FT 18 April 2011 wrote:More than half of Britons plan to shop less often and more locally because of the high cost of fuel, according to the Institute of Grocery Distribution.
The UK food industry's research arm said its monthly analysis of grocery shopper sentiment showed that 52 per cent would shop less frequently if petrol prices continued to rise.
A similar proportion plan to drive less and use nearer shops
A silver lining for local shops
A silver lining for local shops
I happened to see this yesterday in an old newspaper lying around the office:
Re: A silver lining for local shops
Well maybe... On local food shops, a recent Independent article here: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 97788.html and a Telegraph one here: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/xa ... t-tesco/BC highlight comparisons between local vs supermarkets (usually distant but also usually with free car park).
Readers' comments levelled adversely at local shops (voiced on other forums) most difficult to counter were those which wanted specialist shops like bakers to open to suit a worker's daily hours including commute, so before 7.30 am and after 7.30 pm (perhaps selfishly irrespective of how long a shopkeeper had to work in excess of his opening hours for buying stocking baking butchering clearing up etc). Their point being, with some validity, that if a shop wasn't open (implying chose not to be open) to suit them then they either couldn't or wouldn't buy from it. A view expressed by some was that such specialist shops could have at least one late-night opening day which seems a fair request.
I think in Sydenham we are very fortunate with the quality and quantity of our local shops, including sympathy from London Transport(?) for short term parking proximate (i.e. outside, plus free car park at Girton Road assume council decision).
Unfortunately local shops generally can get a bad reputation in areas where they are not as good as here both for goods and car parking. One comment was that local food shops in their area had been effectively ousted by supermarket metro stores and the only food high street shops remaining were expensive delis and coffee shops. I guess a high street is what shoppers want it to be or allow it to become if good independent shops aren't supported by customers?
It would be interesting to know what proportion of late night (after 7pm) shopping here is by train travellers arriving home, or by car drivers, or locals on foot of course. The several very late night supermarkets and convenience stores (up to 10pm or 11pm) aren't usually flooded with customers so I think it's great that they stay open as a service. Presumably they wouldn't if it weren't worthwhile for them, possibly recouping business rates if that has an uglier head than lighting/staffing bills?
Apols for long post. I hope some is relevant at least, lol.
Readers' comments levelled adversely at local shops (voiced on other forums) most difficult to counter were those which wanted specialist shops like bakers to open to suit a worker's daily hours including commute, so before 7.30 am and after 7.30 pm (perhaps selfishly irrespective of how long a shopkeeper had to work in excess of his opening hours for buying stocking baking butchering clearing up etc). Their point being, with some validity, that if a shop wasn't open (implying chose not to be open) to suit them then they either couldn't or wouldn't buy from it. A view expressed by some was that such specialist shops could have at least one late-night opening day which seems a fair request.
I think in Sydenham we are very fortunate with the quality and quantity of our local shops, including sympathy from London Transport(?) for short term parking proximate (i.e. outside, plus free car park at Girton Road assume council decision).
Unfortunately local shops generally can get a bad reputation in areas where they are not as good as here both for goods and car parking. One comment was that local food shops in their area had been effectively ousted by supermarket metro stores and the only food high street shops remaining were expensive delis and coffee shops. I guess a high street is what shoppers want it to be or allow it to become if good independent shops aren't supported by customers?
It would be interesting to know what proportion of late night (after 7pm) shopping here is by train travellers arriving home, or by car drivers, or locals on foot of course. The several very late night supermarkets and convenience stores (up to 10pm or 11pm) aren't usually flooded with customers so I think it's great that they stay open as a service. Presumably they wouldn't if it weren't worthwhile for them, possibly recouping business rates if that has an uglier head than lighting/staffing bills?
Apols for long post. I hope some is relevant at least, lol.
Re: A silver lining for local shops
Mosy - you of course don't need to apologise to me for over long posts!
And yes - I think any comment on this forum giving direct impressions of our High Street shopping experience, comparing with comparable area, is relevant. My OP was bringing in a bit of background economics, which I always have in mind when thinking about the High Street, i.e. that one of its key relative advantages is that it better serves the non-motorist. As such rising petrol price should indeed be a silver-lining. It's also why I am sometimes frustrated when local traders focus on making Sydenham Road easier for motorists - yes, keep the Girton Road car park and half-hour short-term parking, but in the long run, Sydenham Road can never compete with the big supermarkets on pleasing the motorist.
The relative advantage for non-motorists also means that a major part of the Sydenham Road spend will be by people who can't afford a car, so it's bound to be a bit down market by comparison with some of the residential properties around. It's why I think it's pointless to complain about a proliferation of pound shops - especially sine some offer excellent value.
The other big economic factor is, as you wrote, the coming on the East London Line, which brings with it relatively affluent non-motorised potential customers, so I'm sure there's the opportunity for shops to get more business by opening later. Lee and I tried to trial a single evening late light opening in the run up to last Christmas, but we hit just about the worst weather possible, and it would have been better if the initiative had come from traders themselves.
And yes - I think any comment on this forum giving direct impressions of our High Street shopping experience, comparing with comparable area, is relevant. My OP was bringing in a bit of background economics, which I always have in mind when thinking about the High Street, i.e. that one of its key relative advantages is that it better serves the non-motorist. As such rising petrol price should indeed be a silver-lining. It's also why I am sometimes frustrated when local traders focus on making Sydenham Road easier for motorists - yes, keep the Girton Road car park and half-hour short-term parking, but in the long run, Sydenham Road can never compete with the big supermarkets on pleasing the motorist.
The relative advantage for non-motorists also means that a major part of the Sydenham Road spend will be by people who can't afford a car, so it's bound to be a bit down market by comparison with some of the residential properties around. It's why I think it's pointless to complain about a proliferation of pound shops - especially sine some offer excellent value.
The other big economic factor is, as you wrote, the coming on the East London Line, which brings with it relatively affluent non-motorised potential customers, so I'm sure there's the opportunity for shops to get more business by opening later. Lee and I tried to trial a single evening late light opening in the run up to last Christmas, but we hit just about the worst weather possible, and it would have been better if the initiative had come from traders themselves.
Re: A silver lining for local shops
I suspect that most people tell white lies about supporting local shops. They're a Good Thing, like fluffy bunnies and kittens.
I, on the other hand don't pretend. If supermarkets, shopping mall and the net are better, then let local shops go bust as far as i am concerned. Perhaps the shops will be converted to restaurants, homes or knocked down. I really dont care. Their former employees, meanwhile, can go and work for viable employers who sell things people actually want to buy.
*sits back and awaits abuse*
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
I, on the other hand don't pretend. If supermarkets, shopping mall and the net are better, then let local shops go bust as far as i am concerned. Perhaps the shops will be converted to restaurants, homes or knocked down. I really dont care. Their former employees, meanwhile, can go and work for viable employers who sell things people actually want to buy.
*sits back and awaits abuse*
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
Re: A silver lining for local shops
P.s no one expects independent shop owners to work 24/7. Thats what shift work is for. Organise your staff rotas according to the needs of your clients (i.e. passing commuter trade) or lose out to shops that do.
Why is sainburys busy in the evening? Because it's open when most of us finish work, and sells stuff people need or want. How very evil of them.......
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
Why is sainburys busy in the evening? Because it's open when most of us finish work, and sells stuff people need or want. How very evil of them.......
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
Re: A silver lining for local shops
No abuse from me dickp - it's what a lot of people think. Which Sainos? Forest Hill (off the train and bus down) or car to Bell Green? I agree about wishes being different from purchases, e.g. those who want "posh shops" to enhance the high street yet happily admit to shopping elsewhere even without knowing what local shops sell.
With MFC3 long established and newly established PFC (both excellent) as well as Co-op and Lidl, a trip to Sainos is surely only for specialist goods? But what as there are at least five other shops selling various seasonal veg and "round the world" goods.
If you are talking price, then yes, we all do comparative shopping (I do buy from local shops incidentally) but are you sure you have come away with the cheapest basketful if you discount bogofs (which you could still buy in any case) due to loss leading and hiking of prices?
Perhaps it's a mindset thing.
With MFC3 long established and newly established PFC (both excellent) as well as Co-op and Lidl, a trip to Sainos is surely only for specialist goods? But what as there are at least five other shops selling various seasonal veg and "round the world" goods.
If you are talking price, then yes, we all do comparative shopping (I do buy from local shops incidentally) but are you sure you have come away with the cheapest basketful if you discount bogofs (which you could still buy in any case) due to loss leading and hiking of prices?
Perhaps it's a mindset thing.
Re: A silver lining for local shops
I happily go to the local shops in Crystal Palace because they have things I want to buy - simple as that. I like the diversity of shops in CP and the fact that most aren't the usual high street dross. Long may it continue 
Re: A silver lining for local shops
Coop and tesco kirkdale for mid week top up, payless and the paper shop for essentials (although i will drop payless in a heartbeat the second sainsburys greyhound opens). Sainsburys bell green for car based bulky stuff (beer, dog food and bog rolls). M n S food beckneham if im passing and feel flush. The pet shop for specialist doggy stuff.
So i guess im like 95 per cent of local residents. A mixture of indepedent and chain - whatever is most convenient. For me - not the shop keeper.
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
So i guess im like 95 per cent of local residents. A mixture of indepedent and chain - whatever is most convenient. For me - not the shop keeper.
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
Re: A silver lining for local shops
What are the things you buy at CP Voyageur that you can't get in Syd? Just curious is all.
Used to go there a lot to the camping shop (gone a while back) as has the ski shop just behind Forest Hill station and the craft shop on Perry Vale opposite Woolston Road. Seems they all go
We used to have an art shop in Syd. There was one near the Catford Centre - not sure if that's still there. I guess such shops sell online now.
Used to go there a lot to the camping shop (gone a while back) as has the ski shop just behind Forest Hill station and the craft shop on Perry Vale opposite Woolston Road. Seems they all go
We used to have an art shop in Syd. There was one near the Catford Centre - not sure if that's still there. I guess such shops sell online now.Re: A silver lining for local shops
No abuse from me either. I'm well aware of how insufferable preachiness about local shops being a Good Thing is when they're not. That's why I prefer to think about the economics rather than the guilt trip, which I do also when explaining why I don't own a car - it's simply a choice that works for me, and I suspect could work for more people than realise it.dickp wrote:I suspect that most people tell white lies about supporting local shops. They're a Good Thing, like fluffy bunnies and kittens.
I, on the other hand don't pretend. If supermarkets, shopping mall and the net are better, then let local shops go bust as far as i am concerned. Perhaps the shops will be converted to restaurants, homes or knocked down. I really dont care. Their former employees, meanwhile, can go and work for viable employers who sell things people actually want to buy.
*sits back and awaits abuse*
I probably wouldn't be so keen on shops being converted to housing, or being knocked down, but I've no problem with them being converted to restaurants - or cafés. This is because of another bit of High Street economics - that the High Street can be a nice place to be. Even being a bit run down, I prefer being in Sydenham Road than in the aisles of Sainsbury's, because I know a number of the shop keepers, and people I'm likely to run into, and if I do, I can stop to talk. In one way or another, this is something that plenty of people will pay for, and if others wouldn't - well, live and let live. For High Street economics, it means you need to think more about selling time and space as well as goods. Restaurants and cafés are the obvious beneficiaries of this trend, but nail bars are too.
Re: A silver lining for local shops
I lived in Sydenham years ago but now live in CP. Local shops in the triangle furnish me with dresses, jewellry, booja booja ice cream, specialist cheeses and unusual spices in particular. I can't get all those from Saisburys.mosy wrote:What are the things you buy at CP Voyageur that you can't get in Syd? Just curious is all.
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Re: A silver lining for local shops...
... should cut down on the heating bills at least.
(I'll get my coat)
(I'll get my coat)