Blocking off Queensthorpe Road

[Thorpe resident]

I understand that the council are going ahead with the plan to block off Queensthorpe Road from Sydenham Road as part of the high street improvement scheme. I'm concerned that the pocket square created will become a magnet for the street drinkers and drug dealers that are already in the area. In theory it is an interesting idea but in reality I think it likely that the pocket square could become a threatening and intimidating place to walk through, particularly after dark. As the new square will be directly accessible from Queensthorpe Mews, there will be an increase in the already well documented incidents of drug taking and antisocial behaviour in that area. If this occurs it will be very difficult to persuade the council to reopen the junction as the new pelican crossing will be sited close by the existing T- junction.

I am also concerned about the effect on rush hour traffic in the morning; it takes long enough as it is to get onto any of the peripheral roads surrounding the Thorpes and blocking one of the main exits is surely going to make the problem worse.

If enough residents share my concerns perhaps we could petition the council to install a temporary barrier now to gauge the effect that a permanent closure of the junction may have?

[angela53]

Would it not be better to get the police to enforce the laws to deal with the "drug taking and antisocial behaviour" ?

[mummycat]

lol

[jonekt]

I also live in the thorpes, but am in favour of the square blocking off queensthorpe. I understand your concerns, but also think it could be fantastic if done properly. I think It could make many of the thorpe roads quieter and safer and make the high street much prettier. If a restaurant or cafe took on the curtain shop they could have outdoor seating in the area. I also think the more people and activity in the square the less drug- dealers etc would want to be there. I'm hoping if the centre of Sydenham becomes more attractive then this could transform this area. I've been to many of the meetings about the mews and nothing so far has made an impact. Perhaps this will, and for the better. I do hear your concerns though & I think it's up to us sydenhamites to use the councils suggestion and try and work it so it solves the mews problem rather than makes it worse. Easier said than done though!

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[Thorpe resident]

I have sent Emails to the property portfolio controllers of many cafe businesses including Cafe Nero and other local independent businesses including East Dulwich deli etc to try and entice them into 59 Sydenham Road (the old curtain shop) As you may be aware - "The Money Shop" have applied for permission for change of use to A2 (financial services) for this site - this business specialises in short term pay day loans. There have been objections to this including objections from the Sydenham society and so it would seem another meeting will be needed before the council can grant the necessary consent for this unwelcome business to one of the most prominent sites on the High Street.

[simon]

I seem to remember the Sydenham Society objected to a change of use to A2 for a bookmaker on the site and were succesful so it would seem inconsistent for them to allow change of use to A2 for something else. At least you can back a winner in a betting shop!

[mummycat]

..

[Eagle]

I agree we do not want Money Shop. This sort of establishment just puts poorer peopke into bigger debt.

Re earlier comments re possible violence etc. This should not be a reason the Police should arrest the offenders.

[Chris Best]

http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres ... final4.PDF
Above is the link to the Mayor and Cabinet report on the 20 January 2010 giving the feedback from the public consultation last year. There was an online petition to support the scheme and whilst I can understand some reservations closing off Queensthorpe Road, the vast majority supported this.

The challenge is make this corner a real asset to the high street and I recently chaired the objectors meeting to the planning application from The Money Shop. A number of points were made about the marketing of the corner site and how this fits in with the overall vision of the high street. Residents were very clear that the shop should retain the current planning use.

[leenewham]

I totally agree Eagle.

We need more diverse businesses in the high street. Unfortunately the new 'Popular' barbers (yet another place to get your hair cut) don't agree.

I think the pocket parks are the most important part of the road improvements. But they make far more sense when businesses make use of them. There are similar places in Northcross Road in Clapham which are partially used by cafe's. If the council are serious about the road improvements, then they need to ensure that they encourage the right sort of businesses to take advantage of the opportunities they are building into the scheme.

Allowing a money shop or a bookmakers (sorry Simon!) next to a pocket park is a wasted opportunity.

[biscuit]

"I understand that the council are going ahead with the plan to block off Queensthorpe Road from Sydenham Road as part of the high street improvement scheme. I'm concerned that the pocket square created will become a magnet for the street drinkers and drug dealers that are already in the area".

I think "Thorpe Resident's" concerns are valid. Not only is the "pocket park" likely to attract street drinkers and dealers, but it won't be long that it looks unsightly (Penge high street's "semi pocket park" looks shabby and under used) with a less than attractive display of flowers.

It's been reported that in general, footfall on our high street over the last few months has decreased so having another pocket area does not seem to hold any value, particularly as we already have one on the other side of the road and that's not used at all.

I agree with Lee, that keeping Queensthorpe road open to traffic gets my vote as it would ease some of the congestion on the high street and minimise the risk of dealers gathering.

[Rachael]

What are pocket parks for? Who uses them? Anyone seen any evidence that they are a good thing? Public spaces are only used by people if there is a clearly indicated use. A few benches and a planter will not make people use the space. No one is just going to sit down by the side of Sydenham Road to enjoy the view.

The success of a pocket park absolutely depends on the businesses bordering it, and the use they are allowed to make of the space. The absolute ideal is a cafe or bistro that will have outside tables. I think Lewisham should only be allowed to go ahead with the pocket park when the curtain shop has been secured by just such a business.

Look at Beckenham - a very pretty high street, and a local population with lots of disposable income, but the 'pocket park' in front of Sainsburys, is just grim. People just pass through. None of the businesses bordering it make any use of the space.

[Thorpe resident]

[quote="leenewham"]
"There are similar places in Northcross Road in Clapham which are partially used by cafe's."

I think you mean Northcote Road? Northcross Road is in East Dulwich.

Northcote Road is very different to Sydenham Road - for as long as I can remember (since the late eighties) Northcote Road has had quality restaurants and independent shops. If it was ever mainly pound shops, bookmakers, pawnbrokers and nail bars it was a long time ago.

Northcross Road in East Dulwich has improved massively over the last 15 years and the catalyst for this was the arrival of the Blue Mountain which is why I'm anxious that a decent cafe should come to 59 Sydenham Road.

The most cost effective improvement the council could make would be to subsidise the rental for the first year or two of a quality cafe business but this is unlikely! I believe a cafe business would do very well there as there is a lot of passing trade on the way to and from the station. The other possibility is of local residents clubbing together - if 200 residents put in £100 it would pay the first years rental - if it worked it would be a very small price to pay for improving our area. I know it would be very difficult to organise but it wouldn't be the first time that a residents association have achieved something like this. I understand that local residents in the Bellenden area of Peckham subsidised their local cafe in a similar way until the area's regeneration really took off.

[leenewham]

Yes, you are totally right, I always get the two names mixed up (like I did with the alfred/albert pub!). Nortcote road was always the nicer part of Clapham and I agree that it would make sense to encourage a business to make the most of a pocket square like the ones in Clapham.

[jonekt]

I didn't realise the money shop was looking to move into the old curtain shop. I think that would be a huge step backwards for the high street and Sydenham in general. Is there a petition out there to sign to object?

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[Tim Lund]

The Sydenham Society. among others, have objected to the planning application, and our local councillors are on the case. There was a meeting of objectors two or three weeks ago, and we await the officers' report when it comes before a planning committee. If you want to show your support, get in touch with Annabel through the (new) SydSoc site http://www.sydenhamsociety.com/contact-us/, and she will alert you to when this happens.