Zanzibar Public Meeting: 14th August

[gillyjp]

I would hope someone has taken ample film footage of these events?

you cannot argue with evidence on film whereas there will be plenty of verbal rebuttal and denial from the other side.
It'd be hard for them to film a peaceful exit of their patrons from the sound of it.

Conker - we saw ample footage at the last licensing review which the police themselves put forward for the panel to see.

With regards to the latest anti social behaviour from Friday night/Saturday early morning 8/9th August, I really don't fancy my chances as a lone woman, going out at that ungodly hour with my mobile phone, taking videos, whilst loads of intimidating, excitable, boozed up people gather at the top of Spring Hill/Kirkdale.

Hopefully the Lewisham ASB/Licensing team would have done some undercover video-ing surely?

[Conker]

Yes, I can understand that.

If this place was a pub its license would have been revoked years ago,no problem.

[Eagle]

I know the Met have not got enough resources at times. However they are surely aware of the hooliganism and violence occurring Friday and Saturday nights ( sorry Sat and Sun mornings ) , that on one occasion they could come in force and mass arrest perpetrators.

Surely not too much for the poor residents to expect.

[Conker]

that on one occasion they could come in force and mass arrest perpetrators.

then they 'll riot.

[Eagle]

Walked by Cobb's a couple of times yesterday. How the mighty have fallen.

Back in 50's it was the poshest place in Sydenham . Now the whole building , including the , so called ,
Tanganyika night and morning club is the pits. Walter would turn in this grave. How has this happened.

[Conker]

I have fond memories of Cobbs store, you could get anything there, I think the night club was used for wedding receptions and other genteel occasions.

what happened? its customer profile changed and we became the society of today.
Frankly Sydenham people no longer used it enough to keep it in business, and "genteel folk " [for want of a better term] either moved out or died out.
Nature, abhorring a vacuum, has moved in people who would rather pee in your door way and stab you.

Frankly when I read these pages I am very glad I got out when I did, the Sydenham I was born into and grew up in seems to be not a nice place any more.

[Eagle]

Conker

Whilst agreeing Sydenham was more genteel in the 50's and 60's , I cannot agree that is has gone totally down hill.

Hopefully stabbing is very occasional whilst peeing in doorways very inconvenient.

Some things are worse than 50 years ago and some better.

Cobb's though most certainly worse. How could we let such am proud building degenerate into a venue for dubious porn etc .
If the Uganda allowed to stay should be 11pm closing at latest. This must be the very latest the locals have to endure this barbaric behaviour.

[Annie.]

Uganda

[Eagle]

Annie

Sorry slip of the fingers.

I am puzzled why they call it after an island ( which was enchanged with Germany in 1890 for Heligoland ) which prior to that had a record of slavery to Arabia.

They should have called it Heligoland, or German Bight.

[Annie.]

Haha, no, I like Uganda!

[Conker]

Do you think he's old enough to get the Uganda joke Annie?


Eagle, I use google street view a lot to travel my old haunts from this chair. I grew up between Sydenham hill, Wells park Sydenham High street,
frankly the place especially Kirkdale is a run-down tatty, flyblown characterless slum compared to when I knew it.

Sydenham high street, is not a lot better, sorry but that's my view of it today.

Wells Park road seems to be a ghetto

power to those who are trying to do something about it, but silk purses and pigs ears come to mind.
hopefully some kind of order will come out of the chaos.

[Eagle]

Conker
I grew up in Venner Road , but went to schools in Wells Park Road , Kirkdale and Dacres Road.


I can recall , about 62 ,we had to , as a school project , go down Sydenham Rd asking the shopkeepers whether they were sole traders , partnerships etc etc. Everyone polite except the Helen Shapiro look alike in The Record Forum , who was none too polite.
I wish I could find my note book to see how the High Street has changed over 52 years.

One thing that has changed is the big increase in tubbies.

[Nigel]

I went I the meeting last night . It was well chaired by Chris Best and reasonably attended .
The Zanzibar owner and manager are without doubt paying lip service to any improvement . The view of the meeting was that not only should the appeal against reducing closing time to 2am be upheld but everyone wanted the licence revoked altogether .
I was probably the only person not directly affected as I felt so sorry for those locals whose quality of life has been hammered by this completely ineffectual management team and their loathsome punters .
I sincerely hope it closes .
A very good evening
Nigel

[Eagle]

Well done for going Nigel.

I cannot see any appeal will do anything but revoke the license totally , or as last resort 11pm.

Any other result would be an insult to the many residents whose life is being made a complete misery.

[Gaddison]

I also attended, and totally agree with Nigel. Clear that the owner and manager were paying lip service at best to residents. Clear from the meeting that things have deteriorated if anything since new management in post, and they gave no convincing strategies of how they would improve things, or indeed be able to exert any adequate control on such a large number of drunk, partying people, at such unsocial hours in a densely residential area. It was clear they are hell bent only on the 2-5am model, attracting people kicked out of other venues when they close, and clearly demonstrated no ambition to engage with the local community to develop an acceptable business model. I believe now the licence should be removed all together, which I understand is one option open to the magistrate.

[Annie.]

I wonder if the owner/manager will comment on the meeting also? Then we will get opinions from both sides.

[corvid]

@Gaddison & @Nigel - I completely agree with you both.

The new owner and manager openly admitted at the meeting that their business model depends entirely on the 2-5am slot. They are clearly only interested in scooping up the profits from being the last ditch saloon of south east London. The fact that this is a source of uttery misery for many local residents is not even a factor in their consideration, despite paying their deluded lip service that they think they can deal with the issues.

The fact remains that the noise and antisocial issues surrounding the club are far, far beyond their control. There's nothing they can do about it. Whatsmore, I'm sure they know this.

Handing out lollipops (one of their current key strategies)? Sure - nice try, but that isn't going to cut it. Relying on a handful of traffic stewards to ask hundreds of drunk people with compromised hearing after a night of exposure to loud music to keep the noise down? Yeah, right. You may as well try and block a flooding dam with a cork.

I used to support the 2am licence on the basis that potentially some good could come of it with a bit of diversification, but I would now love nothing more than to see the doors close on that place for good.

Regrettably I won't be able to attend the Bromley hearing as I am out of the country, but I have written to Lewisham licensing with a detailed explanation of why I have withdrawn any support for a licence of any kind, with a focus on the deterioration in the situation since the change in ownership.

As an aside, I heard that when they took over the lease they weren't aware there was a review going on. Hilarious! I find it hard to believe that anyone taking over an entertainment business could be so shortsighted as not to check such fundamentals as the solidity of the licence, but if indeed that is the case, then I do pity them for what is a very, very bad business decision.