Advice Needed - Trying to Save Old Coach House

[JoT]

Hi
I'm new to posting, but have been viewing this site for some years and have lived in Sydenham since 2001 - 4 years the Lewisham side and 6 at the Bromley end of Lawrie Park Road.

I've been given the thumbs up to post about an old coach house that is under threat of demolition and for 5 three storey house to be build behind our lovely flats. The planning comes under Bromley not Lewisham, but would greatly appreciate any advice anyone may be able to offer in determining the period of the coach house.

A couple of pictures below. The building was pebble dashed at some point which doesn’t help and makes it look newer than it is. The coaching arches have also been converted in two garages and would have originally run though from one side to the other.





The building is shown on an 1864 map, but i can not determine when it was built. I have been able to find out that prior to our flats being completed in 1936 the building was called The Lodge and staff for Villa Slamat lived there. Villa Slamat was built after 1852 on land owned by George Wythes who purchased the land from The Crystal Palace Company. I am not sure if it is contemporary to Villa Slamat or even older. I also think the Croydon Canal would have run yards away from the coach house at one time and i would also be interested if anyone could confirm if a depression running between mature trees (180 plus years old) next to the railway lines at the back of the property is a remnant of the canal.

I'd be more than happy for anyone to view the area. Any conservationist, local historians or anyone with an interest, please let me know.

JoT

[marymck]

Is this application 11/00926/OUT - The Cottage, Fountain Court, Lawrie Park Road ?

If so this is the link to Bromley's website, where anyone can view details of the application and leave comments:

http://planning.bromley.gov.uk/online-a ... KBABT0DU00

Steve Grindlay will know more about the history of the site. I'll e-mail him.

If it's the one I'm thinking of it was discussed very briefly at the last Syd Soc Conservation Committee meeting, but at that time the details of the application weren't available. I may be wrong and be thinking of something else entirely ... I'll check.

[JoT]

Is this application 11/00926/OUT - The Cottage, Fountain Court, Lawrie Park Road ?

If so this is the link to Bromley's website, where anyone can view details of the application and leave comments:

http://planning.bromley.gov.uk/online-a ... KBABT0DU00

Steve Grindlay will know more about the history of the site. I'll e-mail him.

If it's the one I'm thinking of it was discussed very briefly at the last Syd Soc Conservation Committee meeting, but at that time the details of the application weren't available. I may be wrong and be thinking of something else entirely ... I'll check.

Thank you for your comments. Yes it is that application and thank you for posting the link.

I've emailed Steve and i have also posted my objections to Bromley too. I'm hoping to complete an application to English Heritage for the 'Cottage' (name changed from 'The Lodge' post war), but need to know more facts to support the application.

I'd love to see the property inhabited and cared for once again.

The property is behind Fountain Court, which is next to 79 (Lichfield House) on Lawrie Park Road.

[Dorian]

JoT,

What are your objections ? Is it the loss of the old building because of its potential heritage value ?

[JoT]

JoT,

What are your objections ? Is it the loss of the old building because of its potential heritage value ?

As a group of residence we have raised a number of objections, which i am happy to share with you if you are interested, but are complex. My personal concern for some time (prior to planning app being submitted) is the biodiversity and conservation. Next to the old lodge was a wonderful wooded area that someone has claimed possessory title over. They have destroyed the wooded area by chopping down trees and bulldozing/ levelling the land. Up to that point we had returning nesting Tawny Owls, stag beetles, slow worms and may other wild creatures which are priority species. The person renting the old lodge sadly went in a nursing home about 18 months ago and since then it has started to determinate from neglect.

I would very much in deed want to explore the potential heritage value of the old building and potential have it listed by English Heritage.

JoT

[JoT]

Is this application 11/00926/OUT - The Cottage, Fountain Court, Lawrie Park Road ?

If so this is the link to Bromley's website, where anyone can view details of the application and leave comments:

http://planning.bromley.gov.uk/online-a ... KBABT0DU00

Steve Grindlay will know more about the history of the site. I'll e-mail him.

If it's the one I'm thinking of it was discussed very briefly at the last Syd Soc Conservation Committee meeting, but at that time the details of the application weren't available. I may be wrong and be thinking of something else entirely ... I'll check.

What a wonderful man Steve is! Some fabulous information and documents to support the English Heritage application.

[robumney]

I am very interested in the outcome of this application for purely family historical reasons.

In 1891 my great-grandfather Charles UMNEY owned Eardley House at 81 Lawrie Park Rd (it was number 2, but the road was re-numbered in 1897). I believe this building was demolished in 1980 and Ashleigh Court was built.
My maternal great-grandfather Roelof ZEEDERBERG owned Lichfield House at 79 Lawrie Park Rd.
In 1897 Charles' son and Roelof's daughter married and became my grandparents.

Please do all you can to maintain what remains of the old coach house.

Rob Umney
Woodford, Australia

[Dorian]

I dont see how this application could be granted a consent.

I do not however think that the Building will be listed as it has been ruined over the years by the alterations mentioned previously.

The application is outline and therefore is only to esablish the principle of development and access. Clearing the wooded area could be seen as in fact enhancing the habitat quality for a more diverse number of species than you mentioned and I would suggest that Bromley will ak the applicant for an ecology survey. There is no information on how emergency vehicles are to enter the site and turn within it.

If built the houses on the Possesery title land would be very dificult for buyers to mortgage as most lenders require " absolute" title. The rights of way granted to the land by the Freeholders of Fountains court is for only 80 years from 2003. Not that long really.

There are lots of valid planning reasons that this application should fail on and I would be most surprised if the case officer at Bromley supports it.

[Eagle]

I object on the principle that we need the green spaces between buildings to make the land liveable.

Too much building already in Sydenham

Good Luck...............

[JoT]

Many thanks to the information and advice received from people. I have made an English Hertitage application based on tthe information Steve gave me and others. I have also added that John Norton, the artitact who designed the Crystal Palace Road Houses lived at Lichfield House and that the coach house was the staff residence for the house at that time.

Fingures crossed.

JoT