Sydenham School

[marianne]

I was surprised to read an article in South London Press yesterday about Sydenham School, Dartmouth Road. Apparently English Heritage have vetoed plans to demolish this monstrosity and want to give it a Grade II listing! It is a tall concrete block with absolutely no beauty (in my opinion). I live opposite this school and would love to see a low rise building based on the beautiful designs of the original school which stands next to it. Just because it was designed by Basil Spence (of concrete buildings fame) does not mean that it should not be rebuilt. It is just plain ugly!

[leenewham]

I have a friend over from El Salvador at the moment and we spent yesterday around the Barbican, one of the most famous examples of the Brutalist style of architecture. The Barbican is very well manicured and planted. There is a lot of green around it which looks great. Despite the building.

I think the Sydenham School building is the one of the best of Basil Spences post 1930's work. But that's from an architect who created prison like monstrosities like the now demolished (thankfully) Swiss Cottage Leisure Centre.

We have been talking a lot about modern buildings and it's interesting how someone from another side of the planet views them. With brutalist architecture, it often looks great on the original plans or when photographed when new and shiny. As soon as these buildings start to look dirty, are altered from their original plans in any way or they lose their landscaping they look awful and can help to create a sense of decay which leads to anti social behaviour.

But I agree Marianne, I don't think the Girls school is worthy of listing.

[marianne]

Thanks leenewham. I have to look at this building everyday from my window and apart from the fact that it blocks all our light it does look really decrepit. I have looked at many of the architect's buildings on the internet and they are indeed brutal....

[Likelife]

Are they for real? Its horrible inside and out! Five floors of old run down buildings - who and earth sees beauty in this and other ugly 60's/70's buildings!?

[bigbadwolf]

I don't live in that particular part of Sydenham, so I can't really comment on the blocks aesthetical intrusion.

But since Michael Gove has scrapped any future spending on the Building Schools for the Future scheme, you're just going to have to put up with it for now and the foreseeable future, Marianne.

Though why you choose to live within earshot of Sydenham Girls is beyond me.

[Eagle]

I agree with the last poster. Whatever plans Lewisham may have had you can forget it.

I remember the new block being built. My sister went there from 1956 when it was a Grammar School and just the older building was there.
How times have changed.

[dickp]

I went to school in two similar buildings, in Derby. They're also extremely prevalent in the South London suburbs. So they're not an endangered species of buildings.

As it happens, my old school was recently repaired (the flogged their playing fields to pay for it).

With a lot of paint and some TLC, the old buildings didn't look that bad. OK, not hugely pretty, but not eyesores either, like they used to be.

Which rather begs the question - if schools can be repaired without bulldozing them, why and earth should they be? And why were so many BfS schools unique, rather than built to a standard format? If you read up on the issue, you quickly realise that "unique" actually means "lined architects' pockets" and "have fundamental design flaws we now can't afford to change".

Can't say I'll miss BfS, tbh

[Rachael]

From what I understand, all the schools buildings programmes in Lewisham ARE going ahead. About half are complete and the rest are too far advanced in the planning to scrap.

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[michael]

There were many people who felt that Louise House was not worthy of listing, although others felt differently. At the end of the day listing is purely a decision for English Heritage and there is little that can be done to delist a building. Sometimes listing is a 'good thing' but in some cases it will preserve a building that is ugly, even if it has architectural merit.

Having been educated in this building I can say that it was not a particularly pleasant building to be educated in or to move around in (fairly narrow corridors lots of stairs and if I remember correctly lifts were reserved for staff) but that was 20 years ago so my memory may be a bit hazy. The point is that this building was hardly fit for purpose 20 years ago and it now becomes an obstacle to providing improved educational facilities, just as Louise House has reduced the leisure facilities planned for the new swimming pool.

But we need to weigh up education and leisure facilities for young people against the joy that future generations will get from admiring these great examples of architecture and their historical significance.

[LivesNearby]

What facilities did we lose as a result of listing Lousie House? From what I remember, we were going to get two pools, a gym, two studios, some community space and a cafe (depending on how many flats were built above), all of which are being delivered by the current design.

[michael]

Livesnearby,
You make a fair point but I as I remember it this was going to be the minimum specification for the pool planned on the double site, and the council was consulting about additional facilities that could be included. What we might have got can only be speculated about now.

We came very close to losing swimming on the site entirely but thanks to the council finding an additional £3m the pools are now going ahead with the basic specification. We also get to keep Louise House and the pools frontage.

[michael]

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id ... #g18123.q0

Jim Dowd (Lewisham West and Penge, Labour)
To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport when he expects to make a decision on the recommendation of English Heritage to list parts of the structure of Sydenham School; and what discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Education on the effect of this decision on the implementation of the Building Schools for the Future project at that school.

John Penrose (Parliamentary Under Secretary of State, Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport; Weston-Super-Mare, Conservative)
The evidence in relation to Sydenham School is being assessed and I expect to make a decision within the next six weeks. However, the process may take longer if additional scrutiny reveals issues that require further investigation. I have had no discussions with the Secretary of State for Education on the effect of a listing decision. The list is a register which recognises the special interest of buildings. In choosing buildings for addition to the list I cannot consider any factors other than their architectural or historic interest.