VIBRANT* HIGH STREET

[leenewham]

Joanne, please read this:

Meetings and discussions about high streets are better if they are vibrant, exciting, passionate, lively and enthusiastic.

I've been in enough meetings with enough high street groups and local authorities to know that it makes a difference. When people care about an area, when people want to make it better, it has a far greater chance of changing.

Sydenham has very few empty shops in comparison to other high streets. I'm not sure we need a pop up program at the moment and they don't' have the funds for it.

I agree about the running and promotion of the markets. This obviously needs to improve as has been stated ad infinitum on this forum. I don't have an issue with the drumming workshops etc, they don't float my particular boat, but something happening is good. I prefer the market as it was, with food etc, I'd love for it to learn from Feast, which I think is a great market and community asset, but it's like banging your head against a brick wall at times.

So, positive ideas please.

[Joanne]

Good Luck

Back to focusing on what we are doing!

[Annie.]

Perhaps Art4 should be given a chance to "improve" the market?

[Pally]

I was hoping this may lead to some great idea to make things better, which is why I started with 'Create a culture of innovation and ideas, support it and great things will happen.'

Well done to Jonathan for getting involved, yet again, and making positive things happen.

So, what ideas do people have to create a vibrant* high street?

. Problems need to be defined, solutions formed and actions taken.

Ideas on a post…please

1. Yes well done to Jonathan and infact to all the people I am sure are working hard at trying to improve things

2. Sadly my impression is that exciting things like Morris Dancing wont bring in punters unless the basics are working in the market....and I don't think they are, as many have said on this forum. It doesn't seem to be growing.

Several times some basic suggestions have been made re stalls facing road; costs; market management group; tables to sit at; activities for young children ...but I have not seen any response from anyone involved in the present market management, unless I have missed them?

Several suggestions for looking at other markets that seem to be working have been made by Lee, Tim and others. ...but again no response from anyone involved as far as I can see. Has anyone involved in the market development visited other markets? Do they have other ideas? A plan? Is this SEE 3 or another group? Who is promoting it apart from Chris Best making announcements here? I am sure she has no time for more than that as Tim has pointed out in the past.

I have certainly seen Blackheath market go from strength to strength and go regualarly ( will visit Norwood after your comments Lee, sounds good) ...my observations about why working in Blackheath would be variety, tables to sit at, great atmosphere, busker type and other music, actively chatty stall holders, people taking wares out on " trays" into the high street, children attractions like balloons, colouring tables etc .....all positive ideas and I am sure more could be seen by visiting other markets. I have seen similar elsewhere.

Chris Best mentions that volunteers are always welcome to do publicity , hand out leaflets ...but if its not really working ....is there a point and I suspect interested people are wary of offering time unless there are opportunities to bring about change, working to galvanise local enthusiasm. I get no sense that those opportunities exist which is frustrating. (as you say Lee, banging heads and brick walls - and there is no attraction in that!!)
Bringing people in has to be to something worth coming to ...and activities like Morris dancing can help with that but only if the basic attraction is there.

A long post and its not meant to be negative. As I have said before I cant identify where the momentum is or how things can be moved on ...and my conversations with shopkeepers have sadly suggested disillusionment!

[Joanne]

Hi Lee,

I'm not hugely keen on receiving Direct Messages from you to air your views - I think it is far more helpful to keep the discussion to the Forum so that everyone can be included.

Otherwise we get a repeat problem.

My current conclusion is that it's probably best to even forget that SEE3 obtained Portas Pilot funding for Sydenham. They can't even be bothered to respond nor show accountability.

I don't think this means we start from scratch but a position of disillusionment which makes it harder - a sore but true outcome of the inexperienced managing an important opportunity/ initiative.

You now say that Sydenham doesn't need Pop Ups. I disagree and certainly occupying empty retail space is high up on the criteria in the Mayor of London's High Street Fund initiative.

Jumble sales are not.

Nor Morris Dancing.

These have no economic value to the High street. We need to introduce interesting shops with a broad appeal and if carefully selected with the right marketing, the aim would be to attract a new footfall/ shoppers.

Pop Up's do not cost that much money - I don't see why the 'forgotten SEE3' can't use the remaining funds they have to bring the right businesses together to form a collaboration and use the ex Floor Zone space.

This can be a Pop Up for Nov - Dec period.

They could end on a high instead of hiding away.

[leenewham]

I didn't say we don't need pop ups. I said I'm not sure we need it at the moment. I think there are other ways of attracting business to the high street.

Besides, as I keep saying, at present, SEE3 doesn't have funding for pop ups, they have finding for signage. It's ben given from a pot of money for signage.

How many of the pop up shops are now let Joanne, in Sydenham? How many are still empty?

They are voluntary. They have no paid staff and there dis some exciting stuff going on in Forest Hill, which is still part of SEE3.

You totally missed the point of my original post.

Floor zone was not available as a pop up, quite a few businesses tried to get the space and it could be a really exciting shop/cafe/restaurant. BUT IT WASN'T AVAILABLE. Why don't YOU try to make it a pop up rather than moaning all the time?

Blimey! Come on, at least try something. I did, somethings worked, some didn't. I learnt from it, so it was all valuable. If you are as passionate about high streets as you think, then get involved. Writing a letter to a group you spent most of your time having a go at on this forum offering your services isn't the way forward.

Plus this thread had some useful people who engaged with it and showed their voice. You killed it, which comes back to my first line on the OP.

The best way to get an area to change is to get people/traders etc involved and engaged, create an atmosphere of creativity, ideas and enthusiasm so the area has an atmosphere that it wants to change. Stifle that and people won't get involved or engaged and without people, things don't change.

[Joanne]

Everything which has been tried so far in SE26 has failed.

And Lee I feel you are suggesting more of the same.

That's my concern.

Improvement will require a strategic, logical and business minded approach to challenge the varying sets of problems.

Pop Ups should be one key component and I've set out the key criteria earlier in thread to ensure these work well.

We are happy to advise further if that's helpful- I think we did our first one in 1996- so have a lot of experience- including the best ways to convince Landlords.

We have considered running a Pop Up Gallery in Sydenham- but it's the wrong area for us. Had SEE3 initiatives in SE26 been successful then it would have been a consideration.

A shame- because we bring a wealthy customer base with us, invest a lot of time involving local businesses, source all our needs locally, put an emphasis on community involvement, commit to creating social value (in Partnership with various Social Enterprises), achieve high footfall and hold well attended events open to everyone.

Further we are one arm of a well connected network who will look to us for investment opportunities. We are currently looking for a place to set down roots

It won't be here! The level of defensiveness in the face of reality and naivety is thoroughly uninspiring.

Goodness knows how many times Lee has said 'Joanne have you tried...why don't you try Joanne...try it you might like it Joanne...I did, try...just try it, have you tried it Joanne'

Yep- that's how I know it didn't work Lee.

[Rachael]

The focus instead needs to be:

- An evaluation from SEE3 (as mentioned above)

- Improved Management of the Market (without gimmicks like Morris Dancing & Drumming workshops)- clearly does not bring in customers. It’s hardly conducive to a relaxing shopping experience either.

- Get an improved rolling Pop Up shop programme running & in time to hit busy trading period Nov-Dec inclusive

Everyone agrees the markets needs to be better managed. We don't know yet if the Morris Dancers will bring in more trade or not, do we? So let's see.

With regards to pop-ups - which empty units on Sydenham Road would you target? I agreed with your observations in early threads that the pop-ups were a bit scattered. But you can only have pop-ups where there are empty units.

[leenewham]

POP UPS LIST:

These were once all long term empty shops.

161 Kirkdale: Now let to funky cafe & bar, erectly due to pop ups.
Refurbished.

167 Sydenham Road: News coming soon
Refurbished.

5 Kent House Road: Rumoured to be an office, outside of high street but currently empty.
Refurbished.

172 Sydenham Road: let to long term tenant.
Refurbished.

4 Station Approach: Long term let
Refurbished.

49 London Road, Forest Hill The Butchery: Long term let with original pop up tenant.
Refurbished.

There was another one in Forest Hill but I can't find reference to that (it used to be the costume hire place).

[broken_shaman]

Everything which has been tried so far in SE26 has failed.

And Lee I feel you are suggesting more of the same.

That's my concern.

Improvement will require a strategic, logical and business minded approach to challenge the varying sets of problems.

Pop Ups should be one key component and I've set out the key criteria earlier in thread to ensure these work well.

We are happy to advise further if that's helpful- I think we did our first one in 1996- so have a lot of experience- including the best ways to convince Landlords.

We have considered running a Pop Up Gallery in Sydenham- but it's the wrong area for us. Had SEE3 initiatives in SE26 been successful then it would have been a consideration.

A shame- because we bring a wealthy customer base with us, invest a lot of time involving local businesses, source all our needs locally, put an emphasis on community involvement, commit to creating social value (in Partnership with various Social Enterprises), achieve high footfall and hold well attended events open to everyone.

Further we are one arm of a well connected network who will look to us for investment opportunities. We are currently looking for a place to set down roots

It won't be here! The level of defensiveness in the face of reality and naivety is thoroughly uninspiring.

Goodness knows how many times Lee has said 'Joanne have you tried...why don't you try Joanne...try it you might like it Joanne...I did, try...just try it, have you tried it Joanne'

Yep- that's how I know it didn't work Lee.

If your network is so great and your knowledge is so extensive, I'm struggling to see why you choose to tell us all that you're not putting anything into the area because SEE3 weren't successful or whatever.

Open your gallery. It will either be successful or not, but its success is not likely to hinge on the replies on this forum, which can't possibly represent or reflect the majority of views in SE26 or what SEE3 did or didn't do.

Sorry. But I'm not sure what it is you're adding to the conversation, aside from self-publicity.

[Joanne]

Hardly self publicity is it when I've posted on here knowing full well that I'd achieve the same old defences and criticism.

My posts have been constructive, given advice, offered help.

This hardly benefits me- trust I have plenty to do

So back to that!!

[Rachael]

Hi, Joanne - I don't know if you saw my post earlier, but I was asking what empty units you think would be good for pop-ups, given that Floor Zone is not available. And I'd be interested to know what initiatives you'd like to see apart from pop-ups. I think it's great that we have new businesses like The Calabash of Culture, Cherry and Ice, and On the Hoof Bistro on Sydenham Road. What would you suggest for building on that momentum? Apart from pop-ups.

[Joanne]

Hi, Joanne - I don't know if you saw my post earlier, but I was asking what empty units you think would be good for pop-ups, given that Floor Zone is not available. And I'd be interested to know what initiatives you'd like to see apart from pop-ups. I think it's great that we have new businesses like The Calabash of Culture, Cherry and Ice, and On the Hoof Bistro on Sydenham Road. What would you suggest for building on that momentum? Apart from pop-ups.

Hi Rachael,

Sorry for the delay in responding - that partly has to do with 'giving up'- thinking is there any point posting here.

But also I'm in a busy work period due to relocating our gallery. So if I'm honest I haven't had a chance to think through potential solutions properly or in depth other than of course keep saying we need Pop Ups.

How realistic any of these immediate thoughts are I have not explored, happy to be shot down too! but here may be some reasonable start points:

1. SEE3

• Ascertain SEE3's current level of involvement - who are the points of contact
• Establish from SEE3 Directors if there are any funds left, if yes then establish how much and what for and where E.G. Lee explains this is for signage. Then why hasn't it been used? Also it would be interesting to know exact allocations here plus is there flexibility of use. Who controls this etc?
• Most likely a new steering group is required.

2. Pop Ups

• I haven't counted the actual number of empty retail spaces there are on the High Street, but reckon it's important at this moment in time only to focus on those which are central
• We don't know for certain that ex-Floor Zone is not available. Syd Vintage were able to use as a Pop Up- that was after SEE3 started so why couldn't they secure the space? This is a Prime Space and the Landlord for a very, very long period has received no rental income, potentially great leverage there.
• Obtaining a good Pop Up opportunity does not rest on a phone call, a letter or even a good cause it requires a well thought through proposal sent direct to the Landlord. Certainly a proven track record with good references are helpful here. It has to be an attractive proposition to mutual benefit. Another route is via Letting Managers- but go to the top-it is vital then to demonstrate that you are self-sufficient, set up quickly, whatever the obstacles may be and not encroach on their time.
• Here is not the right place: but I'm happy to share examples of our proposals

3. Related Pop Up Ideas

• Naborhood Centre- it is central - I've not been inside but maybe there are possibilities there?
• The Ex Post Office another possibility?
• Estate Agents on Cobbs corner: Robinson Jackson- fantastic shop window frontage potential- get them involved in a concept?

4. Existing Shops/ Appearance of High Street

• I believe it is important to focus on these- for example I'd be lost without a £ shop.
• Similar to Lee's 'What If' initiative but different because I'm saying let's actually do it, invest in new signage if the shop keepers are on board. I can't imagine for one moment they wouldn't be if it has a chance of increasing business particularly if they are aware there is a greater and realistic plan involved. They might even pay themselves
• Our experience is that signage, the whole process (design too) takes 72 hours or less- costs £200- 250. If we can obtain approval from Grosvenor, Crown, Dulwich Estates etc etc then I suspect quite fine for SE26 too

I am conscious that I've not finished but must do some other things.
What I'd like people to know is that I'm more than happy to be part of a new or building on existing interested group to help create some action, momentum if that can be helpful.

[leenewham]

I'd love to know what sort of signage including design costs 250 pounds including design.

Can you enlighten us please with examples Joanne?

We have done a lot of signage and it's not a realistic figure unless you use stock letters on an existing background that you don't have to change and nothing else, which is along the lines of what we did for the Jill hub in Sydenham.

Engaging with shop owners for their signage can be long winded and difficult, even when they aren't paying! There is no point doing it if it's not good quality and a big improvement over the old one. They did that in the 80's and messed up the high street for ever more.

[louisecbrooks]

I usually aim not to get dragged into these SEE3 attacks, but I’d just like to clear up a few things.

Firstly regarding the old Floor Zone, repeated attempts were made to secure the shops along that parade. We finally met with a representative from the management company and were close to securing the space that Inkwa are now in, but Inkwa then started negotiations for the space, and we are of course delighted to have them in the high street. Floor Zone was not available at that time we were told because they were in negotiations with a long term tenant.

Syd’s Vintage were able to get into the space because they were sub-letting from the previous tenant. When the management company found out about this arrangement they had to leave.

A large number of businesses that have tried to secure shops in that row with long-term tenancies but have been unsuccessful. The landlord owns the flats above and the shops form part of their property portfolio; filling those shops seems to be low on their list of priorities. The guys in Sugarhill could probably fill you in on the history.

Regarding other shops at the top end of the high street there were similar stories which I'm not going to go into now suffice to say that comprehensive proposals were put together based on consultation with Meanwhile Space, who know a thing or two about securing empty units.

SEE3 is a group of volunteers, and the current Core Team is going through a period of transition because many of us don’t have the capacity to carry on. We all have other commitments just like Joanne does. I am leaving the Core Team as are a number of others although we will continue to try to support as best we can.

Because of limited capacity and limited support quite frankly (from Mayor of London/DCLG aka government dept, etc), it has at times been difficult to maintain momentum but we are trying to breathe life back into the group by calling out for new members for the Core Team, and by launching regular Town Team meetings: http://www.see3.co.uk/2014/10/see3-needs-you/. Details of Core Team members should be updated on the SEE3 website in the next few weeks (initial members should be already listed there), and we will announce who is leaving/joining etc.

With regard to reporting, all contractors have submitted their reports to the Mayor of London team, Lewisham Council and to SEE3 Core Team members. (And yes I was the contractor delivering the pop up shops from Oct 2013 - Oct 2014). We believe the Mayor of London team are in turn going to issue a report for our scheme, but I’m afraid I don’t fully understand what that entails at the moment. We have been discussing at length the best ways to report back so it will happen. These things just take time, particularly when involving public money and volunteers.

In terms of the success of the pop ups to date, as various other people have outlined before me it was never the intention that the pop up tenants stay long term. The aims were to provide an opportunity for businesses to trial their proposition on the high street, to attract footfall and significantly to stimulate interest from long-term tenants for empty units, the tenants being businesses that meet the needs of the community. As such I am really pleased to see the diverse businesses that have come to the high street since we started the scheme, many of whom we have approached or who approached us, and we have advised along the way. And we are still speaking with lots of other businesses keen to trade in the area so I hope we will see further effects.

Lee is right that 5 of the 9 units we used for a pop up have gone onto long-term tenants, with 2 others in negotiation and the final 2 weren't available to go to longterm tenants. And with a butchers, a Melbourne style wine bar and a carnival shop I think we achieved a bit of the diversity we were going for.

Lee, the other shop you were thinking of in Forest Hill is 10A Dartmouth Rd which was a boutique. That has been empty since because the landlord was extending the shop before moving in himself later this month: a Hunters franchise.

I would also like to point out that for the pop up shop scheme as well as the street art, we ran supper clubs, community parties at the Dolphin, club nights at Zanzibar (instrumental in leading to the revised business model currently being floated), and founded Forest Hill Fashion Week (which I have just finished voluntarily directing the fourth season of). Not to mention all the other great things other SEE3 projects achieved.

We now have an amazing network of local businesses and creatives that have fostered some brilliant collaborations, including my next project which I hope I will be able to unveil in the next week or so. Plus a really exciting arts project in the pipeline.

Going back to Lee’s original point on this thread for those of you that would like a platform to share your ideas and get stuck into projects that can improve our high streets please do come along to the Town Team meeting on 30 October where the main topic will be the Mayor of London’s recently announced High Street Fund. Location and time TBC.

This is really the last I would like to say on the subject; I am not going to be drawn into a spat, but I simply wanted to set the matter straight.

[Joanne]

I'd love to know what sort of signage including design costs 250 pounds including design.

Can you enlighten us please with examples Joanne?

We have done a lot of signage and it's not a realistic figure unless you use stock letters on an existing background that you don't have to change and nothing else, which is along the lines of what we did for the Jill hub in Sydenham.

Engaging with shop owners for their signage can be long winded and difficult, even when they aren't paying! There is no point doing it if it's not good quality and a big improvement over the old one. They did that in the 80's and messed up the high street for ever more.

Lee- you are so predictable.

I have been asked to produce ideas and sat down during a pretty hectic time here to try and think carefully. Rachael asked me questions and whilst I very nearly didn't respond, I then thought that would not be right.

I tried to keep systematic and produce a few ideas, not many I know but I wrote them down. Did not claim they were right or wrong, just areas to explore

You come along again, in typical defensive and small-minded mode

Yet:

The SE26 Shaman, the benevolent one, the sign guru.

If SEE3 had been successful then you would no doubt be awarding yourself accolades for that.
You are too involved- you take everything far too personal- you know far more about SEE3 than any of us do.

Signage:

We produce good quality signage which costs under £300- that includes measuring, the design, getting it made plus delivery and installation. This takes 72 hours.

It would be a whole different tedious and expensive ball game if we outsourced this. Just like we don't outsource our Pop Up needs to a management company- that is what happened with SEE3. They had literally not done any of this before yet the people who bid (good on them)- but failed because gave themselves the jobs. They literally had no experience, zero track record and instead of gaining insight say they were hindered due to red tape.

Since we are on the subject of signage Lee are you involved with On The Hoof? If I was opening up a business then I'd be extremely worried if I did not have signage up on Day 1 let alone weeks later.

I think their branding is great but also it is not right to use dark vinyl lettering on a shop window- it does not show up well at all.

[Joanne]

I usually aim not to get dragged into these SEE3 attacks, but I’d just like to clear up a few things.

Firstly regarding the old Floor Zone, repeated attempts were made to secure the shops along that parade. We finally met with a representative from the management company and were close to securing the space that Inkwa are now in, but Inkwa then started negotiations for the space, and we are of course delighted to have them in the high street. Floor Zone was not available at that time we were told because they were in negotiations with a long term tenant.

Syd’s Vintage were able to get into the space because they were sub-letting from the previous tenant. When the management company found out about this arrangement they had to leave.

A large number of businesses that have tried to secure shops in that row with long-term tenancies but have been unsuccessful. The landlord owns the flats above and the shops form part of their property portfolio; filling those shops seems to be low on their list of priorities. The guys in Sugarhill could probably fill you in on the history.

Regarding other shops at the top end of the high street there were similar stories which I'm not going to go into now suffice to say that comprehensive proposals were put together based on consultation with Meanwhile Space, who know a thing or two about securing empty units.

SEE3 is a group of volunteers, and the current Core Team is going through a period of transition because many of us don’t have the capacity to carry on. We all have other commitments just like Joanne does. I am leaving the Core Team as are a number of others although we will continue to try to support as best we can.

Because of limited capacity and limited support quite frankly (from Mayor of London/DCLG aka government dept, etc), it has at times been difficult to maintain momentum but we are trying to breathe life back into the group by calling out for new members for the Core Team, and by launching regular Town Team meetings: http://www.see3.co.uk/2014/10/see3-needs-you/. Details of Core Team members should be updated on the SEE3 website in the next few weeks (initial members should be already listed there), and we will announce who is leaving/joining etc.

With regard to reporting, all contractors have submitted their reports to the Mayor of London team, Lewisham Council and to SEE3 Core Team members. (And yes I was the contractor delivering the pop up shops from Oct 2013 - Oct 2014). We believe the Mayor of London team are in turn going to issue a report for our scheme, but I’m afraid I don’t fully understand what that entails at the moment. We have been discussing at length the best ways to report back so it will happen. These things just take time, particularly when involving public money and volunteers.

In terms of the success of the pop ups to date, as various other people have outlined before me it was never the intention that the pop up tenants stay long term. The aims were to provide an opportunity for businesses to trial their proposition on the high street, to attract footfall and significantly to stimulate interest from long-term tenants for empty units, the tenants being businesses that meet the needs of the community. As such I am really pleased to see the diverse businesses that have come to the high street since we started the scheme, many of whom we have approached or who approached us, and we have advised along the way. And we are still speaking with lots of other businesses keen to trade in the area so I hope we will see further effects.

Lee is right that 5 of the 9 units we used for a pop up have gone onto long-term tenants, with 2 others in negotiation and the final 2 weren't available to go to longterm tenants. And with a butchers, a Melbourne style wine bar and a carnival shop I think we achieved a bit of the diversity we were going for.

Lee, the other shop you were thinking of in Forest Hill is 10A Dartmouth Rd which was a boutique. That has been empty since because the landlord was extending the shop before moving in himself later this month: a Hunters franchise.

I would also like to point out that for the pop up shop scheme as well as the street art, we ran supper clubs, community parties at the Dolphin, club nights at Zanzibar (instrumental in leading to the revised business model currently being floated), and founded Forest Hill Fashion Week (which I have just finished voluntarily directing the fourth season of). Not to mention all the other great things other SEE3 projects achieved.

We now have an amazing network of local businesses and creatives that have fostered some brilliant collaborations, including my next project which I hope I will be able to unveil in the next week or so. Plus a really exciting arts project in the pipeline.

Going back to Lee’s original point on this thread for those of you that would like a platform to share your ideas and get stuck into projects that can improve our high streets please do come along to the Town Team meeting on 30 October where the main topic will be the Mayor of London’s recently announced High Street Fund. Location and time TBC.

This is really the last I would like to say on the subject; I am not going to be drawn into a spat, but I simply wanted to set the matter straight.

Sorry Louise but you are clueless

[leenewham]

Joanne, if you produce quality signage for 300 pounds in 72 hours, I would use you. I honestly would and could put a lot of work your way.

If you are serious about improving Sydenham, why not do your own project along the lines of what if Sydenham? At those prices you could transform Sydenham. It would do far more good than these posts, which feel angry and insulting Joanne.

On a positive note, I'm glad you like the branding we designed for on the hoof. The signage should be up soon at the bistro, its been a collaborative effort. It's a fantastic local business, you should try it. If you haven't, you are really missing out. The food is great, as is the interior and they are extremely supportive and active locally. We should encourage more businesses like them.

To set the record straight, I'm not part of, or am currently involved with see3. I have worked with them in the past. I merely want to set the record straight with the bits of knowledge I do have about them which respond to some of the posted comments.

[Joanne]

Joanne, if you produce quality signage for 300 pounds in 72 hours, I would use you. I honestly would and could put a lot of work your way.

If you are serious about improving Sydenham, why not do your own project along the lines of what if Sydenham? At those prices you could transform Sydenham. It would do far more good than these posts, which feel angry and insulting Joanne.

On a positive note, I'm glad you like the branding we designed for on the hoof. The signage should be up soon at the bistro, its been a collaborative effort. It's a fantastic local business, you should try it. If you haven't, you are really missing out. The food is great, as is the interior and they are extremely supportive and active locally. We should encourage more businesses like them.

To set the record straight, I'm not part of, or am currently involved with see3. I have worked with them in the past. I merely want to set the record straight with the bits of knowledge I do have about them which respond to some of the posted comments.

I'm not planning to set up a signage company.

Out of genuine interest how much did it cost you to do the SEE3 signage (each) and the Jill shop one?

You have asked me yet again to 'try' something. I'm not 3 years old

Also:

I'm not going to sit around wasting my time doing 'What If' projects - which any one with half a brain can do on Photoshop.
It is quite simply boring

Sign Guru:

What's happening with OTH signage? What on earth can the holdup be? There were weeks of renovation, why was this not sorted out then? Why the dark vinyl lettering on the window?

[leenewham]

I didn't do the see3 signage. I did the design work for the hubs signage initially, but i didn't do the shops. I never said I did.

I didn't design the window graphic in on the hoof.