More clarity on library options?

[Tim Lund]

On the Syd Soc site there is a good piece from Bryan Leslie commenting on Sir Steve's recent article on library closures -
http://www.sydenhamsociety.com/2011/02/ ... e-bullock/

Contained within it is this:

However a more considered and thoughtful proposal has been put to the Council in which it is argued, with supporting figures, that if the proposed cuts were spread across the entire library service then all libraries could remain open albeit with each providing a somewhat reduced service. The Council’s response? Silence.

Does anyone have more details on this proposal? Is it possible that if it was more widely known, the Council would find it less easy to ignore?

[Hill Dweller]

Contained within it is this:

However a more considered and thoughtful proposal has been put to the Council in which it is argued, with supporting figures,

Not being sarcastic but I'd also be interested in the supporting figures of the alternative proposal!

[Robin Orton]

'As a student, I wrestled with Hegelian Dialectical materialism beneath the dome of Leeds University’s magnificent Brotherton Library...', says Sir Steve, in order to establish his credibility as a library buff. Hegel a materialist? It can't have been a very good library!

[Tim Lund]

Probably just denial about ever having read Marx ...

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Hill Dweller]

It can't have been a very good library!

Harumph ....... Leeds Uni has always been one of the best, not just imo.
Google is your friend Robin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_materialism

Lots of tongue twisters there

[simon]

No Hilldweller, Google isn’t needed if you have even just a passing knowledge of nineteenth century philosophy, which Robin obviously has, and Sir Steve appears not to have
“Hegelian dialetictical materialism” is a contradiction in terms as Hegel was an idealist. Marx took Hegel’s idealist dialectic and reversed it so that matter determined mind rather than the other way round.
I agree with Tim, sadly, that Sir Steve was searching for a pseudo intellectual justification for his position without reference to Marx and failed dismally.
I think it was Plekhanov who said you couldn’t understand dialectic materialism without reading chapter nine of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right. I have done so and I suspect that was what Sir Steve was doing in the Leeds library.
Incidentally, it wasn’t Marx who first figured out a materialist critique of Hegel but Joseph Dietzgen, who has been airbrushed out of socialist history on account of him being a bit too libertarian and being genuinely working class.

Anyway, for all his library time; I would doubt that Plekhanov, Marx, Dietzgen or even Hegel would have supported Sir Steve in closing the library

[Hill Dweller]

Mind me accusing you of being pedantic simon?

Possibly as pedantic as Robin?

Mebbe even as happy about the change in topic ie: from library options to the Mayor?


BTW, I'm happy to have very little interest in the politics of materialism of any sort, happy to have the prejudice I have of millionaires that have NO experience at all about the need to make decisions in personal budgets and NO knowledge at all about real volunteers that work at ground level, not at the echelons that Mummy might have revelled in.


Late edit: The above refers to Dave's Mummy (who's been used by him), not yours.

[Hill Dweller]

Anyway, for all his library time; I would doubt that Plekhanov, Marx, Dietzgen or even Hegel would have supported Sir Steve in closing the library

I disagree.
Whether we like them or not these are pragmatic decisions.

When (like now) people are able to buy their books for pennies from charity shops/WHS or on their kindles (or whatever they're called) there's little point imhoo whingeing about the choices of where to do the swingeing.

NOT unless there is some honesty about at whose feet the blame for it all lies.



Late edits ..... with an eye to post qties that occupy a few critics
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00y8v0r
Very interesting convo that will be on Listen Again in a few minutes

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[Hill Dweller]

I'm posting this (from the link in the OP) for the benefit of someone who had not heard (as I had) that the closure of Sydenham Library was temporary and to do with H&S matters ......................

In the case of Sydenham Library, the Mayor also argued that the building was in such poor condition that it required substantial, and unaffordable, investment. That argument – which turned out to be based on a dubious assessment of repair costs – was especially annoying since such repair work as was needed had arisen because of a Council failure, over a number of years, properly to maintain the building. (It’s worth noting, by the way, that the 2009 Mayor’s Commission, to which Mayor Bullock refers, did not recommend any library closures).


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[leenewham]

To clarify HD, are you saying that the library will ONLY be closed temporally and not permanently?

The library was closed a while ago due to H&S which is why it has a lot of plastic inside it on the walls. But the council are looking to 'dispose of the building' (their words) to cut costs. Hopefully that wont happen. But that isn't temporary. The council would like someone else to take over the building and run the library, but the issue here is that by the councils own figures, unless it it still part of the library system, buying books etc is expensive.

[Hill Dweller]

Hi Lee, I was told at FHL, as posted previously, that the closure of Sydenham was temporary due to H&S concerns. Given the negativity about the state of the building, which 'Lewisham has allowed it to reach', I'd have thought that was reassuring for people.

It hasn't occurred to me that the librarian was lying or to check their info for any other reason but if anyone else needs to, I suggest speaking to the horse's mouth as it were, the council dept, not to in-betweeners.

There's so much hysteria around the subject, so much kneejerky-blaming of the wrong parties, some of it genuinely felt but some of it not so imhoo, that direct comms are needed for whoever still has doubts.

The link I placed earlier, just before 1pm, was an hour-long programme about the topic and included an interview with the leader of Doncaster's Council, which has even worse problems and priorities than ours.

[Hill Dweller]

....... but the issue here is that by the councils own figures, unless it it still part of the library system, buying books etc is expensive.

Quite so, as is most of the infrastructure / materials work that most voluntary groups engage in. Their time and effort might be FoC but what they need to work with isn't ..... a basic fact that the likes of ***spit*** the national govt clearly have no clue about, despite all the frothy white dribbling about 'Big Society'. We had a Govt that invested in society, in today's children, we haven't got one any more. 80s and early 90s all over again .....


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