Parking : What's the answer?

[Checkmate]

It's very difficult for Mrs Checkmate to park her car anywhere near our property. We live close to a station, so inevitably, when she returns home from work around the 4pm mark, our road is full of commuters' vehicles.

Now our resident legal experts will point out that a taxed vehicle can park anywhere that is not covered by parking restrictions such as marked bays or yellow lines, which of course is completely true.

So what is the solution for residents who live near stations and have no chance of getting anywhere near their homes between 8am and 6pm??

Thoughts?

[Tim Lund]

You only have to ask the question, Checkmate, for the basic economic answer to present itself - some kind of privatisation of parking space. In practice this appears to mean Controlled Parking Zones, since I at least am aware of no other way it works in this country. Since enforcing a CPZ uses Council resources, it seems perfectly reasonable to me that residents should pay at least this amount, and since car owners tend to be better off, I think actually raising some revenue from CPZs would be progressive.

Of course there is an instant, vocal opposition to CPZs, as a result of which Lewisham Council has long since chosen to back off, and its position is to wait until a group of citizens in an area such as you live in get together to say 'we want a CPZ'. So that's your answer, really.

The longer term solution is to make some life choices which mean you go without owning your own car - which for people in many jobs is quite difficult. But some of us do manage it, and save a fair bit of money.

[simon]

We had a consultation on parking in Sydenham a couple of years ago and as I understand the council followed the wishes of residents. On my street, not close to the station, most of us were opposed to CPZ because there is not that much of a problem, at worst some people may have to park a street away and they thought that the occasional inconvenience was worth the saving of the CPZ fee. You and your neighbours may feel otherwise Checkmate so get on to your councillor, but you will have to pay.

[CaptainCarCrash]

If you have a lovely front garden with nice planters and a small rockery and wonderful shrubs and a nice Flemish bond garden wall? Kiss it all goodbye by hiring a couple of skips and getting to work on building your very own off street parking bay. Knock your garden wall down and store the bricks and any associated aggregate in a spot local to where you will park and set out your drive using a spade and remove the cherished weedless bowling green grade turf and throw it in the skip.

Use a 14lb sledge-hammer to smash the handmade rare Victorian engineering bricks into hardcore and place onto the area set out earlier where the turf was once envied by all and sundry resided.

Visit a local builders merchants and make your choice of material for said car to be parked on.

Brick paver's, crazy paving or slabs or (Tarmac, Chav Option), the choice is yours. You'll also need some nice edging stones to ensure your newly laid drive does not break away from its boundary. The sand I'd recommend for this work is coarse sharp sand with a 5-1 ratio mix commonly known as 5 and 1 which equates to 5 shovels of sand 1 shovel of cement and sets rock hard.

Depending on the size of the drive I can have it sorted for you within 8-12 days at a guesstimate of £6000-£10000.

Bargain.

[Wispy Wonder]

I live in Homecroft road, and parking is becoming a real pain. We've always had people who use the station, or shop in the high street, parking here which was fine, it's just that the station is so much busier now, due to the ELL extension, that it's becoming impossible to park. The particular problem with commuter parkers is that they're there all day, which means shoppers can't stop and shop either - which they previously did.

I spoke to the council about this yesterday, and they're aware of this problem near many of the stations on the extended line. Controlled parking is an option, but only if the residents start asking for one. I know we don't own the road, and that there will be a fees to pay for controlled parking, but plenty of other areas have successfully gone down this route - try parking anywhere near Lewisham station now.

Personally I'd like to see controls imposed, with two hours free parking for all, and permits for residents. As for parking on front gardens........hell will freeze over before my front gardens is paved to resemble Steptoes yard (the only non-chav option).

[CaptainCarCrash]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLlFAMvU4Yo

[Eagle]

Wispy
I know Homecroft well and have done so for 60 years. I have pictures of the road in the 60's with about 3 packed cars.
I 100% agree with you gardens are for plants and using the area for parking would downgrade vthe road.
Even at the Tredown end now not easy to Park.
I think you should all petition the council for CPZ. Only option worth considering.

[Tim Lund]

Mikecg

Thanks for bringing that up - and your quote for the work, which I guess should be compared with the annual cost of a resident's CPZ permit. In the first London Borough I found Googling - Haringey - it was £90 http://www.haringey.gov.uk/index/enviro ... e_list.htm.

An alternative to paying you for driveway parking would be to invest £2,500 in inflation linked government bonds* which would mean you keep the front garden, and your current parking space. So perhaps a more competitive quote is in order?

* Based on a real yield of 3.58 on long dated index linked gilts, which can be bought through National Savings, a leaflet about which you will be able to get from the Post Office.

[Wispy Wonder]

Eagle

I'd love to see pictures of Sydenham in the 60's, even sideroads like Homecroft. Ever thought of posting them on-line?

W. Wonder

[Annie]

hI wIspy
I sympathise with what you are saying about parking,the road i live in is near a private road, the residents are not "allowed" to park on their road,so they park on mine, I wouldn't mind this if it wasn't the fact that they choose for god knows what reason to park outside mine and my neighbours houses,there is plenty of space in my road but for absolutely selfish reasons they park to annoy me and my neighbours.

[Eagle]

Wispy
I will sort through photos and try to arrange.
I know parking is a nightmare now even at the end outside 71.
God forbid anyone would be allowed to use their front garden for parking and destroy the layout of the street. Already number 2 , which was extended many years ago , lowers the tone.
A pity I believe a number have been turned into flats as lovely 3 bedroom edwardian houses.
The two houses I know very well had bell pulls for the servant until recently.

I am afrais your best bet probably a CPZ , not ideal but better than now. If you get a CPZ please fight for all apaces for residents , otherwise they will probably make a number of spaces for metered parking.

Best wishes

[Willy]

I think the CPZs that allow parking all day except for 1 hour in the middle would work nicely, would still allow people to park to use the high street but deter the commuters.

[Marathon]

The trouble with CPZs is that they just move the problem onto neighbouring streets. Commuters who can no longer park in a road with a new CPZ move to the nearest non CPZ road and inconvenience those residents, who in turn have to have a CPZ in their road and so it snowballs. You end up with many hundreds of households having to pay for permits to park on their road because of the few who were originally inconvenienced. Don't get me wrong, I am sympathetic to your parking problems and I would be as unhappy as you if I couldn't park near to my house. But having experienced the 'creeping death' of a CPZ expansion when I lived in Southfields, started on a few roads within the immediate vicinity of the tube station and grew to encompass roads within a radius of about a mile over the course of 18 months, I really don't want to see that happening in Sydenham. Councils need to make the CPZ self funding; the costs for the road markings, road signs, traffic warden's pay etc all have to be covered, which means the initial CPZ would have to be large enough to recoup these costs. So the initial CPZ wouldn't be confined to just your road. I would therefore think very carefully about the implications of agitating for a CPZ. 

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Eagle]

Marathon whilst I do understand your comments it looks like good old Homecroft has got to the state that no other solution for the residents.

[Tim Lund]

Marathon:

When you write about 'creeping death' by CPZs in Southfields - LB Wandsworth, I think - I wonder how dead Southfields is, and the rest of its borough, compared with Sydenham and Lewisham; and I'd suggest it's more a creeping acceptance of the inevitable. For a flavour of the debate elsewhere in London, see this link - http://www.stroudgreen.org/discussion/2291/.

[JRobinson]

i think the answer is persuading people not to drive to the station!

I live in De Frene Rd, and walk to the station, but I know of one person who leaves home at the same time as me, drives from De Frene Rd to near the station, and then gets on the same train as me! Absolute madness!
(and no she doesn't appear to have a good reason, she's not dropping kids off on the way, nor does she appear disabled)

I suspect that there are people who live in lower Sydenham, or Penge or futher, who don't want to pay for a zone 4 travel card, but who then drive the short distance to Sydenham, to make the commute cheaper (!?!)

[bensonby]

raise petrol duty and Vehicle Excise Licenses.

[Tim Lund]

raise petrol duty and Vehicle Excise Licenses.

is the wrong answer - at least to this question. If you just want to raise more money from motorists, then maybe, but raising petrol duty is particularly unfair in rural areas. CPZs target the actual problem, they work, and even though the admin costs are much higher than other 'taxes' on motorists, CPZs should not be seen as such - it is more paying for the protection of (parking) property rights for residents.

Persuading people not to drive is a nice idea - that I have given a fair bit of thought to since my days as a transport activist. The problem is that people love their cars, invest a whole lot of identity in them, and very often only feel safe when in them. So the answer to this different question is to make the streets safer - both in actuality and perception, while waiting for market forces to prevail.

When I gave up car-ownership - not driving - nearly ten years ago, I calculated it saved me about £1,000 a year, and I would guess now the saving would be much greater. The supply side of the market forces should be the expansion of services such as StreetCar http://www.streetcar.co.uk/locationslist.aspx which now I look at it, I see has several more locations round here.

Why should anyone endure the stress and cost of car ownership, leaving a valuable possession outside, vulnerable to weather, accidents and crime? Beats me!

[Marathon]

Tim - I suspect that you have misunderstood my use of 'creeping death'. Southfields and Wandsworth are no vibrant communities than Sydenham or Lewisham. I used 'creeping death' as a way to describe the spread of the CPZ and that every household in Southfields was eventually drawn into it's clutches.

CPZs are not an inevitable part of life in London; your example from Stroud Green does not prove the case.  As I said previously, introducing a CPZ in Homecroft for the sake of a small number of residents will ultimately mean that most households in Sydenham will end up paying to park outside their homes. Don't forget that there would also be the hassle of organising permits for friends, family and tradespeople visiting your home.

Streetcar and other clubs are a great idea. They just don't suit some people, like me, and personally I don't find car ownership stressful. 

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Eagle]

The example of getting a car from De Frene to near station is outrageous. Do they not appreciate the hardship they are causing to residents and the terrible damage to the environment.
If they are able bodied hope they hold their head in shame.

With regards again to Homecroft I think the situation theie has now become dire. This road constructed about 1901 and I doubt if Sydenham had any cars at that time. The ambience of the road is completetly destroyed by all the cars , nose to tail. This road not built for cars.

Also why do people feel the need to use the EDF Substation next to 71 as a dump. Where were these people brought up for God's sake.