Could the Greyhound become an M&S Simply Food?

dickp · Post by **dickp** » 4 Jan 2008 14:20

A large shop area, a good sized car park, room for staff facilies up top, and the site retained as a local community service.

I've seen odder pub conversions in my time...mainly to McDonald's drive thru's.

nasaroc · Post by **nasaroc** » 4 Jan 2008 15:02

This area could become lots of things but until the developer decides to make a move, it is simply going to sit there and rot.

A number of alternative potential developers/businesses have offered to buy the site/develop the Greyhound but have been met with blank silence by the existing owners.

The ball is entirely in the developer's court.

Fantasising about what may or may not be developed there is entirely fruitless until they get their act together.

dickp · Post by **dickp** » 4 Jan 2008 16:21

Buttocks to fantasising. I’ve written to them, asking them to consider it.

Yes, I am that bored.

nork1 · Post by **nork1** » 4 Jan 2008 17:57

nasaroc wrote: A number of alternative potential developers/businesses have offered to buy the site/develop the Greyhound but have been met with blank silence by the existing owners.

A bit selfish that - 'we can't do what we want with it so we're going to do nothing and hope it falls down. And no you can't have it'.

dickp · Post by **dickp** » 4 Jan 2008 18:03

to be fair to them, if they are a large company, the greyhound may just be another asset on their landbank that they will get round to eventually.

Milfordgroup · Post by **Milfordgroup** » 4 Jan 2008 20:43

I would like to confirm there has been absolutely NO approach to Milford Group or the sites owners from any individual or business wanting to buy the site apart from some national house builders, whose interest would be in residential develoment.

We are in discusion with some well known national high street traders, as we infromed the Sydenham Society in July. These discussions are on hold due to the designation of the Conservation area which caused them to have to reappraise there plans. This is on going.

If NASAROC would like to provide us with the details of the interested parties he knows, that have alledgedly approached us I will listen to what they have to say and pass it on to the owners.

Steve Knott

0208 763 3500 ( Office Hours)

nasaroc · Post by **nasaroc** » 5 Jan 2008 11:21

Dear Steve

I'll gladly ask both companies to contact you again.

I'm unclear what you mean when you say that the situation is "on going". Surely this site has been declared by the mayor as part of a conservation area and this is a matter of fact and law that any developer has to work within.

All locals want to see this site developed. Why should the fact that this is a conservation area prevent the site being developed profitably?

When are we going to see plans to develop the site?

nork1 · Post by **nork1** » 5 Jan 2008 11:58

What I'd like to know is why Milford shut the pub down before any of their planning applications were approved. We're stuck with an eysore now and for the forseeable future whereas as with The Greyhound - ok, not to everyone's taste - at least we had something that was open and used.

Julsb · Post by **Julsb** » 5 Jan 2008 15:26

Yes, I'd like an answer to that too. Do we need to ring Steve Knott individually, or will he be happy to post a response here?

Muddy Waters · Post by **Muddy Waters** » 5 Jan 2008 18:26

Can Mr Knott advise whether Milford (or the site's owners - who are they by the way?) has ever put in a formal application for the Greyhound site? And if not, why not?

I cannot see any "well known national high street traders" committing themselves to this site until there is a permission showing size of retail units available and basic layout of the site.

The pub, and the area around Cobbs Corner, is now designated a Conservation Area so presumably the site owners (if not Mildford) must be talking to Lewisham's planning officers about what can be considered as acceptable to the planning authority for the entire site. Until this is established nothing can move forward.

In summary, Mr Knott, has there been any discussion between Milford (or the site owners) and Lewisham Council about the future of this site since the Conservation Area was designated some 4 months ago?

Nickerbockers · Post by **Nickerbockers** » 7 Jan 2008 10:42

M&S Simply Food??? Oh PLEASE let that be true, that would be FANTASTIC!!! Not for the diet, but...

Milfordgroup · Post by **Milfordgroup** » 7 Jan 2008 11:03

I'll gladly ask both companies to contact you again.

I'm unclear what you mean when you say that the situation is "on going". Surely this site has been declared by the mayor as part of a conservation area and this is a matter of fact and law that any developer has to work within.

Again ? As mentioned I would be glad to speak with them, perhaps , Barry, you should be party to any discusions to avoid any further confusion.

" On going " means exactly that, we are not contracted with any one as we do not have planning, we are in Subject to planning discusions.

Nork1, Milford Group or the sites owners did not own the Pub when it shut, the previous owners shut the pub. Previous posts by the S.Society on this forum to the contrary are incorrect.

Milfordgroup · Post by **Milfordgroup** » 7 Jan 2008 11:32

Muddy Waters

A formal application has never been submitted. Comprehensive plans were before Lewsiham Council, we were awaiting the Planners comments on these for over 8 weeks and in the mean time the site was included in the Conservation area. You are correct, high street traders would not "commit" to a site untill detailed plans are given permision and the current building does not suit them in its present form. We are looking at ways to address this,if possible ,within the constraints of the sites current status.

I can not comment on our postion or discussions with Lewisham Council subsequent to the Mayor designating the Conservation area.

Pat Trembath · Post by **Pat Trembath** » 7 Jan 2008 15:35

As far as the Sydenham Society is aware Milford Group, either as outright owners or as agents for Wealdfrost, formally took possession of the Greyhound on 13 August.

Two weeks prior to that date on Monday 30 July, Barter Inns, the then licencees, were advised that their Lease would be foreclosed on Sunday 12 August and that they should vacate the pub within 24 hours of that date. The Sydenham Society understood that Barter Inns had wanted to continue to trade.

Understandably Barter Inns ceased trading on 11 August in order to remove their property from the premises before the 13 August deadline, when the pub officially changed hands.

If this sequence of events is incorrect the Sydenham Society will publicly acknowledge this as misinformation.

With regard to whether there have been any discussions between the owners, the developers and Lewisham Council subsequent to the Conservation Area designation, all indications are that the answer to this question is "no".

Milfordgroup · Post by **Milfordgroup** » 8 Jan 2008 10:14

Ms. Trembath,
With respect, your facts are wrong. Completion and posssion took place on the 23rd August 2007. The previous owners gave notice to the tennant Barter Inns, not Milfords. The building was vacant when our clients took possesion. Windows had been smashed and fly tipping had taken place in the car park hence the hoarding to try and stop this happening. We spent nearly £4,000 clearing dumped rubbish from the car park. These are matters of fact, not speculation.

I hope this clears a miss understanding.

P.S. I have not as yet heard from the interested parties mentioned by Narsaroc.

Pat Trembath · Post by **Pat Trembath** » 8 Jan 2008 17:13

The Sydenham Society's facts as to who gave Barter Inns notice of foreclosure of their Lease may be incorrect and we apologise for this minor inaccuracy.

The fact remains that Milfords on behalf of the owners repeatedly stated to Lewisham officers, to the Sydenham Society and to the press that their intention was to demolish the Greyhound.

If Milford/Wealdfrost had so wanted, Barter Inns could have continued trading until such time as a planning permission for the future development of this site was determined by the local planning authority. This would have obviated the vandalism, the fly-tipping, the arson and the unsightly hoarding.

The only way forward for this site is for a formal planning application to be submitted by Milford Group, as the agents for Wealdfrost, following discussions with the planners at Lewisham.

Ella · Post by **Ella** » 8 Jan 2008 17:32

Pat - although I agree with a lot of what you say it seems to me that we are now looking at the Greyhound through rose tinted glasses. As I remember it there were fights (some involving the police), drug dealing and generally a lot of bad behaviour and for these reasons I can't really say that the loss of the Greyhound, as it was, is any great loss to Sydenham!

leenewham · Post by **leenewham** » 8 Jan 2008 20:16

Ella, you are talking about how the pub was run, not the building.

People want the building to remain rather than it be replaced with yet another boring identikit block of flats rather than a building that has been part of the Sydenham for over 100 years which is of some architectural merit.

Ella · Post by **Ella** » 9 Jan 2008 08:43

Leenewham

I completely agree with you, but in her posts Pat says 'Barter Inns could have continued trading'. All I am saying is that I would rather see it closed until its future is decided rather than see it continue trading as it was, with the clientele that it had.

Pat Trembath · Post by **Pat Trembath** » 9 Jan 2008 09:45

I dont think anyone in the Sydenham Society has ever had rose-tinted glasses about the way in which the Greyhound was managed.

During 2004 and 2005 we had considerable correspondence with Mitchell and Butler who were the owners of the Arena pub asking for improved management and detailing problems that local residents were experiencing.

For a while we held our breath as the pub was remarketed and "under new management". During the summer of 2005 members of the Sydenham Society met with M&B's Area Manager and the Greyhound's new manager and all sorts of ideas were being considered as to how to improve its standing locally, including turning part of it into a cafe.

But it was not to be. M&B sold on - the ownership of the site has changed hands several times since and little interest has been shown in how the Greyhound was being managed by the various owners. The past couple of years has been dismal, I agree.

The fact remains that the Greyhound occupies an important town centre site and is a building with some historic and architectural merit. Buildings like this can be incorporated into modern surroundings. For example, look at the Three Tuns in Beckenham (another pub which has had a checkered past). It is now a thriving restaurant, with residential flats above and a gated mews courtyard of housing on the old car park.

Lewisham Council clearly wants to retain the building on the site, as does the Sydenham Society, as do a large number of local residents, judging by the number of people who rushed to sign the petition against threatened demolition.

What we now want to see, surely, is discussion by the owners/developers and the planners in Lewisham about how this site can be developed to the benefit of Milford, Wealdfrost AND Sydenham.

Sydenham Town Forum

The Community Voice for London SE26 since 2004

Could the Greyhound become an M&S Simply Food?

Could the Greyhound become an M&S Simply Food?