Improved Sydenham Hill train services

Greg Whitehead · Post by **Greg Whitehead** » 19 Apr 2007 21:50

With the iminent re-routing of the Eurostar (I guess this is a question for yourself Nasaroc?) will this mean an increase in services through Sydenham Hill? Katherine and I were in Brixton the other evening and whilst waiting at the platform to travel home to Sydenham Hill/Penge East there only seemed to be a 52 and 22 minutes past the hour service. There were plenty of Eurostar trains going to and fro and I wondered if this would mean more frequent services to Victoria once the Eurostar terminates in St Pancras and doesn't hardly use the Kent link?

This would surely be a great boon for the area and maybe relieve some of the pressure on the Sydenham to London Bridge route (even just a little?).

Pat Trembath · Post by **Pat Trembath** » 20 Apr 2007 07:48

As the Sydenham Society understands it, when Eurostar services transfer to St Pancras in November this year the tracks previously used by the international servces will be used by South Eastern to provide additional capacity on the network.

We understand 34 extra trains will operate between Victoria and Beckenham Junction on weekdays and 48 additional trains on Saturdays. In effect this should mean two additional trains during operating hours will stop at Sydenham Hill and Penge East - as you say, a great boon to the area while, hopefully, relieving some pressure at Sydenham.

The autumn timetable is eagerly awaited

robotfish · Post by **robotfish** » 20 Apr 2007 12:54

Some more going to and from Blackfriars would be a pleasant surprise too.

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » 5 Sep 2007 10:15

Southeastern say that they will be increasing services, but no indication of by how much - see link:
http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/ne ... u=news.php

Does anyone know anything more?

kster · Post by **kster** » 6 Sep 2007 14:20

A bit more long term, but the following consultation document outlines future plans, as they currently stand, for this and other lines in the area.

http://www.southernrailway.com/news.php ... =index.php

There is also the opportunity for you to put your opinion forward.

Bovine Juice · Post by **Bovine Juice** » 14 Oct 2007 11:47

Hi

Does anyone have any more info on this increase in train services on the Orpington line? It's not clear from either the South Eastern Trains site of the posts here whether all stations on the route will receive an improved serivice. It'd be a Godsend to me and my family as I work in Victoria and my son goes to school in Orpington but we live in Kent House area. Both he and I waste a large part of our lives waiting for these packed half hourly trains to leave.

Bovine Juice · Post by **Bovine Juice** » 3 Nov 2007 12:15

The new timetable has been announced. Loads more trains during the day (every 15 minutes till about 8ish) but strangely at obvious key times like 5 and 6 in victoria there's no extra ones because Blackfriars takes the extra ones already... And the lack of more after 8 means still lots of hanging around at Vic for the late ones.

Mixture of being pleased and disappointed.

Bovine Juice · Post by **Bovine Juice** » 3 Nov 2007 12:36

Here's the timetable

Just noticed that there's no extra services on the early Vic to Orpington srun and they've shunted them back by 13 minutes too - means my son's train now gets dangerously close to registration time. Grrrr!

nasaroc · Post by **nasaroc** » 4 Nov 2007 17:57

I agree that the new timetable isn't perfect - approximately three trains per hour during rush hours and four trains during off peak. But it's still a vast improvement on what went before.

We clearly need at least four trains per hour during rush hours. Kster has pointed out (above) that future timetables on this line are dependant on a Rail Utilisation Study (a timetable review, in common terms) which is currently happening for all trains in the region.

If you wish to put forward arguments to the RUS follow the link that Kster has provided.

nasaroc · Post by **nasaroc** » 4 Nov 2007 19:07

I've now had a change to study the new timetable in more detail. Can I apologise for describing the new timetable as a "vast" improvement on the old.

For off peak travellers the new timetable is a huge improvement - roughly double the trains (four trains instead of the current two) running in both directions between Penge East and Victoria.

For the rush hour commuter the timetable has barely changed. Indeed, it could be said to be worse particularly on trains coming back from Victoria in the evening. There is a 30 minute gap in the timetable between 17.52 and 18.21 from Victoria - right at the peak of rush hour travel (!) and there are only two trains between 8 pm and 9pm (previously three) as Bovine Juice has pointed out.

Great if you travel during the day but a pretty mixed bag if you are a commuter.

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » 5 Nov 2007 13:23

Like others I'm a bit disappointed to see no improvements to morning & evening peak rush hour services. However, I welcome the extra trains after the 18.21 until the 19.52. I also think that the better links to the Eurostar terminal is good news (via the Victoria line to Victoria station or the direct service to Herne Hill). My understanding is that services from Victoria between 8 & 9pm remains unchanged at 2.

I've no idea how these particular changes were arrived at (was it a lucky dip?) or how the views of users were obtained (if at all). The link to the consultation rail utilisation strategy is interesting, if somewhat dense at 224 pages! I think, based on a quick skim, that it proposes additional services on the Bromley South - London Victoria route from 2009, although I'm not entirely sure if they would stop at Sydenham Hill/Penge East (see pages 7 & 12).

Bovine Juice · Post by **Bovine Juice** » 6 Nov 2007 08:41

These new timetables have to be about maximising profit and nothing to do with improving services for regular travellers. Most people travelling at peak times will be commuters with season tickets. SE Trains have their money already and they will continue to use the service regardless of how poor it is. Those travelling at off-peak will be a mixture of shift working commuters and day trippers. The things that are most likely to put day trippers from travelling are busy trains or infrequent services. SE Trains think they've sorted out these problems with this timetable. Us commuters will continue to be short changed. And I really am gutted about the lack of more trains late at night and the shifting of train times to Orpington first thing. My son, aged 11, will probably now have to leave the house at 7.15 at the latest to get to school. Childhood is too short as it is without wasting it hanging around a cold and empty playground.

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » 11 Dec 2007 17:56

I have used the 08:29 from Sydenham Hill to Victoria both today and Monday and I am rather annoyed that there are now fewer carriages (two less I think) so that there is now considerable over-crowding. Is this the case for other morning peak services? Is there any chance of getting our missing carriages back?

davegr · Post by **davegr** » 21 Dec 2007 15:27

I wondered why the 8:29 was so crowded recently. I assumed it might have been due to cancellation of other trains. There seems to be an awful lot of people getting off at Brixton that never used to.

davegr · Post by **davegr** » 9 Jan 2008 09:35

Sydenham Hill trains are getting even more crowded. On the 8.29 by the time we got to Herne Hill it was so rammed people couldn't get on. What is going on?

Strange thing is around a third of the carriage I was in got off at Brixton returning the numbers to around the same as there used to be prior to timetable changes. Is there some maintenance work somewhere meaning more people are using this service than usual?

Are the trains really shorter? I've not noticed it myself.

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » 31 Jan 2008 12:17

I went along to the "meet the manager" session at Victoria station this morning, where I spoke to one of the managers about the reduction in the number of carriages on the 08.29 service on this route (Sydenham Hill to Victoria) compared with the 08.28 service which ran until the timetable change in December. He said that the company monitor passenger numbers so that more carriages are sometimes added to busier services and (as in this case) taken off less busy services. He said that I was not the first person to complain about this service, and suggested that their own figures (which suggested to them that the service until December might have had relatively few passengers and is now well within capacity) might not give a complete picture as to how busy the service actually is. So I think they have now taken note that there is too much overcrowding but we will have to wait and see if they actually do anything. Overall, it was a useful opportunity to make my views known and I would encourage more passengers to do the same.

roundasapound · Post by **roundasapound** » 2 May 2008 07:18

I've never used Sydenham Hill station but if it's anything like Lower Sydenham it's a complete waste of time and a battle every morning to get on the train.

Running a service every 30 mins in rush hour is ridiculous.

Sometimes I wonder if southeastern should just rip out all the seats and go for standing only carriages, because more people are standing than sitting anyway.

All they want to do is maximise profits regardless of the service and impact it has on paying customers.

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » 6 May 2008 09:14

Here is the new timetable that starts from May 18th. Currently the 18:21 from Victoria is very packed because the previous train leaves at 17:52 - the good news is that there will be an additional train at 18:02.

Sadly there is no change to the morning service timetable. I hope that we get more 8 carriage trains but I can't say I'm holding my breath.

http://southeastern.go-cms.co.uk/conten ... ble_85.pdf

Bovine Juice · Post by **Bovine Juice** » 8 May 2008 18:11

Interesting. That train service exists now but is semi fast and goes from Herne Hill straight to Beck J. It must be currently half empty. Unlike the 18.21.....

Greg Whitehead · Post by **Greg Whitehead** » 10 Oct 2008 10:28

davegr wrote:I wondered why the 8:29 was so crowded recently. I assumed it might have been due to cancellation of other trains. There seems to be an awful lot of people getting off at Brixton that never used to.

I've noticed that also davegr. I think people (well I can only talk for myself here) might have realised that if you're intending to use the Victoria line it's better to get off at Brixton and sit on the almost empty train rather than take part in the crush that often happens at Victoria itself? I write this only as most people (from what I can see) seem to disappear down into the tube when they alight at Brixton

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Improved Sydenham Hill train services

Improved Sydenham Hill train services