Has our Town Pub been demolished?

Post by **admin** » 31 Aug 2015 11:15

Nope. You can still see it if you are logged in.

There have been no postings to the Town Benefit Office for nearly two months so I have decided to merge it back into Town Pub. All the posts are still visible to registered users.

I did this because TP/TBO seem to be degenerating into repetitive and circuitous arguments between a small number of members. I have no desire to restrict this but I have been made aware these debates are discouragement for people who know of the forum to actually join and partake. Now they won't have that excuse until its too late!

Admin

Robin Orton · Post by **Robin Orton** » 31 Aug 2015 14:38

Oh dear. I could see this coming. We, its customers, have trashed a splendid institution..

So no longer a Town Public House, but a Town Speakeasy or Town Shebeen. Knock three times and ask for Eagle. Not sure I fancy the idea. I doubt whether I shall become a regular customer.

Tim Lund · Post by **Tim Lund** » 31 Aug 2015 15:08

I failed to resist the temptation to make a response to Eagle just now, but I don't expect either to be making any more contributions to discussions in the Pub as long as it's for signed in members only.

I was thinking of writing something anyway with the subject line "Far from the Madding Crowd" about the sense of despair I'm feeling ATM with the current infatuation in various quarters with Jeremy Corbyn, and all the bad economics which is bandied around, not just by his enthusiasts, and certainly not just here, which has reached the point of just not wanting to have to take any more of it. It parallels a moment I frequently encounter reading a novel or watching something on TV, when a character I've come to sympathise with is about to do something really stupid, and I give up. It's just happening again, rereading "Far from the Madding Crowd", with Bathsheba about to fall for Sergeant Troy, but now it feels like a metaphor for the Labour Party, and all its new members as yet innocent of the blinding power of political enthusiasm. Sadly, I see no Gabriel Oak to provide any happy ending.

To return to the OP, I do appreciate the conflicting pressures Admin has to deal with.

Pally · Post by **Pally** » 31 Aug 2015 17:52

admin wrote:
I did this because TP/TBO seem to be degenerating into repetitive and circuitous arguments between a small number of members. I have no desire to restrict this but I have been made aware these debates are discouragement for people who know of the forum to actually join and partake. Now they won't have that excuse until its too late!

Admin

I have to agree about the circuitous arguments which are off putting to other potential posters ....but I am not sure why the TB/TPO merger might help with the problem? I expect I am missing the point!

Post by **admin** » 31 Aug 2015 22:17

Pally, this is a forum about Sydenham. Hopefully the content here will attract more people and posts. Town Pub is there in case people want to extend their conversations and/or be a little more brusque than in the community bits. When it becomes the tail wagging the dog and dissuades people from joining - I should try and do something.

The something doesn't add any restrictions. The guidelines remain the same. Its as free as ever. For newcomers who have yet to join STF the change will hopefully sharpens the focus on what the forum is primarily about. Bit of smoke and mirrors if you like.

Admin

Nigel · Post by **Nigel** » 31 Aug 2015 22:22

Admin
I have done you the courtesy of posting here rather than in the Town Pub which is now members only for some reason.
Please could you explain why you feel the need for the Town pub thread to be accessible only by registered users , which it is now is .
The Town BO point is irrelevant , I just don't see why you should , effectively , lock the post .
In the meantime , if anyone is interested , please see my thread in Town Stadium on how the higher education sector is undermining all efforts to re-frame islamic supremicism and our much needed endeavour to support moderate muslims that wish to distance themselves from fascism.
A very good evening
Nigel

Post by **admin** » 31 Aug 2015 22:40

Nigel,

I have explained the reason three times. You are free to disagree or suggest a better one but asking me to repeat myself yet again is not helpful as, being less loquacious than you in the words department, it probably won't be any clearer. Buying me a beer in a real pub might be a more effective and enjoyable method of taking this forward.

There is absolutely no change to what people can post or who can post. I locked the 'mad' TP thread with an explanation so that this subject can be discussed in one place, not two after HB had pointed you to this thread. Is that a problem?

Admin

Rachael · Post by **Rachael** » 1 Sep 2015 06:24

I have no problem with this decision. Most regular users are logged in to post. They will see the Town Pub as normal. People searching for Sydenham issues, perhaps thinking of moving here, won't see the more robust discussions. That's probably a good thing, as it means admin can continue his light-touch policy there, without worrying that new users might be scared off. This means less Admin moderation in the Pub, not more. It's a win-win.

And let's not forget, this is Admin's forum. It's a (benevolent) dictatorship, not a democracy. *tugs forelock*

Eagle · Post by **Eagle** » 1 Sep 2015 08:31

I do not have a major problem with it just surprised that as the third most popular on the Board Index it has been shunted
to a weird place.

Indeed Lost and Found , which retains its spot , only has five posts . The others also are well below.

In the light of the most democratic example of the Peoples Party maybe a vote of members would have been an idea!!!!!!!

Nigel · Post by **Nigel** » 1 Sep 2015 10:48

Admin
In the interest of presenting a cohesive united and harmonious face to the world beyond Sydenham , as Rachel points out , I can see why you have done this .

A kind of friendly Kim Jong Admin .
As long as you don't post grandiose diatribes about how tractor production in Sydenham exceeds perfidious Penge by 200% or how wheat production from Tim's allotment will feed us all without imports from the decadent West ( Norwood ) you'll hear no voice of dissidence from me.
A very good morning
Nigel

leenewham · Post by **leenewham** » 1 Sep 2015 14:31

Did if get knocked down and turned into over priced, ugly, tiny flats?

Tim Lund · Post by **Tim Lund** » 1 Sep 2015 14:49

Watch out for the new accommodation at the Free Universty of Sydenham being advertised here by Savills

Pally · Post by **Pally** » 1 Sep 2015 19:21

admin wrote:Pally, this is a forum about Sydenham. Hopefully the content here will attract more people and posts. Town Pub is there in case people want to extend their conversations and/or be a little more brusque than in the community bits. When it becomes the tail wagging the dog and dissuades people from joining - I should try and do something.

The something doesn't add any restrictions. The guidelines remain the same. Its as free as ever. For newcomers who have yet to join STF the change will hopefully sharpens the focus on what the forum is primarily about. Bit of smoke and mirrors if you like.

Admin

Ahh thanks! Yes I WAS missing the point!

alburt.c · Post by **alburt.c** » 1 Sep 2015 23:14

i think vary good ideas here. keep childrens out of pub also, mr eagle like this ha ha.

biscuitman1978 · Post by **biscuitman1978** » 13 Nov 2015 20:20

I understand why admin has decided to make the Town Pub visible only to registered users.

The downside is that new threads are popping up in the Town Hall and Town Café which have nothing to do with Sydenham, presumably because the authors want them to be visible to everyone, regardless of whether they're logged in.

For example:
- viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14275
- viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14239
- viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14141

It's not the end of the world (and this remains a fantastic website for which admin deserves great credit), but as I use this forum for information and debate about Sydenham, as well as to arrange a game of football in Lower Sydenham, it is a little frustrating to see the Town Hall and Town Café diluted with discussion about other, wider topics which have nothing to do with SE26.

And yes, I'm aware that if It bothers me that much I could volunteer to be a moderator with the ability to shift threads from the Town Hall and Town Café to the Town Pub. But I think it would be simpler to make the Town Pub visible to all once again. I don't see why that would put off potential new users, who will be able to see that there is a reasonable level of discussion between many different people in the Town Hall and Town Café, unlike the 'repetitive and circuitous arguments between a small number of members' (as admin puts it) in the Town Pub.

Robin Orton · Post by **Robin Orton** » 13 Nov 2015 20:54

Sorry to have contributed to this 'dilution'; I shall self-censor accordingly in future. I rarely venture into the Town Pub nowadays; I don't find the atmosphere very conducive to friendly discussion.

Tim Lund · Post by **Tim Lund** » 14 Nov 2015 16:19

Two of those threads were ones I started.

The one referring to hedgehogs very much was Sydenham - we do have hedgehogs here, there are things we can do to help them, and an item about them, and Sydenham, did appear on Sky News.

The other, about favourite good causes, is not specifically about Sydenham, but then nor is the favourite music thread.

On balance, I accept Admin's reasons for making the Town Hall visible to logged in registered members only.

Pally · Post by **Pally** » 14 Nov 2015 16:38

Robin Orton wrote:Sorry to have contributed to this 'dilution'; I shall self-censor accordingly in future. I rarely venture into the Town Pub nowadays; I don't find the atmosphere very conducive to friendly discussion.

I have to agree with that. I occasionally comment but usually withdraw pretty quickly to avoid the boring repetition .....its a shame the pub can't seem to get itself into a "more conducive to open debate" sort of establishment! I know its a pub but I don't generally see quite the level of repetitive unpleasantness in real pubs ....its the safety of the web syndrome rather than face to face maybe!

mosy · Post by **mosy** » 14 Nov 2015 17:49

If I might leave The Pub to one side for a moment, I don't understand why "Offers" and "Wanted" are shown only under Board Index and not within Town Talk, so would be missed depending on which page someone has stored as their bookmark or favorite (M/s spelling). I also don't really like that offers and wanted ads including replies have a time-appearance limit. (I often remember that someone has asked but it's gone so can't find replies after the allotted period.) Maybe that is why people post requests in The Town Cafe, as just don't see Offers and Wanted, or know they don't stay up for long?

I have found a shortfall in that there's nowhere to discuss knitting patterns or last night's TV (football or soaps) and whatever else people discuss in a cafe (e.g. price of bread in xyz supermarket or new season veg just in our local shops), whereas The Pub has always been heavier political or news-related items - which I guess won't change overnight, although it is a good place for just letting off steam about the latest round of spending cuts or whatever. If The Town Cafe can be allowed to be more encompassing whether Sydenham focussed or not, more posters might join in since it is a local forum rather than remote universal Facebook or Twitter contacts.

It is my view that the Town Hall should be actively moderated to keep it factual, or to related opinions, as far as possible (as Admin currently does, albeit gently) because STF does reflect to some extent a "voice of Sydenham" as a community.

My tuppence-worth.

Robin Orton · Post by **Robin Orton** » 15 Nov 2015 09:17

The main point I was trying to make, admittedly rather obliquely, in my earlier post is that if the Town Café is to be restricted to Sydenham-only issues, there is no place on the Forum for friendly, constructive, illuminating, non-confrontational, mutually supportive conversation about general issues. I think that is a pity.

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