
Cllr Chris Best (Counsellor for Sydenham)
Cllr Alex Feakes (Was counsellor for Forest Hill)
Annabel McLaren (Chair of Sydenham Society)
Pat Trembath (Sydenham Society rep)
Richard Hibbert (Was chair of Forest Hill Society)
Rebecca Leathlean (owner of Alhambra on Kirkdale, and member of Kirkdale Traders)
Ed Holloway (Director of local architect firm, Beep Studio)
Louise Brooks, i.e: me. I was approached by Ed who was putting the bid together because I had formed an empty shops group locally to share ideas with local like-minded folk regarding what we could so about the empty shops. Ed felt this was an area that had potential in the bid. My background is in marketing, and since having my children I had become a lot more active in the community, and had started consulting with local businesses.

The current SEE3 Core Team (i.e: steering committee) are:
Cllr Chris Best, Chair of SEE3
Alex Feakes, Treasurer
Annabel McLaren
Pat Trembath
Michael Abrahams (replaced Richard Hibbert)
Ed Holloway

SEE3 Limited was set up to facilitate the administration of the funding. There are no plans to disband. The Chair is Chris Best. Directors are currently Alex Feakes, Richard Hibbert, Annabel McLaren and Rebecca Leathlean, although Rebecca is stepping down.

There has been a recent appeal for new members of the Core Team to drive the strategy and plan moving forward. There has been a pretty good response so I hope to see the team grow and thrive.

The Town Team meetings are looser in structure than the Core Team meetings. There will be a recap, posted on the SEE3 website and shared in the newsletter, but currently there are no plans to minute the meetings. The Core Team meetings are minuted.

Jobs were not given to the bid team members. I was the only one employed as a project manager. I designed the pop up shop project for the bid, which was instrumental in winning the funding. I adhered to GLA and Lewisham Council requirements to submit a tender to run the project. I did request that it was made clear at the outset that I was applying to run the project but was told that this was not possible. This is the job that Joanne applied for. Joanne I would suggest that you contact Lewisham Council and Chris Best if you have any questions about the hiring process, who are in a better position to answer any further queries.

The contract ran from October 2012 to October 2013. My involvement with the group before and since has been purely voluntary, including acting as Festival Director of the most recent Forest Hill Fashion Week.

SEE3 covers three different high streets, and there is engagement at different levels in each area. The Sydenham Town Forum is not the official place for everything to be shared. It is one channel of a number of channels that SEE3 uses to engage with the community.

Improvements do need to be made to the way that SEE3 does things, and by reinstating monthly Town Team meetings and calling out for new members, the existing Core Team members are doing their best to make sure that these improvements happen. I would like to reiterate that these members are all volunteers who do have other commitments.

The next SEE3 Town Team meeting is Tuesday 18 November, 7pm at Here for Good.

FYI, I have stepped down from the SEE3 Core Team to concentrate on my new business, but I will do my best to support and drive improvements moving forward.

[Pally]

Louise, it is useful to have that background information, thankyou

[louisecbrooks]

And in answer to Pally's point about how joined up the various groups are, well you can see that the heads of the local civic societies sit on the Core Team. Chris Best is chair of the Sydenham Traders Steering Committee, which I think is in place of a trader's association because there hasn't been a consistently active one in place for some time. The newer traders are becoming more active though and have had several meetings over the last year, and are starting to co ordinate their activities. Chris is pretty connected with Sydenham traders, and they have got involved in hosting various events or volunteering to help with certain initiatives in collaboration with/as part of SEE3.

Becca from Kirkdale Traders did sit on the Core Team, and will hopefully be replaced by another member of the traders group, or another representative.

In Forest Hill the traders are a lot more active. There has been pretty constant engagement and coordination on one level or another. They were heavily involved in the recent Forest Hill Fashion Week, and the Jack-in-a-box community engagement initiative at the beginning of the year. The Forest Hill Society actually staged the Closing Concert and market for Forest Hill Fashion Week this year.

The SEE3 Christmas calendar was partly launched (Christmas 2012) as a tool to coordinate all of the events of the various groups in the area. You will note it includes events from schools, churches, traders, civic societies and more.

Sydenham Arts has recently joined up with SEE3 to drive arts related initiatives in the area. In the short term they are providing entertainment at the monthly markets in Sydenham.

There is still a hell of a lot that could be done to better coordinate these various groups and if you have ideas as to how to build on these steps, and have capacity to help drive your ideas, or suggestions at which resources could be employed to bring those ideas to life I think you would be an amazing asset to the organisation.

Yes the fact that a lot of this hasn't been communicated is a bit of a fail, but as I have said a number of times this is part of the problem with organisations that are solely reliant on volunteers.

[Pally]

I can't commit at the moment because of unexpected other calls on my time. I am interested though. I have experience of working with volunteers and take your point. Which is why I am unwilling to commit until I am sure that I can give the time.

My comment about being joined up came from my own struggle to find out much, as someone newly getting interested... which suggests to me, as you acknowledge, that more could be done re coordination ...starting perhaps with consistent linked reporting. I have finally managed to start looking at the various group sites etc but each of those don't give a sense of join up... although Sydenham Society has links to various other relevant groups....although not SEE3 I think, unless I missed that.

Unfortunately yet again I can't attend on November18th...never mind, I'll get there in the end I expect!

[louisecbrooks]

Good point Pally, and one that has been identified. Again its just capacity to get it done at the moment. Quite a few marcomms folk have come forward though so fingers crossed we'll get there soon.

Look forward to seeing you at one of the future meetings.

[P1971]

I'd just like to add that the amount of hard work that went into achieving the biggest and best FHFW to date was massive. I think Louise deserves a lot of credit for spearheading this voluntary. Credit where credits due!

[Pally]

Absolutely re credit where credit is due. I am not sure that I have suggested that credit is not/should not be given!

I feel a bit like I have inadvertently got caught up in some on going "posts tennis" about SEE3 despite having made a point of saying that there may be things I don't know about that are happening, on several occasions. I have also commented positively on various threads about things going on, as well as making I hope reasoned comments on what is lacking, including communication, (which Louise has acknowledged).

From my perspective, none of this thread or any other should be about individuals but about strategy and groups feeding into that strategy. Certainly none of my posts have been directed at anyone personally, and having looked back through them I don't think there are any that can reasonably be misinterpreted that way.

Anyway I am glad that FHFW went well and well done Louise and anyone else involved. When I can I will get more involved in Sydenham as explained previously

[P1971]

Hi Pally

My post was general and not to anyone in particular. I just thought It was appropriate to point out on this thread.

Best Wishes

Pauline

[Pally]

Fair enough!

[Joanne]

I appreciated you taking the time Louise to clarify further.

My first thought, hearing you have stepped down from the SEE3 Core Team is to ask why are you being left with the responsibility to become the spokesperson?

What about Chris, Alex, Annabel, Pat, Michael, Ed keeping us informed?

We know from Lee that there is unspent funding- to improve the High Street signage.

Why has this not been used?

Further why the most unimaginable delay (over a year) to provide us with an evaluation?

We are trying to find out where SEE3 is at and until we do understand that, it is impossible to know how we might contribute.

This has the air of complete incompetence to me.

Year 3 isn’t it?

Surely it is not that difficult to link up all the local organisations and to show some unity.

If I can achieve just that in a week with our projects- then it shows it is possible.

[Pally]

I have looked on the SEE 3 site each day but there is no update on the meeting that I can find. Has anyone else seen one that I have missed? It would be good to know what was said in updates on progress so far, that Tim mentioned had dominated the meeting (as I have said previously I couldn't make the meeting, and there must be others like me who despite non attendance are interested.)

[Joanne]

Another flunked weekend in SE26.

Previously we had the morris dancers who were also an eyesore.

When will SAF realise that they may need to broaden their repertoire- not just the War

What are the changes to the Market?

Who on earth needs to explain that they have put up a poster / banner and describe location?

Louise Brooks in this thread has told us that her new shop in Lower Sydenham has nothing to do with SEE3.

Why then is this called a ‘Shop Revolution’ project and enquiries are guided towards the SEE3 web site

My apologies for the late post.

[stuart]

Thank you Joanne for your thoughts. I happen to disagree with some of them.

I found, as many others did around me those Morris Men great fun, technically accomplished and a great challenge to our preconceptions of that form of folk dance. OK it may not be your thing, you may indeed think them an eyesore. Its your opinion and only your opinion. Opinions are not facts. The idea was tried - you are, AFAIK, the only person to have a negative view of it hence that's about as good a reception as you are going to get to any initiative in Sydenham.

The market has many problems but that performance wasn't one of them. A broadside at everything that moves isn't going to get you anywhere.

The point I am making is that this is a public forum. The idea is to discuss stuff, inform stuff and maybe change some ideas. It can be very frustrating. People can be very stuck in their ideas. Changing anything is very difficult (and not just in Sydenham), criticising or having a rant is much easier. I know, I do it too in moments of weakness. And I always regret it.

It gets you nowhere and builds up antipathy to you and hence what you may have to contribute. That's an awful shame.

So a suggestion which you are free to use or ignore. Next time SEE3, SAF et al screw up in your opinion - do open the post reply box and give them both barrels. But before you hit the the submit button - read it and read it again not as yourself but as someone out in the middle who has to make a judgement. If you portray your adversaries as idiots you do both of you a disservice. There are reasons they do what they do. There are reasons they don't do other things. It can be just the case of lack of time, lack of money. I don't know.

But is what you post going to improve things or just cause more ill feeling? That's when, I suggest, you look to one positive point and delete the passion, the collateral. And make people *want* to do it. Find out why it hasn't - which you won't if they feel they are going to be harangued and go into defensive mode. Most of all accept that while we all are sometimes right, we can also be wrong too.

HTH
Stuart

[Joanne]

Apologies for my late posting again but that is just how it is at the moment.

I find your post Stuart rambling and without solutions.

Whatever your thoughts are the Morris dancers, market, the war are not creating an improved high street. Each event is lacking in attendance, it just falls flat.

This is Year 3 and nothing appears to be taken on board.

For those new to the Forum, this is not new so it is pretty frustrating.

At all points it has a flavour of being amateur. SEE3 still appear to be so headstrong that they are the wiser.

Louise will be opening up a permanent shop soon. It has no chance of working.

I do realise that isn’t a helpful statement but the concept is pretty confused which reflects all stages of the SEE3 project.
I don’t understand too why SEE3 claim success when a permanent retailer took over their space.

For example where Cherry & Ice now is, this was supposed to be SEE3’s advice hub. That was after SEE3 detailing every stage to their refurb. Pretty boring. Then soon after they open are closed down.

SEE3 keep saying that new shops opening have to do with them. Of course not. Complete shop refits have been required.

On the Hoof are still without signage. This is around the 2 month stage, my understanding is that Lee is involved here.
I’d be extremely concerned if I had no signage on Day 1.

Good signage might help matters because I often pass and just see one guy by the window on his laptop or writing.
It is pretty worrying so I hope Lee if you are involved to get into gear pretty quick.

I do feel negative, before anyone thinks to tell me that or knock me down again. But there is literally nothing effective happening.

Morris Dancers, the War etc. are not helping matters either.

[leenewham]

I'm working late so I will reply to this. Once.

On The Hoof is nothing to do with see3.

The missing signage from the excellent On The Hoof is nothing to do with me.

I've explained this much clearer in a pm to you Joanne if you want to know more. I don't want to discuss it here.

I submitted designs and artwork for On The Hoof's' signage to the owners. However, I don't make or install signage. OTH is a great local business run by local people. Their food is excellent, as many people will testify.