Embolden the top menu font or offer great value arm transplants?
I'll come back to you on that ...
Admin
The New Sydenham Website
Re: The New Sydenham Website
I'm with Rachael on this design issue.
Having two menu bars separated by the page title is bound to lead to confusion. Users are unlikely to look above the page title and focus on the menu bar below the title.
It took me a while to find the link to the forum the first few times I used the site, initially I was looking on the right, where the old link lived, but even then it took a while to go to the correct menu bar.
The black menu bar at the very top of google and gmail takes you to completely different services and the top bar in websites designed on Blogger take you to completely different blogs. Anything above the page title has reduced visibility.
Having two menu bars separated by the page title is bound to lead to confusion. Users are unlikely to look above the page title and focus on the menu bar below the title.
It took me a while to find the link to the forum the first few times I used the site, initially I was looking on the right, where the old link lived, but even then it took a while to go to the correct menu bar.
The black menu bar at the very top of google and gmail takes you to completely different services and the top bar in websites designed on Blogger take you to completely different blogs. Anything above the page title has reduced visibility.
Re: The New Sydenham Website
Yes, that is exactly the convention being applied here. Hence I'm confused by your confusionmichael wrote:The black menu bar at the very top of google and gmail takes you to completely different services and the top bar in websites designed on Blogger take you to completely different blogs. Anything above the page title has reduced visibility.
Admin
Re: The New Sydenham Website
The point is, you don't get two rows of tabs that both navigate you around the same website. You have pages within pages and it is confusing.
Michael's point is that on those other websites the top bar will navigate you away from that site to other sites. But your top bar navigates away from that PAGE to pages on the same site.
Michael's point is that on those other websites the top bar will navigate you away from that site to other sites. But your top bar navigates away from that PAGE to pages on the same site.
Re: The New Sydenham Website
A misunderstanding here. It isn't and has never been one website. We have always had a number of completely different websites:
* Sydenham Town (http://sydenham.org.uk)
* Sydenham Town Forum (http://forum.sydenham.org.uk)
* Sydenham TV (http://sydenham.tv)
* Sydenham Arts (http://sydenhamarts.com)
* Sydenham Business (http://se26.biz)
* Sydenham Network (http://se26.org)
These still operate under their own domain names (except SydArts). They are still different. That's why what we have now technically is called a MultiSite. They are more different than Googles own groupings. But a lot easier to administer than the old way.
Each site has its own different navigation menu. Each will develop independently and has a completely different focus. Hopefully under differing editorships. That is why the main (grey) menu for each site has to be dominant. The black menu is just an umbrella to connect the sites together. Exactly as Google does. Its just a point of reference and for some cross fertilisation.
However the websites do connect together in important ways - primarily through the Forum. That is why I placed a dominant right hand heavy black moving column to draw the eye to the forum on the frontpage of each of the above websites. It couldn't be more obvious short of a left handed fist coming out of the screen. Much more obvious to the casual user than the old menu link.
Any change of course causes some momentary confusion amongst regulars who have gone through the same sequence of key clicks for years. But now you may need fewer. More important, and please don't take this badly, you are not the people I did the work for -- there were indications that STF was becoming a talkingshop amongst a smaller but intense group. In danger of becoming just a clique. What is needed is to attract fresh blood to renew and grow community discussion and be a reference point for what's going on in Sydenham.
The old sites were not delivering that. The new sites do not yet. But they are a framework to build better ways into Sydenham Online. And remember that the Sydenham Town Websites is but one of these. 'More ...' in the top menu leads to Sydenham Town Centre, Sydenham Society, See 3 et al.
More and more websites also reflect this multiple navigation menus. The BBC is a prime example of this with its top menu (news, iplayer, tv, weather) linking to individual sites (or subsites if you wish). Indeed my first sketch of the new website started with a copy of the BBC website (sans all the clever expensive AJAX stuff).
Please stick with me. I do listen. I will bolden up the top menu. But you also need to understand what I'm trying to achieve. Fonts is tactical, structure is strategic. They sometimes conflict ...
Admin
* Sydenham Town (http://sydenham.org.uk)
* Sydenham Town Forum (http://forum.sydenham.org.uk)
* Sydenham TV (http://sydenham.tv)
* Sydenham Arts (http://sydenhamarts.com)
* Sydenham Business (http://se26.biz)
* Sydenham Network (http://se26.org)
These still operate under their own domain names (except SydArts). They are still different. That's why what we have now technically is called a MultiSite. They are more different than Googles own groupings. But a lot easier to administer than the old way.
Each site has its own different navigation menu. Each will develop independently and has a completely different focus. Hopefully under differing editorships. That is why the main (grey) menu for each site has to be dominant. The black menu is just an umbrella to connect the sites together. Exactly as Google does. Its just a point of reference and for some cross fertilisation.
However the websites do connect together in important ways - primarily through the Forum. That is why I placed a dominant right hand heavy black moving column to draw the eye to the forum on the frontpage of each of the above websites. It couldn't be more obvious short of a left handed fist coming out of the screen. Much more obvious to the casual user than the old menu link.
Any change of course causes some momentary confusion amongst regulars who have gone through the same sequence of key clicks for years. But now you may need fewer. More important, and please don't take this badly, you are not the people I did the work for -- there were indications that STF was becoming a talkingshop amongst a smaller but intense group. In danger of becoming just a clique. What is needed is to attract fresh blood to renew and grow community discussion and be a reference point for what's going on in Sydenham.
The old sites were not delivering that. The new sites do not yet. But they are a framework to build better ways into Sydenham Online. And remember that the Sydenham Town Websites is but one of these. 'More ...' in the top menu leads to Sydenham Town Centre, Sydenham Society, See 3 et al.
More and more websites also reflect this multiple navigation menus. The BBC is a prime example of this with its top menu (news, iplayer, tv, weather) linking to individual sites (or subsites if you wish). Indeed my first sketch of the new website started with a copy of the BBC website (sans all the clever expensive AJAX stuff).
Please stick with me. I do listen. I will bolden up the top menu. But you also need to understand what I'm trying to achieve. Fonts is tactical, structure is strategic. They sometimes conflict ...
Admin
Re: The New Sydenham Website
I didn't understand that they were separate sites - it makes more sense when you put it that way. And I also accept the point that current users are not the target audience for these changes. Some fresh blood on the forum would be welcome. And I use what I think of as the front page (the Town Centre home page) much more now that it is up-to-date. So the proof of the pudding will be in how easy new users find navigating the sites.
I really and truly did not notice the forum feed on the Town Centre page. I was quickly scanning the page across the top looking for a tab, and that's probably why. Someone new coming to the site will most likely get to the forum through the right-hand column.
I really and truly did not notice the forum feed on the Town Centre page. I was quickly scanning the page across the top looking for a tab, and that's probably why. Someone new coming to the site will most likely get to the forum through the right-hand column.
Re: The New Sydenham Website
I haven't had time to go through the stats since transition. Indeed its probably best to let things settle, search engines to re-index and stuff. One good sign is there has been a notable increase in Diary entries received.
I was talking to someone today about the idea of developing this into something a bit more punchier on the Town Centre frontpage. Something like three impact points:
* Sydenham Today
* Sydenham This Week
* Sydenham This Month
So people at a loose end can rush out of the door or put something in their own diary which will involve them in the community. Which means I do need help being more pro-active in getting diary entries. A more comprehensive Diary would be the foundation. And by the way that Diary is shareable by anyone with a website or PC. I want to push things but I don't want to be proprietorial about information. It should belong to us all.
So if you organise anything in Sydenham - http://sydenham.org.uk/diary should be in your diary.
If you have a website/blog about Sydenham you should steal it
Admin
I was talking to someone today about the idea of developing this into something a bit more punchier on the Town Centre frontpage. Something like three impact points:
* Sydenham Today
* Sydenham This Week
* Sydenham This Month
So people at a loose end can rush out of the door or put something in their own diary which will involve them in the community. Which means I do need help being more pro-active in getting diary entries. A more comprehensive Diary would be the foundation. And by the way that Diary is shareable by anyone with a website or PC. I want to push things but I don't want to be proprietorial about information. It should belong to us all.
So if you organise anything in Sydenham - http://sydenham.org.uk/diary should be in your diary.
If you have a website/blog about Sydenham you should steal it
Admin
Re: The New Sydenham Website
I have beefed up the top menu a little. I've kept the original here on the Forum for comparison. Click on Town Centre and you can see the difference. Its easier to read yet doesn't challenge the main menu. that's the sort of middle road I'm trying to find. At least on XP Firefox. Kubuntu Chromium is another story ...
Admin
Admin
Re: The New Sydenham Website
Have you been tinkering again, admin, or is it just me? I've got skinnier text than normal, double underlinings when I hover over hyperlinks and a funny little line if I hover just above the grey box where it says 'board index"
Re: The New Sydenham Website
Yes I have. If you look closely the top menu has changed. It is now a new inserted piece of responsive code. Previously I had merely IFRAMED the SydTown top menu which was nasty kludge. This is something I had to do before I can switch STF to a fully responsive forum theme. However, what you are seeing is a clash between my code and the phpBB code at the CSS level on hyperlink underlinings which ought to be simple to sort if I have time.
I don't see the font problem - but if I remember correctly you use Apple which is a foreign land for me. Is anybody else seeing this?
Question is do I fix the past or look to the future? Not nearly enough time for both. If only tablets and smartphones didn't exist life would be much simpler!
Admin
I don't see the font problem - but if I remember correctly you use Apple which is a foreign land for me. Is anybody else seeing this?
Question is do I fix the past or look to the future? Not nearly enough time for both. If only tablets and smartphones didn't exist life would be much simpler!
Admin
Re: The New Sydenham Website
I don't mind the font (might be both the fact that it's an Apple and Retina). The extra underlinings are a bit unpleasant but I haven't lost any functionality.
Re: The New Sydenham Website
I have sorted the underline problem. Do a forced refresh of: http://sydenham.org.uk/extras/styles.css
Then STF should behave better. If only I could find a fix for some members
Admin
Then STF should behave better. If only I could find a fix for some members
Admin
Re: The New Sydenham Website
Lovely, thanks admin.
Re: The New Sydenham Website
The light grey on the main menu's is difficult to read, can't you make it black or a darker grey? Maximum contrast is better for reading.
It works well though.
I've chosen the old theme simply because it's more legible.
It works well though.
I've chosen the old theme simply because it's more legible.
Re: The New Sydenham Website
See my note on the responsive thread - when I have time I will create a variant more suited to my tastes which, I think, is more in line with yours and HB's. Heavier shades of grey/black and less red. This light grey 'air' thingy is supposed to be all Apple-ey and cool. Indeed I think it looks great on a tablet and smartphone but I agree it is rubbish on my big desktop screen.
Coming not quite soon ... 3500 themes for 3500 members ...
Admin
Coming not quite soon ... 3500 themes for 3500 members ...
Admin
Re: The New Sydenham Website
I'm getting adverts appearing on the new version of the website. I don't understand why this is happening, as I have pop ups blocked. they are particularly creepy ads too, as they're clearly meant to be targeted because of the most recent sites I've visited or searches I've carried ... except ever so slightly wrong and hence a bit off kilter.
How can I prevent this? I believe this is the only website this happens on, as I've ticked all the appropriate don't track me settings on my phone.
How can I prevent this? I believe this is the only website this happens on, as I've ticked all the appropriate don't track me settings on my phone.
Re: The New Sydenham Website
Mary,
Both the forum and the Town website have always had adverts. Cos I don't like to be bombarded either they are placed discreetly at the bottom or the side of the page. And absolutely no pop ups.
If you are seeing something different then they are not coming from us. There is malware about that takes pages and inserts ads. We obviously can't do anything about that.
Can you be more specific about what is appearing where.
Admin
Both the forum and the Town website have always had adverts. Cos I don't like to be bombarded either they are placed discreetly at the bottom or the side of the page. And absolutely no pop ups.
If you are seeing something different then they are not coming from us. There is malware about that takes pages and inserts ads. We obviously can't do anything about that.
Can you be more specific about what is appearing where.
Admin
Re: The New Sydenham Website
I think you're right Admin. They ads are in the same place in the mobile as on the desktop. They just look SO much bigger and dominant on my mobile. The tracking is creepy though and I've ticked everything I can think of to stop that.
Re: The New Sydenham Website
I did change their shape from horizontal banners to rectangles so they would not stop the re-formatting as the width decreases but their area is about the same.
Google Adsense has changed. The ads used to be entirely based on the content of the page which quite often made them useful. Now it seems to be based on the e-commerce sites you have visited. This means you have already bought the product so not interested or decided not to - ditto.
Which means the tiny income we get is now tinier. I really thought of abandoning them in the redesign but its useful to me to keep tabs on how they work for my business clients. So you will have to continue to suffer, sorry.
Admin
Google Adsense has changed. The ads used to be entirely based on the content of the page which quite often made them useful. Now it seems to be based on the e-commerce sites you have visited. This means you have already bought the product so not interested or decided not to - ditto.
Which means the tiny income we get is now tinier. I really thought of abandoning them in the redesign but its useful to me to keep tabs on how they work for my business clients. So you will have to continue to suffer, sorry.
Admin